PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Toogeloo]

The conundrum here is that Bell wim while DEB only countered and took off.

From my PoV, there are two clashing ideas.

1. Both are Detective. If it's a weak role, then it might be possible to have two in a power-lite town. With a roaming doc and two Cats that I know of, that is power-lite so far. But again it depends on the power of the Detective scan. Can it find a killer days afterwards, or just that night only? I'd like both Bell and DEB to clarify this.

2. Scum know town's PRs, which I think would be heinous. People seem to think that Leaf helped design town's power somehow, but no one seems to elaborate on where they know this from, and all I've seen is scum pick roles they want and mods balance town around that. In this case, scum want the Detective out, so Bell is either scum and was hoping to get DEB to claim, or DEB was planning to take claim Detective to eventually out the other Detective. Bell would be more likely scum than DEB in this scenario.

[Toogeloo]

Cats = VTs. Auto-corrections fml.

[MURDERCAT]

Can it find a killer days afterwards, or just that night only? I'd like both Bell and DEB to clarify this.

That night only is just specialized tracker right? I would assume for now it works on all future nights.

[MURDERCAT]

I've seen is scum pick roles they want and mods balance town around that

scum can choose rules, e.g. "scum knows all of the town PRs in the game"

[MURDERCAT]

there are two clashing ideas

Neither of these have to be true if they are both scum, fwiw.
That's why I think taking that possibility more seriously helps explain a lot.

[Toogeloo]

The scumstump may also submit two rules the moderators must follow when designing the setup. (Ex: No cops/gunsmiths, All town must be joats). Any broken rules will be rejected.

Ok... This is why people think scum know town's PRs? But it's still just an assumption. Their rules could be literally anything non-game breaking.

[MURDERCAT]

Yup, it is a possible explanation. Though it is certainly not broken and does make a lot of sense as a possible rule to submit.

[Solstice]

The scumstump may also submit two rules the moderators must follow when designing the setup. (Ex: No cops/gunsmiths, All town must be joats). Any broken rules will be rejected.

Ok... This is why people think scum know town's PRs? But it's still just an assumption. Their rules could be literally anything non-game breaking.

[I lean that scum knowing all of the PRs is too powerful. Although i guess technically FL could set one of scum's roles to "Informed Goon -- Knows All Town PRs", i bet that would get rejected]

[So no, I instead think it's possible that FL set a rule like "Town has two of the same PR". I don't really think scum knows which PRs we have. And even if they do, it doesnt really make sense to crumb the exact same role as one of those PRs, does it?]

[So we are in a world where there are 2 town detectives and it's cause scum wanted there to be a duplicate PR -- or Bell is just scum that got particularly unlucky/lucky with his claim. It's also possible they're both scum and their motives are beyond our comprehension. Really it just makes sense to kill Bell cause he's scummy and I can't think of everything anyway. I wrestle a lot with how weird this situation is but like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

~Morning

[Ircher]

With a roaming doc and two Cats that I know of, that is power-lite so far.

We also have a vigilante as evidenced by the NK15 kill and at least one mason in the setup.

[MURDERCAT]

I think they are scum together. FL sensed Bell was going down and tried to get some town cred for DEB out of it.
When DEB doesn't die, you have another scum say "why kill DEB he's useless, detective isn't that strong."
Mechwise, that is the simplest explanation to me.

[MURDERCAT]

Readwise, I still think that Bell is AtEing super hard and I'm hesitant to SR him. Maybe he cares more after being drafted? Maybe he is doing better with coaching? I've never played with Bell scum so I don't know how far this is off his baseline.

[Double the Trouble]

I hate the # of times Norwee/Ali has jumped on and off this wagon. It looks so damn scummy.

-nornor

So are you going to explain why it's scummy or just whine about it?

- Norwee

[Double the Trouble]

I hate the # of times Norwee/Ali has jumped on and off this wagon. It looks so damn scummy.

-nornor

turn ur brain on because scum don’t act this way. Period. U delusional polar bear.

