PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Flavor Leaf]

Performative to a fault, girl, my only scum losses this year were from my return game where I was guiltied, and almost got out of it, and one where I PT slipped after a damn near perfect game.

Also, I replaced into a dead slot.

However, i did replace out of scum gams earlier i the year became it was just too much in a row/simultaneaous. I spent the first 6 months of covid era off site.

I am performative to a plus.

[Polar Bear Express]

idk the way he gave Bell the benefit of the doubt and checked with everyone if two detectives was outrageous first seemed towny to me

A) that sounds like scum checking their exit plan to make sure people are open minded when bell flips town detective.

B) crumb timing on D2 after bell takes pressure makes more sense as scum pre-empting a claim by using rolecop info. If he was a real detective he should've crumbed on D1

C) His actual crumb doesn't look like it was written by him - word choice, sentence structure does not match with rest of ISO, strongly suspect Flava Flav wrote that crumb after original crumb was deemed "unsatisfactory".

D) This is exactly the kind of gambit Flava Flav loves pulling. Nothing Bell has done feels like it was coached by Flava Flav.

UNVOTE:

for now but I agree with MT, if I don’t see Death Curse Bell soon, my vote is going right back on him.

[pichu]

:[
ftr if DEB does actually get launched today and flips scum:
the vig should still 100% be shooting Bell
Bell is scum irrespective of all this claim stuff because of his content and takes and AtE all being obvscum
I TRUST YOU TO KILL BELL VIG
(if he escapes today)

[Double the Trouble]

:[
ftr if DEB does actually get launched today and flips scum:
the vig should still 100% be shooting Bell
Bell is scum irrespective of all this claim stuff because of his content and takes and AtE all being obvscum
I TRUST YOU TO KILL BELL VIG
(if he escapes today)

why is this scum v scum ever aaaaaaaaaah

[Double the Trouble]

its makes no sense it doesn't even need to happen and if it does how is bell/deb going to justify his slot being alive longer than it should be

[Polar Bear Express]

I still don't really get what the fascination with creature is though.

It's called scumhunting; Creature is scum so it's my job to hunt him and pressure him even when voting elsewhere due to hunting elsewhere because there's four scum rather than just one.

You should try it some time*.

(*I am aware MURDERCAT is consistently casing Polar Bear Express as scum. Aside from me disagreeing with the core points of his case, there's also the fact that MURDERCAT doesn't seem to be doing anything aside from the Polar Bear Express case, and my burn here is relating to that lack of diversity in reads and stances backed by reasons. By which, I mean, as far as I can tell, MURDERCAT doesn't have anything resembling a four-man guess for a scumteam. He's pressuring primarily one slot, for reasons that I feel are wrong. Rather than applying pressure in multiple areas with multiple reads.)

I thought his reaction to the Bell wagon seemed townie but yeah, it still is bothering me that he’s so confibiased on us but I think Toog saying “Creature is always a good flip” regardless of Creature’s alignment, is seriously ick. I would vote Toog before either Murderkitty or Creature.

[pichu]

yeah i agree with you i think DEB is town
but if DEB does flip scum i'd much sooner believe this is some weird gambit over what Bell has done this game coming from town

[Double the Trouble]

yeah i agree with you i think DEB is town
but if DEB does flip scum i'd much sooner believe this is some weird gambit over what Bell has done this game coming from town

if deb is scum just leave it alone

[Double the Trouble]

these things reveal themselves eventually if they come from scum anyways

[Polar Bear Express]

But also can we kill Creature

Why is everyone gunning for Creature? Someone explain this to me.

Because he's obvscum noraa
can't you see it for yourself? KEKW

Did you miss what DT said about him asking about the detective thing? You think he’d fake that as scum?

[Double the Trouble]

But also can we kill Creature

Why is everyone gunning for Creature? Someone explain this to me.

Because he's obvscum noraa
can't you see it for yourself? KEKW

Did you miss what DT said about him asking about the detective thing? You think he’d fake that as scum?

quote? don't recall waht ur talking about off the top of my head

[pichu]

eh i disagree just based on my read there
anyways the order should be Bell->DEB and never DEB->Bell
i'm sorry Pooky but i really really disagree with you on Bell
i'll make some propaganda posters advocating why we should be thundernuking him

[MURDERCAT]

We elim DEB today, if DEB flips red vig kills ???
if DEB flips green, vig kills Bell?

