PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Solstice]

[those takes are a tad outdated cause I dont think Bell has given us anything that could really qualify as content since then]

[A DAMN SHAME TOO]

[pedit: Pooky is about to blow our fucking minds]

~Morning

[mastina]

hard-leashing vig to dunn-spiff-noraa for possible shots

would be good if you tell us who out of those 3 are like baddies.

Pookie I don't mean to offend and I realize that you know the masons and have their feedback, but like.

This vig pool is pretty damn atrociously bad?

Noraa this game, aside from MURDERCAT's very very lackluster crusade that largely runs contrary to the facts, is looking pretty town overall here and is a very very low chance of being scum.

Spiffeh this game, aside from paranoia theories of him being the scumteam's deepscum, is pretty overwhelmingly town. Vigging Spiffeh is explicitly hero-vigging, as in a hero-shot that if it landed on scum, sure, would be devastating to the scum...but do you know what the term hero-vigging implies? That most of the shots hit town that would be borderline nightkill-by-scum material. As in, a shot so atrociously bad it could almost be a scum nightkill, made from paranoia of thinking that the player who is probably town is so good as scum that just in the small chance they're scum you should shoot there.

Literally the only name in there which could be scum is Dunnstral--and Dunnstral being scum requires that 2/3 of {MURDERCAT, Dr Easy Bake, Toogeloo} are town. Which, granted. Isn't impossible. In fact is fully plausible. But the vig pool containing two slots that're almost certainly town and one slot which could be scum...isn't exactly a good vig pool.

[Spiffeh]

wow mastina I didn't realize the only thing I had to do to get you to town read me was to stop trying

[Bell]

I'm out of gas guys. Sorry.
I need a break.

With my experience of Bell, I'm highly survivalistic, while being generally unmotivated when excluded from people who demand control without question.

I was just helping DBT look without thinking too much about it. I do that. I'm both supportive and unsupportive. When it looks like someone is trying to crunch though, I usually try to help them with their own efforts.
I dunno what Easy bake cake is. I dunno if he's a detective, some other role adjacent enough to push me or if he's just scum. Ask him about it.

I wrote out a toilet paper read wall, but deleted it. It was just a bunch of fence sitting which just showed I'm just not there yet.

[mastina]

I'll be super duper frustrated if I start going back to solving rn and find the thread locked.

Going back to solving implies that you ever started in the first place, something I've yet to see.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think what happened here was.

Bell played it super soft. so Flava Flav thought he was a mason, so he sent his mafia rolecop over to check Bell. Found out he was actually a detective.

When Pichu pushed for Bell to get elimd - heavy pressure comes down on Bell, Flava Flav sends DEB to crumb detective ahead of Bell claiming detective in order to set up the CC.

DEB is the probly the LHF of the Scum-Team so it makes sense for Flava Flav to send him to do the CC.

Look at the timing and wording of the crumb. It doesn't even look like DEB wrote the crumb if you compare it to the rest of his ISO. The timing of it being on day 2 as pressure was coming down on Bell is very suspect imo - if you are crumbing why wouldn't you crumb it on D1?

If this theory of what happened is correct - it's likely we are at Pichu-town, Bell-town, Deb-scum.

So I'm thinking this.

We elim DEB today, if DEB flips red vig kills ???
if DEB flips green, vig kills Bell?

[Bell]

I'll be super duper frustrated if I start going back to solving rn and find the thread locked.

Going back to solving implies that you ever started in the first place, something I've yet to see.

Didn't BM do like the same thing.

[Dunnstral]

So I'm thinking this.

We elim DEB today, if DEB flips red vig kills ???
if DEB flips green, vig kills Bell?

So you think it's impossible for both to be town?

[mastina]

Coincidentally went to iso Toogeloo and they said the same thing, seems towny

Problem with this viewpoint, Dunn.

So you have Creature as scum--this is fine.

You are saying Bell is town--not inherently a crime.

You obviously know/'know' yourself to be town/'town'.

You're thinking that Toog's stance is townie.

Okay, then.

Where's the rest of the scum?

Creature being scum isn't enough; there'd be three others, and you're townreading two of the by far most likely scum candidates.

Where's the other three scum if you are town and think Bell is town and think Toog is townie?

[Solstice]

[What was the point of having scum CC Bell, though? What do they gain from that? That is what i struggle with.]

~Morning

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

So you think it's impossible for both to be town?

i find DEB's crumb timing to be very convenient and susp af.

like if you are going to crumb your PR, you do it d1, you don't do it on d2. it makes no sense to me except as rolecop setting up a CC.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

[What was the point of having scum CC Bell, though? What do they gain from that? That is what i struggle with.]

~Morning

it's the extra little push that gets bell over the hump, and also after bell flips green DEB can always play the 2-detectives angle - the wifom trap is specifically "why would I counter-claim a dead man?"

I think their goal was to just hardpush bell through there and demoralize the town, which would imply people on the higher end of the influence pool are scum.

I think specifically Spiff. His reaction did not feel like a real reaction to me.

