Newbie 2045: A Midwinter Night's Dream - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-4

Literary dreams have inspired visual artists. One example, Dante's Dream by Dante Gabriel Rossetti, was inspired by Dante Alighieri's poem

La Vita Nuova

. In the dream, he is led to the death-bed of Beatrice Portinari, who was the object of his unfulfilled love. The painting is layered with symbolism of life, hope, purity and love.

quiet

(2): Mikul, petapan

BBmolla

(2): quiet, unwnd

unwnd

(1): Illwei

safebet222

(1): BBmolla

petapan

(1): Lunar Martian

Not Voting

(2): safebet222, Mr Turtle

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: December 27, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2020-12-27 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- Mr Turtle has been prodded.
-

[Illwei]

Other bolded, could you explain what you meant here? I think you got a bit sidetracked in your own thought, or felt an excessive need to explain. Try to simplify this for me.

I'm not going to come out and be like "ah yeah [Name] is scum I feel it let's kill 'em" because I'm- well, most of that is wrong, so this is a ...preemptive? Excuse? (those seem like the right words, but they...may not be?) for me possibly not giving solid scumreads =P I'm not going to go around accusing people based on their behaviors, I'm going to let my PoE do that for me?

Ah, that kinda clears it up for me. What I saw was you saying that I was dependant on other's reads, and was confused by that. coolio.

They seem like an easy target because of their playstyle. they seem relaxed, confident, and throwing their vote around: completely different than what everyone so far has shown in the game. It's easy to look at that, and go "that's different, kill them," especially in a game where people might be more okay doing that because they're less experienced.
I'm saying this as someone who is tempted to vote them out.

P.S. I grew up with the term "Elim" meaning Mafia, so every time I see something referring to an "Elim", I do a double take =P. (don't try to educate me, I understand, just...still doing...mental...rearranging...

[Illwei]

I also apparently haven't been keeping track of the votes very well, I thought that BBmola had 3 votes at the time of unwnd's vote...but...now he's only at 2... ... hm.

[BBmolla]

What happens if they lock up? Then we just run the risk of mis-limming a townie who was too scared to do anything. They don't see pressure the same way we do, and I may be biased in that regard but that's what I believe to be true. I

I guess my point is that's better than the alternative. I've had too many games that activity dies because we get stuck in RVS/RQS because people are too afraid to take any stances so everyone defaults to politeness and activity dies and we lose.

Conflict I tell ya, that's what it's all about

[BBmolla]

like, you have null reads on more than half the game, who is your one confident read and what have I been doing different than all others?

[BBmolla]

A sea of null reads is a dream for scum

I'm hunting the scum who are pleasantly wading there now

Safebet is a safe bet

[safebet222]

I'm here everyone... really busy day between work and kids... will post later. In the meantime...

@BBMolla... is this vote cause I've been gone for almost 24 hours? I kind of feel that you're voting whoever has been away the longest.

[BBmolla]

I'm here everyone... really busy day between work and kids... will post later. In the meantime...

@BBMolla... is this vote cause I've been gone for almost 24 hours? I kind of feel that you're voting whoever has been away the longest.

I'd be voting Turtle then

What have you done this game?

[unwnd]

Going to bide my time before I respond to you BBMolla. I understand your disposition but I don't think you can force others to make content.

[BBmolla]

Going to bide my time before I respond to you BBMolla. I understand your disposition but I don't think you can force others to make content.

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything lol

[Lunar Martian]

I'm going to VOTE: BBmolla

This feels like opportunistically pressuring the quiet newbies to see if we crack, and just placing a vote for the sake of it rather than based on searching for Mafia.

[Lunar Martian]

I think quiet, Illwei, and unwnd are all town btw

[BBmolla]

I'm going to VOTE: BBmolla

This feels like opportunistically pressuring the quiet newbies to see if we crack, and just placing a vote for the sake of it rather than based on searching for Mafia.

what would I have done differently if I were searching for mafia?

[Illwei]

Eh, I'll

VOTE: Lunar Martian

I vote people all the time when I'm village not for the reason that I think they're scum.

Pressuring people so they talk is valid. "opportunistically pressuring the quiet newbies to see if we crack" is...that. I agree though that true newbies might lock up or start acting...idk. scummy, whether or not they are actually scummy. self pres votes, full defense, start getting all visibly stressed and whatnot.