This theory actually makes sense, and doesn't require Bell to be scum.
This seems like a good plan to me, there's low risk because Bell dies anyway but it's a more direct test of both SvS and weird scum CC.
Also it's not like DEB is towning it up, whereas I think Bell kinda is.

[Polar Bear Express]

But also can we kill Creature

Why is everyone gunning for Creature? Someone explain this to me.

Because he's obvscum noraa
can't you see it for yourself? KEKW

Okay it wasn’t you who said that. Someone said that Creature asking people about the detective claims were town indicative. I thought it was you guys.

[pichu]

who would you vote for if not Bell Gloria?

[mastina]

She's remained active but allowed her reads to ebb and flow with the current game state.

Do explain because I've made my stances pretty damn abundantly clear with zero waffling on them aside from my reads in the poe that aren't harder scumreads. (Which, obviously, are reads that, no fucking shit I'm going to have them ebb and flow off of the current gamestate, because explicitly, they are reads that I waver on and am unsure on so literally any development in the game can sway them to one side or the other. Those being, mostly, you and Dunnstral.)

One mislynch on Day 1 that she headlines, and her town reads are becoming scum reads because she can read the room and see what people want.

Most of my townreads are very much still my townreads.

There are a grand total of three reads of mine that were townreads D1 that on D2 are not: you, Dunnstral, and Bell.

This of course being necessary because there's four scum in the game and I had three scumreads--meaning that I was, inherently, by fundamental nature of the setup, definitively wrong on at least one townread, and unless all three of my scumreads were accurate, probably two. And if 2/3 of my scumreads were wrong, then there could in fact be three wrong townreads that I had on D1.

I reevaluated my reads because I had a very damn good reason to do so, and

most

of my townreads remain as townreads, with only three of them being reevaluated as something other than a townread...

...And even then? Even then, one of those reads is Dunnstral, who I still have an overall right now gut-townread on, where while he's in the POE pool of six where 4/6 of them are scum, he's the towniest of the six that I happen to think is least-likely to be scum.

She is actively lurking and letting the Bell/DEB thing happen.

So...which of my posts are 'actively lurking'? Which of my posts are 'letting' the Bell/DEB thing happen? Because I've made my stance there clear enough.

I feel both players are likely to be scum, with the whole detective-detective thing being scum theater.
I feel that, while both claims could theoretically be town in the setup, that at least one of them is going to be scum, and personally feel the most likely scenario is that both are scum (although I have acknowledged that is a tough sell to make).
I have stated that, by play, I feel like both slots are scum.
I have also said that, push come to shove, if I were forced to trust one claim over another, that Bell's far more likely scum than DEB.
But I've also said that I think both are scum.

I've given reasons for believing Bell to be scum.
I've continued giving reasons for Creature to be scum.
I've explained my reasons for my reads on the players I am townreading pretty extensively as well as going into detail on the reads in the poe pool pretty extensively.
Pretty much the only read I haven't explained is the DEB read, which...well, because it's DEB...there's not much to work with there in terms of explaining because it's DEB.

If that's your definition of 'active lurking', I'd love to see what your definition of being a proactive gamesolver is.

I think Creature should absolutely be the vig shot, maybe Toogeloo should be under consideration too?

Agreed.

A much better vig pool would be {Creature, Toogeloo, MURDERCAT, Dunnstral}, honestly.

With the IC getting to trim it down to three.
(I personally think Dunnstral's more likely to be town than scum overall, but I do understand that, yes, he is still in the poe pool so he wouldn't be a horrible shot. Not the best shot, but not the worst shot, either.)

So you have the burden of convincing me that
1. Noraa is town

The burden of proof is on the accuser (because it's innocent until proven guilty, not vice-versa)--and you've made your accusations with your proof...that multiple players have addressed and at least some have countered. In my case, I went into the details for why I felt your case on Polar Bear Express is wrong.

You conveniently never actually went and addressed this.

You made your case and I explained why I felt it was flawed.
You've not made a second case or an explanation for why your first case wasn't flawed.