[Spiffeh]

I am town therefore all of my reactions are real tyvm

[Blade Dancer]

Official Vote Count 2.13

Polar Bear Express

(1): Double the Trouble

Creature

: (4) Spiffeh, Solstice, Dunnstral, Toogelo

Bell

(6): Ircher, pichu, Ydrasse, mastina, Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake

Spiffeh

(1): Creature

Pichu

(1): Bell

Not Voting

(1): MURDERCAT
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to execute.

MURDERCAT is VLA until 12/17. MURDERCAT did not specify a time, so I'll use noon PST.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-12-22 18:21:00)

[/color]

[mastina]

I'm giving DEB a pass for now though since their claim is believable as well

Again.

Four scum in the game.

You're townreading literally every one of the most likely candidates aside from Creature.

My POE pool, for instance, is, explicitly, {Creature, Bell | Dr Easy Bake, Toogeloo, you}.

With me townreading, in most cases quite strongly, literally every other player in the game.

Creature is scum, sure.

Where's the other 3? Because you're giving a pass to literally all of Bell/DEB/Toogeloo.

I seriously need a break guys.

A break implies there was ever content in the first place that you were delivering.

I've yet to see evidence of any such content. (Granted, still have ~20 pages to read, butstill, if taking a break, that certainly isn't promising.)

[Bell]

1 word, 6 syllables

epistemology. I like that.

A lot of the masonries credibiliy is wrapped up in my wagon, so I can buy that, but was more thinking along the lines of, I don't care, let me read. Stand aside you're on the schedule but you're 3rd on my list.
I didn't actually think he would just go away though..

[Dunnstral]

Okay, then.

Where's the rest of the scum?

Creature being scum isn't enough; there'd be three others, and you're townreading two of the by far most likely scum candidates.

Where's the other three scum if you are town and think Bell is town and think Toog is townie?

So you think it's impossible for both to be town?

i find DEB's crumb timing to be very convenient and susp af.

like if you are going to crumb your PR, you do it d1, you don't do it on d2. it makes no sense to me except as rolecop setting up a CC.

OK. DEB still hasn't done anything except claim a role and then vanish and prodge anyway,

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake

[Bell]

Well, he didn't really he just ended up voting me instead.

Nope, my tanks out. Consider it perfectionist. Or that's what I'm gunna say to protect my ego anyway.

[Dunnstral]

[What was the point of having scum CC Bell, though? What do they gain from that? That is what i struggle with.]

~Morning

it's the extra little push that gets bell over the hump, and also after bell flips green DEB can always play the 2-detectives angle - the wifom trap is specifically "why would I counter-claim a dead man?"

I think their goal was to just hardpush bell through there and demoralize the town, which would imply people on the higher end of the influence pool are scum.

I think specifically Spiff. His reaction did not feel like a real reaction to me.

Take a look at Creature

[Solstice]

[What was the point of having scum CC Bell, though? What do they gain from that? That is what i struggle with.]

~Morning

it's the extra little push that gets bell over the hump, and also after bell flips green DEB can always play the 2-detectives angle - the wifom trap is specifically "why would I counter-claim a dead man?"

I think their goal was to just hardpush bell through there and demoralize the town, which would imply people on the higher end of the influence pool are scum.

I think specifically Spiff. His reaction did not feel like a real reaction to me.

[I guess it's a WIFOM trap, sure though. It seems like a really bad play. Would they really expect to survive it? Idk, I guess, at worst, they lose DEB and trade him for a detective. Which is pretty convenient when DEB was probably the lowest scum on people's lists. And it does explain the unlikeliness of the double detectives]

[I was falsely assuming DEB crumbed a lot earlier than he did. And there's no astronomically unlikely "DEB accidentally crumbed the role Bell happened to be" problem if a rolecop is involved. So that definitely has merit as a potential explanation i suppose yeah. more thinking required]

~Morning

[mastina]

Dunny must be third impostor i think
probably town

Gutwise?

I'm actually inclined to agree with this take specifically.

I realize it is very easy for Dunnstral to be genuinely scum, taking largely scum-favoring viewpoints.

But my gut actually is telling me that Dunnstral is just mostly-wrong-town.

[Spiffeh]

Pooky I will vote for Dr Easy Bake if you take myself and noraa hydra out of the vig pool and replace them with Creature and another player of your choosing

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lol if u r townie af the vig wont shoot you anyway

[Spiffeh]

Sure but I’m trying to maximize the vig’s opportunity at actually hitting scum and your current pool doesn’t do that

[mastina]

[quote="In post 3840, Solstice"i see no drawbacks to waiting at least 1-2 days to see if you actually start to deliver on solving. And if Bell is trolling us it'll be evident by how he doesn't solve]
~Morning[/quote]I'll be holding this to you btw. You posted that on Monday; it's two days later, Wednesday, now.

If Bell hasn't delivered on the solving in that time, then, chances are...he won't. You could maybe be extra-generous and extend it into tomorrow, Thursday, but like...if he doesn't deliver on the solving by then, chances are, he never will.

hard-leashing vig to dunn-spiff-noraa for possible shots

would be good if you tell us who out of those 3 are like baddies.

this is a horrible idea as I think we're all town!
(Dunn less so)

More or less agreed. Dunn's the only name in the three which I think

could

be scum, but gutwise, I happen to think that he's more likely to be town.