Newbie 2045: A Midwinter Night's Dream - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-3

Dreams in literature have often had a supernatural aspect to them, but also reflect a character's waking thoughts and actions. In Shakespeare's

Macbeth

, Lady Macbeth sleepwalks, reliving her murder of Duncan, in her own personally constructed hell.

petapan

(2): safebet222, Lunar Martian

BBmolla

(2): petapan, quiet

Mr Turtle

(1): unwnd

unwnd

(1): Illwei

Mikul

(1): BBmolla

quiet

(1): Mikul

Not Voting

(1): Mr Turtle

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: December 27, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2020-12-27 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Illwei]

Part of me wants to sus petapan for just asking questions, but It's early D1 and there's also...not much...else...to do...

[safebet222]

UNVOTE: bbmolla
VOTE: quiet

This is obvious newb town or nervous scum.

To properly roleplay my naïveté, it feels only right and natrual to sheep for unwnd. @unwnd, please be my guiding hand, teach me the ways of killing scum

This bothers me because it comes off as a half ass buddying attempt. It's also meant to install humor or emotion into his opening post. Maybe it's because he's new and trying to break in with a good intro or maybe to try and get empathy which is a typical scum tactic.

It's day 1, I'm not sure anything will have too much meaning

This post is the acknowledgement that he has played enough to know what RVS is. That most of the votes and wagons on dp1 are typically just to build pressure and to try and form reads. Also that implies that more often than not, it's hard to get anything of value. He would especially carry this ideas as a new player because dp1 can often yield nothing. The framing of that implies a basic understanding of how DP1 is suppose to function

Everything after that post is really defensive and nervous. Again this could be newb town or nervous scum. Then intro comes off as fake to me and a way to try and connect with the players for empathy and the follow up is very defensive, especially after unwnd brought up valid questions regarding to him trying to justify a rvs which he acknowledged he understood the point of (by saying DP1 typically yields nothing)

I disagree. You are premising quiet's supposed scummy appeal for empathy based on knowledge he easily could have gleaned from the wiki or the Mod's opening posts. He comes off to me more like someone who is trying his best to learn. Is that why you're hedging with the either/or statement?

[safebet222]

Part of me wants to sus petapan for just asking questions, but It's early D1 and there's also...not much...else...to do...

Why? Isn't RQS an alternative to RVS? It's plenty valid way to get this game started. In fact...

UNVOTE: petapan

I'm not keeping my vote on someone I think asked the best question so far this game.

[Mikul]

I disagree. You are premising quiet's supposed scummy appeal for empathy based on knowledge he easily could have gleaned from the wiki or the Mod's opening posts. He comes off to me more like someone who is trying his best to learn. Is that why you're hedging with the either/or statement?

You are conflating the 2. The opening post seemed as if he was trying to insert humor and make a very bad buddy attempt. "Look at me I'm a total newb, watch me sheep the guy that says he knows how to play....hahahah...hahah...right?". Usually when players (especially new ones) reach for an appeal like this, it's often to buy purchase town cred in the form of sympathy or empathy. Mafia often use this as a tactic to try and connect with town.

The second point is that he is aware of what rvs is. Whether that is from research, asking the mod, however you want to say he learned it. If he is aware of what RVS, he is also aware that it's random. If it's random, then why try to justify your vote and then become defensive about it. Why also hedge that vote with qualifiers.

Add those 2 points together and they are bothersome.

[unwnd]

I'm not sure what to think about unwnd... (Not sure on the pronoun to use for you, unwnd) He/She/They seem to jump from wanting to teach newbs to scum hunt to low-key sussing quiet for considering an RVS vote on him/her/them. Raises some suspicions.

I am a male

His response to me in particular didn't leave me with anything. He kinda just accepted what he did was wrong but I didn't have a stronger take on it quite yet

[safebet222]

I think understand your point now, Mikul. I still think its a natural reaction from newbtown to getting questioned by two experienced players by page 2. Defensive and awkwardly over explanatory.

[Mikul]

I think understand your point now, Mikul. I still think its a natural reaction from newbtown to getting questioned by two experienced players by page 2. Defensive and awkwardly over explanatory.

That's fair. That was the "or newb town"

It's either trying to buy a read with emotion or just literally scared of fucking up

I lean toward buying the read because based on his post, I don't think he's brand brand new

[Mikul]

also to note, he can be scared because he is mafia and getting pressure as well. So being scared doesn't mean he is town. It gives him at least better odds of being town, and the fear of playing in the game could be there. But as I said, it could also be that he thinks he fucked up as scum when unwnd pointed out that he was trying to justify his votes in the rvs stage and then he felt the need to be defensive and further explain that vote and his though process.

I buy un as town at the moment. Scum can play that way, but that seemed like a genuine attempt at hunting. Don't know him and have not seen him play, so that's just an initial thought of the interaction between them which is the only thing worth talking about so far this dp.

un - lean town
quiet - lean scum

[petapan]

UNVOTE: bbmolla
VOTE: quiet

This is obvious newb town or nervous scum.

To properly roleplay my naïveté, it feels only right and natrual to sheep for unwnd. @unwnd, please be my guiding hand, teach me the ways of killing scum

This bothers me because it comes off as a half ass buddying attempt. It's also meant to install humor or emotion into his opening post. Maybe it's because he's new and trying to break in with a good intro or maybe to try and get empathy which is a typical scum tactic.