This is Noraa's catchup from PAGE 115
How are people town reading this

I don't see anything scum in that catchup. It's not as strong of a catchup as is humanly possible, giving less stances than it could and not addressing literally everything. But this is Noraa we're talking about, a slot whose fundamental playstyle is, innately, one where the strongest catchup humanly possible is innately impossible to achieve. In terms of Noraa making a catchup post, in fact, this is basically almost peak-performance, in being one of the best possible catchup posts for Noraa humanly possible. In that sense, it looks town.

And the burden of proof for showing and demonstrating why it isn't lies on you.

[Polar Bear Express]

who would you vote for if not Bell Gloria?

Pretty much only on Creature because he counters Bell.

The fact that he's almost always a good lynch is bonus.

What townie says that? You either scumread Creature or you don’t. I really disliked this.

[MURDERCAT]

I really don't see why MURDERCAT is getting townread. There is precisely one reason I can think of for MURDERCAT to be town, and unless that one reason is the reason others are townreading him, I legit don't get why people think he is town.

I don't believe that you are having this thought process but not having it lead to it's natural conclusion in regards to the overall game state.
Pooky has more info than us so why are you not following his lead?
You are not being subtle, it reads as super fake to me. Are you hoping scum sorts me for you? Because otherwise I think you are just scum.

[MURDERCAT]

PIIIIIICHUUUUUUUUU

like Creature is definitely LHF town-town - literally everybody wants him dead.

there is no universe he flips red.

The inverse of this is also what makes Noraa scummy FWIW

[mastina]

I thought I saw high volume posting from her this Day but maybe not I still have to catch up on the last 20 pages

I would indeed encourage you to check up on Toogeloo's statements.

My iso is pretty damn dense, so I realize it's not necessarily easy to locate, but this was my first post of D2.

So this is my iso from D2 so far.

Judge for yourself if that's 'active lurking' which is 'letting things happen'.

(Hint; my iso for this day phase is almost as long as my iso for last day phase, in less time, and with less players, and with less pages.
Suffice to say: Toog's claim is utter bullshit. )

[MURDERCAT]

D) This is exactly the kind of gambit Flava Flav loves pulling. Nothing Bell has done feels like it was coached by Flava Flav.

Flavor Leaf likes trading 1 scum for 1 town detective for no reason when he has a night kill and the doctor is dead?
Idunno bro

^this is a very good point pooky
Bell was under a lot of suspicion even after the detective claim and there were no counterwagons
scum!DEB does not need to CC when Bell's death was marked anyway and risk town doing a trade

I agree with this but I'm also just down to yeet both of them now and I think we possibly gain a lot if DEB is scum

[MURDERCAT]

Well, I’ve played with scum!Deb a few times and he spammed the thread with absolute nonsense. I think him not doing that here could possibly be town!indicative. I think his slot is resolvable.

Suddenly I am really happy to do DEB first

[MURDERCAT]

:[
ftr if DEB does actually get launched today and flips scum:
the vig should still 100% be shooting Bell
Bell is scum irrespective of all this claim stuff because of his content and takes and AtE all being obvscum
I TRUST YOU TO KILL BELL VIG
(if he escapes today)

Nah let Bell live for a day for sure in that case

[mastina]

Thinking it's Toog and mastina

pichu potential powerwolf

I don't understand the townreads on Dunn?

Seriously--why are people townreading this?

Especially people who have played with Creature before, who have familiarity with him.

Why are you townreading this?

Because this level of emptiness and with these sorts of takes is not Creature's town meta.

Do you want me to actually link you town-Creature games and scum-Creature games for comparison? (Admittedly the most recent ones would be largely secondhand meta where I wouldn't be able to really give indepth laser-point-accuracy takes, but just in general, this is so obviously not Creature as town that I am overwhelmingly confident I've no need to be so laser-point-accurate, that just pointing in the general direction will be enough for the hammer to blow the point in.)

[mastina]

Idk I thought the claims were switched or something

Like, for everyone scumreading players for being noncommittal on DEB/Bell.
That aren't scumreading Creature.

Creature's posts are literally as noncommittal as it gets.

He is adamantly refusing to take a stance on DEB/Bell at all.