PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Solstice]

UNVOTE: Bell

~mist

[Solstice]

Lolol, you think I'm just gonna out it rn, I'm building a case.

Of course, I was sincere in my posts yesterday.
There's a lot of paperwork involved.
I have my catch, but I need to flesh out the evidence before I can present my findings.

VOTE: DEB

may potentially remove if this ends up going anywhere

because he's done about nothing yet today

on a related note i think ircher having him above null is kinda mmmmm but ill let it go because its barely there

~mist

[Solstice]

[Oh so Creature!scum wouldn't defend a partner but Bell!scum would defend Noraabear only if they're scum.]

This isn't a fair comparison and you are being disingenuous.
If Bell is scum he just fake claimed, I think scum would see if it sticks or if they have to bus.
My point about Bell, once again, is not about the defense itself but the nature of that defense, which seemed emotional.

[I wasn't serious.]

[You worded it like this: "Why would creature scum ever defend Bell here?", so i did not realize your point was related to the nature of the defense rather than the defense itself, though.]

So the reason I wasn't solving was because solving could get me killed.
I don't have that restriction anymore.

I don't crumb. I suck at crumbs.
DBT actually town cased me and argued it was a scum case.
Give me like 4 hours to write this shit. I had a first aid class that got rescheduled.

[oki! This is quite interesting -- so some of the changes in your play were possibly caused by having a PR. I'm excited]

~Morning

[MURDERCAT]

[You worded it like this: "Why would creature scum ever defend Bell here?", so i did not realize your point was related to the nature of the defense rather than the defense itself, though.]

I think Bell's reaction to my case was emotional.
Creature I think is being strategic.
Strategically I don't think that hard defending a partner makes a lot of sense in either case.
I don't think Creature, strategically, defends Bell as a partner there.
I don't think Bell, strategically, defends Noraa as a partner in response to my case.
But Bell might have reacted emotionally if and only if (in my mind) Noraa is a partner.

But I think Bell is quite possibly just town now.

[Bell]

The first mention of NK15 interaction was sadly, my vote on them for watching and waiting. I guess they were trying to utr but that backfired because I'm notorious for scum reading PR's as town because I don't tell the difference between scum, scum faking PR claims, and town+ town faking PR claims. It's a complex world and my philosophy is just to hope they aren't a PR and try to kill the scums. In retrospect there are players that actually can identify town PR's and kinda crush the scum team under their foot with them.
...I'm not one of those. Point being is I'm sorry UK15. Blaming their play isn't cool Pooky, it's on us for mistaken play. Likewise, I do think it is highly fucked up that you don't see anything wrong with Alisae leading the bad PR narrative after smoke filled chamber where I do believe he got blacklisted, by like, half the town in that game. My toog investigation just wasn't bad no matter how I think on it. I thought that if they were scum it would make sense because they flitted in and out of perception I don't think a scum team would think they were bad pick for kills. The speed on this shit RN should be a giant red flag to how this is going to go.

[Polar Bear Express]

[I believe what she's saying is that BM flipped town whereas Bell would be scum here -- so scum!Noraabear being concerned with the town!soft but ignoring the scum!claim is backwards.]

This isn't what I am saying, I am saying that if you are concerned about eliminating PRs you should be consistent with that, and Noraa isn't.

I trust hectic with my soul and vote.

-nornor

[Solstice]

[You worded it like this: "Why would creature scum ever defend Bell here?", so i did not realize your point was related to the nature of the defense rather than the defense itself, though.]

I think Bell's reaction to my case was emotional.
Creature I think is being strategic.
Strategically I don't think that hard defending a partner makes a lot of sense in either case.
I don't think Creature, strategically, defends Bell as a partner there.
I don't think Bell, strategically, defends Noraa as a partner in response to my case.
But Bell might have reacted emotionally if and only if (in my mind) Noraa is a partner.

But I think Bell is quite possibly just town now.