[MURDERCAT]

was that a coordinated Norwee/Ali strike lol

[Solstice]

I think they are scum together. FL sensed Bell was going down and tried to get some town cred for DEB out of it.
When DEB doesn't die, you have another scum say "why kill DEB he's useless, detective isn't that strong."
Mechwise, that is the simplest explanation to me.

[Yeah that's possible. to me, that feels a little too risky for the relatively kinda low benefit it gives, but it would clear up some unlikelihoods and does fit with the late crumbs/claims]

Readwise, I still think that Bell is AtEing super hard and I'm hesitant to SR him. Maybe he cares more after being drafted? Maybe he is doing better with coaching? I've never played with Bell scum so I don't know how far this is off his baseline.

[yeah that's why i was leaning so hard into the TvT tinfoiling. There is a very strange Bell playing game. maybe caused by something related to his team, yeah. And someone, think it was BM maybe? Made a big deal out of metas potentially being shifted as a result of FL coaching. So who knows]

~Morning

[NorwegianboyEE]

was that a coordinated Norwee/Ali strike lol

Now you know the power of our 2x aggression bonus.

- Norwee

[mastina]

[If Bell is scum and Easy town, what are the odds he fakeclaims Detective and then there's an actual detective? That just seems like it shouldn't happen.]

Which is why my theory is that both are scum doing a counterclaim gambit, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I don't think DEB should be eliminated D3, maybe not even D4.

[Ignoring any scumreads and just focusing on the claims, they can both be town without issue]
~Morning

Sure, it's possible that, setup-wise, they're both town. I could see two town detectives, one town detective, or no town detective, all as possible in this setup.

I happen to believe that it's most likely 0 or 1, that yes the counterclaim of detective does mean that at least one of the claims is from scum.

And I also happen to believe that, by play, Bell is pretty clearly scum and DEB's possible scum but of a lesser certainty.

[Bell]

Yup, I woke up at 3:40PM today.
This is fine.

[mastina]

pichu do you think bell's wim/ate/walling is out of his scumrange yet?

From my experience with Bell, it's the opposite, with those things being indicators that he's scum here.

this is weird because im starting to like bell :/

Liking a player does not mean that they are town.

A player who is playing in their scum meta, not playing to their town meta, being hyper-defensive, and who even after being 'free' to scumhunt is producing lackluster scumhunting, no matter how much you may like them, is still far more likely to be scum.

hey guys how's the scum catching going?

Given that we have Bell pretty much caught, and Creature pretty much caught, and a very solid townbloc, with a fairly good POE pool?

Pretty damn well!

[Double the Trouble]

Yup, I woke up at 3:40PM today.
This is fine.

this is rly relatable snoopy

[Flavor Leaf]

Same with the 3:40

[mastina]

[Masons, doctor, vig, informed are already on the table. There are only so many power roles that can remain]
~Morning

Eh, depends. The original Titus WIFOM City setup (which wasn't a treestump game) had like 3 VTs in a 22-player game.
Titus vs Alisae had 4 VTs in a 17-player game.
camn's revenge had 3 VTs in a 13-player game.

All of those games represent a low-VT threshold, and thus, a high-PR threshold.

But on the other hand.
Pine vs Alisae had 14 VTs in a 24-player game.
Turn of camn had 6 VTs in a 17-player game.

Both of those represent a higher-VT threshold, and thus, a lower-PR threshold.

Whether the game is VT heavy or PR heavy isn't something that I feel like we can judge on D2 with the few flips/claims we have so far.

[mastina]

[And everyone's gonna make fun of me for this if Bell flips scum, but i

really

don't see what the rush is/was when Bell seems to have the desire to create content for us. That's good if he's scum or town.]
~Morning

I mean sure, but like...I've been reading Bell's posts of 'content'.

They certainly are remarkably unremarkable in containing just about no useable info.

Almost like he's scum and doesn't want to give too much away.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Let's

unvote Bell

I think DEB is scum here. The pieces fit a lot better.

I'll explain in a bit.

[Spiffeh]

hi Pooky