[safebet222]

I'm here everyone... really busy day between work and kids... will post later. In the meantime...

@BBMolla... is this vote cause I've been gone for almost 24 hours? I kind of feel that you're voting whoever has been away the longest.

I'd be voting Turtle then

What have you done this game?

I was being serious BB... you surely aren't ever voting for a person who hasn't posted once and has been prodded and I believe I was the player that had been missing the longest at the time of your vote besides Turtle, as was Lunar. Nonetheless, it's a fair question. I have town read quiet and petapan and slightly sussed unwnd... besides that, not much. I've been busy.

[quiet]

@BBMolla... is this vote cause I've been gone for almost 24 hours? I kind of feel that you're voting whoever has been away the longest.

Seems to me that BBMolla is doing the same thing they did with the last vote:

UNVOTE:
lunar vote was just for reactions and I'm relatively satisfied

moving on to a better vote
VOTE: safebet222

It def. got a reaction this time too

[BBmolla]

Peta name the scumteam, go

[petapan]

Do you think it would have been better to give that response after he voted/sused me?

well, in your post after this you say you're leaning town on him. i would expect if you believe a player is town and voting you, you'd want to correct them on their misconception. to ignore it seemed like it was potentially an attempt to avoid pressure.

Illwei: Towny town to me. Seems relaxed, putting his reads out there, I don't agree with everything he says, but I see town in the way he says it.

unwnd was performative in a calm...something else...sorta way, and quiet was performative in a "this is a fun little bit here imma do it" sorta way.

Really like this read.

Part of me wants to sus petapan for just asking questions, but It's early D1 and there's also...not much...else...to do...

This also seems towny to me, even though I don't sus petapan for questions.

of course this kinda, doesn't apply as much to more experienced players, but hey! it's a newbie game, right? *sweats*

I don't think scum ever wants to be sweating day1.

you say he "seems relaxed", but then like him because he makes a joke about sweating in one of his posts? isn't that a bit of a contradiction? why do you like the first read? to me, it didn't really offer much, which is why i asked him to follow up on it.

BBmola's playstyle confuses me, petapan likes questions and pressure, unwnd goes hard, where is Mr. Turtle, Mikul leans town to me, I want to like safebet222's defense of me, but I could be getting pocketed over that, and y'all experienced people make me paranoid.

there's a bit of a tendency toward information over analysis here.

There are a few things misconstrued (not sure if intentionally) in his recent posts as well.

Curious what you think was misconstrued. You are likely right, I just want to know which bits I got wrong.

Also, thoughts on the fact that BBMolla seems to (at least on my quick skim) generally play this way, with short confident posts? I also have him scummy, but I'm very open to the possibility that I'm off on that.

although 82 does seem a bit like busywork, the fact that quiet was willing to do that background research and observe that bbmolla behaves similarly in games as either alignment is a nice touch, and i'm not sure a newbie scum player would go to the trouble of making such an observation.




for the record, i have experience with bbmolla, and i would say his play so far is basically normal for him. in fact, his consistency is remarkable, given that we haven't been in a game together for 5 years or so. some things never change, i guess. in the past, i was able to townread him fairly easily, but i also can't recall if i've ever seem him as scum, and his playstyle is a fairly easy one to duplicate as scum (i know, because i typically play the same way, or used to, anyway). so far in this game, i don't feel one way or the other about anything he's done so far.

[petapan]

Peta name the scumteam, go

give me a damn minute, fella

[safebet222]

This might be the only post I'm gonna be able to get out for another 24, so this is where I'm at...

Town - In no particular order...

quiet - I thought his nervous and erratic reaction to getting questioned about his behavior so early leans newbtown.
petapan - I read peta's efforts as both attempting to move the game along and attempting to instill confidence in the newer players to follow their reads to their logical conclusions and act. +Town
BBmolla - I think BB just has a different way to get the game moving... I haven't done any meta dives on anyone, but if I'm to believe the thread, it seems to serve him well. I also think his question to me was fair... I haven't done much... lean town for now.
Illwei - I think they have been thoughtful and genuine in their responses so far, I also agree with the statement behind their recent vote, I just don't think there's anything necessarily scummy about reacting adversely to the way BB is playing.
Lunar - Lunar has been pretty awkward and I tend to see that as newbtown...