[Misty's getting me thinking about the Bell!town world.]

[I still don't like your Noraa case but I promise I'll do an individual read to try and analyze her sometime. The problem is I think that Noraa became obvscum towards the end of death curse rather than at the start and in the middle. It was really easy for her to coast to endgame in that one. There are parallels you can make (such as how her response to you in both games is kinda weak), but there she *had* to do it whereas here she opts to. And Noraa isn't immune to making bad omgus reads with little reasoning as town. Which is something you noted to mastina at the beginning of the game]

[I get that your point is kinda different from that -- for example, the "quote towers with 'scum' written below them" thing. Although the example you pointed to for that was just Noraabear pointing out a progression that makes you look bad with BM, not an actual case.]

[I think that I would consider Polarbears, Creature, Dunn, Spiffeh (maybe), and Ydrasse more than I already do if Bell is town.]

Official Vote Count 2.5

Polar Bear Express

(2): MURDERCAT, Toogeloo

Creature

: (1) Spiffeh

Bell

(5): Ircher, pichu, Solstice, Ydrasse, mastina

Double the Trouble

(1): Bell

Spiffeh

(1): Creature

Not Voting

(4): Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake, Dunnstral, Double the Trouble
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to execute.[/color]

[Ircher, Pichu, mastina, and Murdercatto are like my hardest townreads at the moment I think.]

[I don't think Hectic fakes an ego push (esp on town) as scum -- I feel pretty decent about that one]

[I like Ircher too much for him to be scum :L okay perhaps that's not good reasoning. I quite like his readslist but I don't think MC is scummy and that's pretty much the only major disagreement I have]

[Mastina I feel is probably just simply town and the way Ircher summarized it in his reads makes me feel even better about that since I am not personally familiar with her meta]

[After reviewing your ISO I feel like your case is genuine. I see why you believe what you believe, and i totally buy that you're not faking it. I just think you're town]

[Dunn's pop in defending Bell looks a little worse to me if Bell is town. Although not much worse because I guess he's just being fair. I want to say Spiffeh sticking to Creature is... slightly better (?) but I havent reread his interactions with Bell wagon yet]

Spoiler: this is what i sent Misty idk if I'll stick to it yet but for later reference

{Bell}
{Pichu, Murdercatto, mastina, Ircher}
-
{Ydrasse, Noraabear}
-
{Spiffeh, Double, Dunnstral}
{Dr Easy, Creature, Toogeloo}

~Morning

[MURDERCAT]

rather than at the start

What about when she scum slipped in the first 5 pages and like 8 townies nearly wagoned her to death??

[pichu]

So the reason I wasn't solving was because solving could get me killed.
I don't have that restriction anymore.

I don't crumb. I suck at crumbs.
DBT actually town cased me and argued it was a scum case.
Give me like 4 hours to write this shit. I had a first aid class that got rescheduled.

why didn't Bell bring this up when he first claimed? because he just thought of it now
also this isn't true he was trying to solve
it was just fake solving which is why you can tell his Noraa confidence/read is fake

don't let yourself be swayed Mornings and Mistys!!!

[pichu]

[I believe what she's saying is that BM flipped town whereas Bell would be scum here -- so scum!Noraabear being concerned with the town!soft but ignoring the scum!claim is backwards.]

This isn't what I am saying, I am saying that if you are concerned about eliminating PRs you should be consistent with that, and Noraa isn't.

I trust hectic with my soul and vote.

-nornor

you're the best noraa
you just need to convince gloria to get your vote back on Bell at some point

[pichu]

[I like Ircher's readslist lots]

agree on this one

and it's only mostly because the colors are pretty

~mist

i remember the first time i saw a Ircher readlist in a newbie game
he was scum but i'll never forget how much i loved it...

