PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[MURDERCAT]

It occurred to me that when murdercat said it was a weird post that UK15 was omgusing me for voting a PR and that it was a weird post. Just not for the reasons I thought. Opps.

Not sure what this is referring to

[Double the Trouble]

If Alisae is scum reading me here Double Trouble could be scum after all

If Alisae is advocating a VIG.on me that slot should be flashwagoned immediately upon my flip

Idk if they are because I'm like 30 pages behind but there's no way Alisae sheds eir hard town read on me from Day 1 and advocates a vig on me because of my absence today

Why would Alisae scumreading you make them scum?
By the way, i'm neither confirming nor denying that Alisae scumreads you. I just want to know what you think.

- Norwee

[Spiffeh]

I do think DEB's counterclaim (even though it's not really a counter claim) is super town though? There's no reason to put yourself out there as scum, especially since it seems like Bell was already going down for anyway?

[Spiffeh]

I explained that above Norwee

[Spiffeh]

Or on the previous page

[Double the Trouble]

If Bell is claiming Tracker and DEB is claiming regular old cop then this is PERFECTLY REASONABLE PAIR OF INVESTIGATIVES ESPECIALLY WHEN WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH SCUM POWER THERE IS

I don't know why the fuck DEB would claim here without a guilty unless he is also a Tracker

Are you playing dumb or something? I think it's been pretty clear if you read at least a little bit of the game that they've both claimed Detective.
Bell no result on Toog Night 1.
DEB no result on on Ircher Night 1.

- Norwee

[MURDERCAT]

If not, ig this is something we'll need to reflect upon as a whole.

Fake Noraa giving herself an out again

[Spiffeh]

Wait really lol

[MURDERCAT]

I'm kind of tired, can we have just one scum flip? As a treat?

[Double the Trouble]

I'm kind of tired, can we have just one scum flip? As a treat?

Do you have a single other scumread than Noraa?
There are like 4 scum.

- Norwee

[MURDERCAT]

1: FL doesn't like to bus and would encourage his scumteam to not bus.
2: Creature has nothing to lose by defending Bell and everything to gain. If Bell is eliminated and flips scum, Creature is next on the chopping block even without him defending Bell. Even if he bussed Bell, he'd probably be the D3 elimination. Ergo, Creature has a motive to defend Bell. Defending Bell and failing doesn't change anything because Creature knows he was going down D3 anyway; defending Bell and succeeding does change something, because it saves scum from being eliminated today.
3: I may be mistaken but I seem to recall Creature as scum busses less often anyway and tends to defend scumbuddies.

Ok I find this logic compelling at least
I still don't really get what the fascination with creature is though.

[MURDERCAT]

STROKE FIRST

STRIKE HARD

NO MERCY

VOTE: Bell

ugh

[MURDERCAT]

Thaaaaat's what I thought.
@BELL you got some serious splaining to do.
I'm mad that you are making me sign a death warrant so early in the game, but no you aren't the detective, I am.
I'll give you the benefit for like two seconds if you can explain why you would fake claim detective.
Otherwise, I'm dropping the vote and hopefully the hammer.

ok I was vaguely aware this had happened. I don't really know what to make of it.
SvS is possible, but then when one doesn't die it's weird.
TvS is most likely and it's more likely to be Bell scum because duh.
TvT is possibly but really trolly.

Still think we can just let night kills sort this out, scum can't let detective continue to live I think.

[MURDERCAT]

Okay, so there are 2 detectives, a vig, a doctor, an informed player. Plus x-masons.
Does that even work.

Are either of you 1 shot?
Or are you full detectives?

[Spiffeh]

There being two detectives is far more unlikely than two different investigative roles

But I guess it's not impossible?

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: polar bears
honestly
worst person on the bell wagon

aw yeah

[MURDERCAT]

Reminder that the night kill thought Polar Bear was really town

The night kill was obv town, I don't think they died for quality of reads.
Scum maybe also took the chance to take out a nonmason if they knew doc was in the game.
The fact that *no* scum took me up on a chance to push Noraa is telling, IMO.

[MURDERCAT]

No, Creature has been /disengaged/ this game, which is a completely different aspect.

This is a reasonable point and I agree with it. I'm still town though.

[MURDERCAT]

@MURDERCAT: A bit late, I know. But do you have any specific examples of interactions that you town read from Spiffeh.

Probably better to not get into it at the moment

[Spiffeh]

As much as I'm spiteful at everyone scum reading me for "aVoIdInG tHe BeLl WaGoN" even though I have been obviously town throughout the game

Bell is probably scum and should be the vote for today

[Spiffeh]

Like I highly doubt Titus puts the same exact town investigative role itg

[Spiffeh]

Ok I'm gonna spend the rest of the Day catching up and convincing you nooblets that vigging me is a horrendous mistake!

[MURDERCAT]

In post 3319, MURDERCAT wrote:
Why would creature scum ever defend Bell here?

Can we stop asking questions like this? All this leads to is speculation; there are plenty reasons why scum would do this and plenty of reasons why town would do this.

In post 3320, MURDERCAT wrote:
I agree we should probably let Bell live a day FWIW

Counterclaims aside, I think one issue with Bell's claim is that Bell could be left alive for several days, and Bell could validly claim they are still alive because scum think Bell is still able to be limmed despite the claim. Furthermore, the role isn't super useful for town.

In post 3332, MURDERCAT wrote:
This wagon comp is bad, I don't like it. Unvote.

You think it's bad? Which votes (besides Toogeloo's) do you not like?

In post 3333, Spiffeh wrote:
I am serious it is almost worthy flashwagoning Toogeloo for that post alone

I'm not particularly convinced. Can you explain a bit more what makes that post exceptionally bad (as opposed to just bad which wouldn't warrant a flash wagon by itself.)

In post 3341, MURDERCAT wrote:
It's an excuse to change targets tomorrow because she knows Bell is flipping town

Okay, now this suggests you are townreading Bell. I do not particularly remember your thoughts on Bell prior to this post, but I would like to know what you are seeing in Bell that makes you think they are likely to flip town here.

The question was useful for me.
I think you are underestimating the power of detective. It is stronger than tracker.
I forget the exact wagon comp that caused me to say that, but I certainly don't like how Noraa is dancing around it while preparing for a town flip.
I have generally been TRing Bell throughout the game. Mostly it is a feeling that this day is going a lot like yesterday where I let players do their own thing and they (we) flipped a wagon that seemed kinda interesting but that I wasn't really sure on, despite the fact that I am convinced I have caught scum.

[pichu]

I still think it's unlikely Bell flips scum lol

What does that do to your preflip associatives guys?

upon Bellgreenflip:
you look a little better
Dunnstral looks a lot worse
Dunny should probably be shot
Bell won't flip green though

[pichu]

If Bell is claiming Tracker and DEB is claiming regular old cop then this is PERFECTLY REASONABLE PAIR OF INVESTIGATIVES ESPECIALLY WHEN WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH SCUM POWER THERE IS

I don't know why the fuck DEB would claim here without a guilty unless he is also a Tracker

how did you make this mistake
where did tracker/cop come from?