Scum -

Mikul - Slight scum read on Mikul as I think his interaction with me about the quiet/unwnd interactions was hedging his bets, as peta pointed out. And that is pretty much all its done during the game.

unwnd - He's obviously pinging me with what I perceive as a condescending attitude... it strikes me as interesting that he only has one scum read and 3 town reads with a fistfull of nulls (as BB pointed out), the BB scum read is disingenuous... In my little experience, BB's method is common around this site, I would imagine that unwnd knows this too, and unwnd's play overall pings me as an attempt at being a powerwolf.

VOTE: unwnd

I am usually able to read the thread throughout the day and may be able to sneak in a response here and there... but definitely will be able to post around this same time tomorrow.

[petapan]

I'm not going to try and find scum as much, I'm just going to try and find village (even though that seems like it might be hard in a new place with newer players (luckily these newer players aren't actually clueless like the people I'm used to lol)

interesting. i find that while newer players are often confusing or awkward, they are usually honest to a fault and therefore easier to read than experienced players, who are usually going to be skilled liars. your approach is valid, though, a lot of very good players i know prefer to work through process of elimination. do you have any townreads yet, though?


in 92 you express that bbmolla's playstyle is not AI and say that you think he seems like an easy target, but in 101 say you're tempted to vote him out anyway. why is that?

I think he joined this newbie for the same reason I did, for a low-stress environment where he could sit back and observe instead of pushing lims.

partly that, partly because i thought it'd be fun to be in one of these with you, partly because i've developed an interest in giving newbies a good introduction to this website (where previously i felt my play was way too intense for newbie games).

I'm going to VOTE: BBmolla

This feels like opportunistically pressuring the quiet newbies to see if we crack, and just placing a vote for the sake of it rather than based on searching for Mafia.

isn't pressuring people a valid way of trying to find mafia, though? how is it opportunistic to push people no one else is voting?

I think quiet, Illwei, and unwnd are all town btw

why do you think those players are town, exactly?

Lunar - Lunar has been pretty awkward and I tend to see that as newbtown...

why's awkwardness a newbie town-tell for you, exactly? why can't it come from scum as well?



i thought there was a lot of very hesitant language in illwei's posts, and it definitely pinged me a bit, but i don't mind his vote on lunar martian, and as i don't suspect quiet as much, i think that's a fine place for my vote.

VOTE: lunar martian

lunar's posts come across very stilted, they aren't saying much, 67 is filler-y, and i don't like their vote against BBmolla.

[petapan]

i would tend toward agreement with unwnd's read of mikul as town. i also have a secret suspect i'm not going to talk about just yet.

[Lunar Martian]

I think those three are town because I can walk through their thought process and follow it. It makes sense and it feels like its coming from the same perspective as me. Is that wrong?

[Illwei]

do you have any townreads yet, though?

Haha! no! well...In my notes I have both you and unwnd as Town (nothing yet on the others quite) but that's mostly because of...hm let me see. Multiquoting...hate it...

I'm just gonna be... hm. Can I just, quote quote here?

Quiet, how are you reading your other newbies right now?

This...well it's not incredibly towny, but both this and

I say go with it. I have no read on peta right now and It'd help me as well

Which in my first readthrough I saw as attempts from unwnd as them trying to see how people were thinking/making them (them in this case being me) commit instead of being all wishy washy as I am =P

Reading through them again...Man, I hate having my reads list be 50 shades of Null. anyways-

Okay actually in reading over my notes I don't have specific posts that felt village, it was just you asking your questions, which I felt...well,

now

looking at it I like a lot more than how I saw unwnd originally.

Ignoring this, I immediately dislike unwnd and safebet a tad for having full reads, despite there not really much going on. Safebet

was

feeling pressured it seems, and unwnd was doing it under the pretense of teaching, so...okay...

in 92 you express that bbmolla's playstyle is not AI and say that you think he seems like an easy target, but in 101 say you're tempted to vote him out anyway. why is that?

For the exact reason that I said he's an easy target: He stands out as very different than the other players, and it feels like he isn't trying to solve. But someone else pointing it out, on an experienced player, puts me off. idk. paranoia?

[Illwei]

I think those three are town because I can walk through their thought process and follow it. It makes sense and it feels like its coming from the same perspective as me. Is that wrong?

I wish I could say the same?