It's day 1, I'm not sure anything will have too much meaning

This post is the acknowledgement that he has played enough to know what RVS is. That most of the votes and wagons on dp1 are typically just to build pressure and to try and form reads. Also that implies that more often than not, it's hard to get anything of value. He would especially carry this ideas as a new player because dp1 can often yield nothing. The framing of that implies a basic understanding of how DP1 is suppose to function

Everything after that post is really defensive and nervous. Again this could be newb town or nervous scum. Then intro comes off as fake to me and a way to try and connect with the players for empathy and the follow up is very defensive, especially after unwnd brought up valid questions regarding to him trying to justify a rvs which he acknowledged he understood the point of (by saying DP1 typically yields nothing)

you seem to have qualified that they are nervous scum or newb town quite a bit. it comes across as hedgng your bets. do you think he's more likely to be scum than town?

I didn't steal it because it was clever. I stole it because it's how I felt. In fact, you stole it from me pre-emptively.

I suppose I just don't like getting copied like that, even in RVS. I mean, especially when it was as awkward as your post was. Is being awkward in RVS common for newbie games? I have 3 games in my career in, 2 of them more than 2 years ago, and I subbed in to 2 of them. I don't remember the other being so awkward as this has been.

game openings are always awkward, but especially so in newbie games where often a lot of players won't quite have an idea of how to get things started. early game awkwardness often gets mistaken for scumminess.

Part of me wants to sus petapan for just asking questions, but It's early D1 and there's also...not much...else...to do...

Why? Isn't RQS an alternative to RVS? It's plenty valid way to get this game started. In fact...

UNVOTE: petapan

I'm not keeping my vote on someone I think asked the best question so far this game.

my questions are far from random. they're to encourage conversation and get people to think about what they're posting. i'm forming reads as i go, i'm just not going to out them yet. this is something of an experimental approach for me, i'm trying not to dominate the game conversation as much as i could in an attempt to let other people find their voices.

which of my questions was the "best" one, to you?

[safebet222]

would claiming an alignment matter to you?

No, but the way that unwnd opened with something specifically not declaring a side, and then followed that up with basically "woot let's do some scumhunting" is-

idk.

Then again (I, fun fact, did not notice page two for a bit) quiet is quite performative too, so- idk.

unwnd was performative in a calm...something else...sorta way, and quiet was performative in a "this is a fun little bit here imma do it" sorta way.

do the different responses make one of them more suspicious to you?

@petapan... This one

[petapan]

what'd you like about it?

[BBmolla]

VOTE: Lunar Martian

[safebet222]

It was the question that best asked someone to consider an interaction and make a read based on what happened. I think its the best way to move the game along.

I'd really like you to share your thoughts on the interaction between unwnd and quiet.

[safebet222]

Oh but you're keepimg your reads to yourself... Forgot.

[Illwei]

It was the question that best asked someone to consider an interaction and make a read based on what happened. I think its the best way to move the game along.

I took it as a question to ask me to explain myself further (kinda), not...what you said.

[quiet]

game openings are always awkward, but especially so in newbie games where often a lot of players won't quite have an idea of how to get things started. early game awkwardness often gets mistaken for scumminess.

How do things generally get started? How would you rate this game in terms of awkwardness out of ten? I think I'm having a good amount of fun, but there's also the sad reality that I'm decently awkward as a person.

As a side note, I'd never heard of RQS before, but after looking it up, I don't see there being much distinction between RQS and RVS in terms of outcome. It seems unrealistic to me that any scum is giving themselves away day1 (though information from day1 might inform future days, that I can understand). Am I missing something?

[Lunar Martian]

Hmmm.... I'm not experienced enough to say but the start of this game feels very awkward. It seems like people are trying to seem like they already know who the Mafia are but to me there's really not much to go on. Even the things other people are saying I think they're mostly reading too much in to. I'm not sure if faking confidence or being genuinely overconfident is an indication that people are Mafia though.

[quiet]

Oh, I totally believe some people here have a ton of Mafia experience. Just clicking through the profiles of a few people really briefly (is that allowed? frowned upon? I decided against reading into previous games, as that seems metagamey, and maybe a touch stalkery, but maybe that's a thing people do), it's clear some people have played a very reasonable number of games over years on this site.

[Illwei]

being genuinely overconfident is an indication that people are Mafia though.

The meta here is different than what I'm used to, and I'm still learning it, but IMO if someone is overconfident then that's usually something I'd read as Village (excluding all other factors) (so not really) because the Mafia know that whoever they're trying to push is a Villager, so they can't completely fake that "yeah I have analyzed this and they are 100% Scum get em guys"

of course this kinda, doesn't apply as much to more experienced players, but hey! it's a newbie game, right? *sweats*

[Mikul]

overconfidence is certainly not AI.

[unwnd]

I feel very confident about 3 reads right now. Where is everyone else at right now?

One of mine is a scumread.

[unwnd]

Quiet, how are you reading your other newbies right now?

[unwnd]

Part of me wants to sus petapan for just asking questions, but It's early D1 and there's also...not much...else...to do...

I say go with it. I have no read on peta right now and It'd help me as well. Generally speaking, I don't think it is ever too early or too late to sus someone. Scum can get caught close to RVS and I would even say sometimes they more often than not get caught there because they're less guarded.

[Illwei]

overconfidence is certainly not AI.

I'd say that overconfidence

isolated

is not AI, like claiming Scum Isolated is not AI. I mean, of course you can say that nothing Isolated is AI, depending.