[Bell]

Netflix was the next person to pick up on NK15 by asking Alisae what they thought about them. No opinion was their reply. Dunstral rightly pointed out that, actually you could have an opinion on that slot as evidenced by me. Having an opinion on them for it. :3. It wasn't a good opinion moving on from my own shame. Maybe Dunstral even mind melded, sadly how he plays means I have no clue what he was thinking because he doesn't like to talk.
MC is next with a weird poast comment.
Ircher is next with a hi guys, votes a town PR post. 3rd or 4th.
Noraa just sorta ignores the Nk15 thing, which isn't strange fmpov.
Netflix jumps to Ircher. Not sure why.
Spiffeh follows Ircher instead of ooking at Nk15, not sure why.


Actually this is probably going to take upwards of 12 hours. My first aid class may or may not be rescheduled for later today so we'll see how that goes.
I'm just gunna keep posting till I'm dead I guess.

[pichu]

[You worded it like this: "Why would creature scum ever defend Bell here?", so i did not realize your point was related to the nature of the defense rather than the defense itself, though.]

I think Bell's reaction to my case was emotional.
Creature I think is being strategic.
Strategically I don't think that hard defending a partner makes a lot of sense in either case.
I don't think Creature, strategically, defends Bell as a partner there.
I don't think Bell, strategically, defends Noraa as a partner in response to my case.
But Bell might have reacted emotionally if and only if (in my mind) Noraa is a partner.

But I think Bell is quite possibly just town now.

this is why Grumpy Cat abandoned you flareon
what about the "emotional reaction" is real to you?
try and quantify it because i read the "fuck it" vote on you as very fake
and then you engage with him over several more pages and you think he's still just being emotional about locktowning Noraa while you try and get him to actually read you case?
it can't be a spur of the moment dumb thought process when it's over hours and many pages
then it becomes a faked/unnatural thought process that he's not reevaluating because he's scum

[Bell]

So if flavor would like me to stop at any point maybe he can ask his scum team to get me out of this train wreck of a game. Not that he probably didn't already do that. <3.

[Bell]

Keep posting Pichu, you're gunna look real good post game.

L'esprit de l'escalier: His ego is so big it couldn't be contained in alter ego.
That's why he has so many alts.

[pichu]

[Ircher, Pichu, mastina, and Murdercatto are like my hardest townreads at the moment I think.]

have a look at the Bell wagon and see how many of those hard townreads are on it Morning
+Ydrasse which you've called your strongest townread
it's a very town-motivated wagon
only slimy vote was Toog's but we're entering bus territory so let them bus if that's the case

[pichu]

Keep posting Pichu, you're gunna look real good post game.

L'esprit de l'escalier: His ego is so big it couldn't be contained in alter ego.
That's why he has so many alts.

i know i am :>

[Bell]

One alter ego*
oh well.
*chuckle*

[Bell]

If he's not a mason btw, he is probably scum.

[pichu]

mhm like that makes any logical sense

[MURDERCAT]

this is why Grumpy Cat abandoned you flareon
what about the "emotional reaction" is real to you?
try and quantify it because i read the "fuck it" vote on you as very fake
and then you engage with him over several more pages and you think he's still just being emotional about locktowning Noraa while you try and get him to actually read you case?
it can't be a spur of the moment dumb thought process when it's over hours and many pages
then it becomes a faked/unnatural thought process that he's not reevaluating because he's scum

I'm gunna pass on maybe killing another PR when FMPOV I am voting scum already, thanks
It could be fake, but I don't see the motivation to hard defend like that

[pichu]

it's a whiteknight
not every scum action has to have clear and obvious motivation
most of the time they're just trying to get by with fake reads
in this case Bell's reads and takes are so fake they've spewed him as scum however

[Bell]

Still here and pointing out that I have a reason I can't share until another game ends. discussion for post game tho.

[Bell]

I still dunno why Noraa isn't reacting to that though.
I guess she just think it would be unnatural for me not to think flavor would never pick her as town here.

[MURDERCAT]

I believe that Bell probably has that reason tbh
I think it's wrong but still