Newbie 2045: A Midwinter Night's Dream - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-5

Before he wrote the much better known

Canterbury Tales

, Chaucer wrote a series of four poems known collectively as his

Dream Visions

These poems were inspired by French and Italian poets who also wrote about visions. His poems were a conduit through which the influence of European writers was received into English. His poems and their European influencers led to a profound change in the way the 'self' was conceptualized in medieval courtly literature. The literature, language, and behaviour of the court took place in the dream visions, an genuine exploration of individual subjectivity in its social context. These works are considered a major contribution to the ongoing debate about how medieval culture transformed into modern early culture.

BBmolla

(3): quiet, unwnd, Lunar Martian

Lunar Martian

(2): Illwei, petapan

unwnd

(1): safebet222

safebet222

(1): BBmolla

quiet

(1): Mikul

Not Voting

(1): Mr Turtle

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: December 27, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2020-12-27 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- Mr Turtle has been prodded.
-

[petapan]

I think those three are town because I can walk through their thought process and follow it. It makes sense and it feels like its coming from the same perspective as me. Is that wrong?

what parts of their thought process do you follow? what's coming from the same perspective? do you agree with any reads they have given?

Ignoring this, I immediately dislike unwnd and safebet a tad for having full reads, despite there not really much going on. Safebet was feeling pressured it seems, and unwnd was doing it under the pretense of teaching, so...okay...

okay, i like you

[Mikul]

looked away at this for like the day and Christ it actually got busy. Will post briefly at work tomorrow, and then when I get home. I'll try to do an iso on a few people that stick out to me.

[quiet]

you say he "seems relaxed", but then like him because he makes a joke about sweating in one of his posts? isn't that a bit of a contradiction? why do you like the first read? to me, it didn't really offer much, which is why i asked him to follow up on it.

Not a contradiction; I think joking about sweating seems relaxed. If they were actually sweating, stressed, I don't think they make a joke about sweating and stressing; that calls attention. I get that someone might do it to deflect, but I have not gotten deflection vibes from Illwei at all.

I liked Illwei's read that unwnd was performative/calm and I was performative/fun bit let's get it because, well, my thing was a bit, so they were correct on me, and they were also aligned with how I read unwnd.

My towny read impression of Mikul was because of the way + reasons they sussed me. I only developed it after getting asked questions. Didn't feel a huge need to correct/argue with them on it right away, was hoping that some of my answers would help provide more context for them.

[quiet]

for the record, i have experience with bbmolla, and i would say his play so far is basically normal for him. in fact, his consistency is remarkable, given that we haven't been in a game together for 5 years or so. some things never change, i guess. in the past, i was able to townread him fairly easily, but i also can't recall if i've ever seem him as scum, and his playstyle is a fairly easy one to duplicate as scum (i know, because i typically play the same way, or used to, anyway). so far in this game, i don't feel one way or the other about anything he's done so far.

This, combined with my metadive from before, and this gem of a post

UNVOTE:
lunar vote was just for reactions and I'm relatively satisfied

makes me no longer want to vote BB
UNVOTE: BBmolla[\unvote]

[quiet]

Sigh. It really should be a backslash. UNVOTE: BBmolla

[petapan]

that's enough for an unvote? i said i'm entirely neutral on him so far.

[unwnd]

for the record, i have experience with bbmolla, and i would say his play so far is basically normal for him. in fact, his consistency is remarkable, given that we haven't been in a game together for 5 years or so. some things never change, i guess. in the past, i was able to townread him fairly easily, but i also can't recall if i've ever seem him as scum, and his playstyle is a fairly easy one to duplicate as scum (i know, because i typically play the same way, or used to, anyway). so far in this game, i don't feel one way or the other about anything he's done so far.

This, combined with my metadive from before, and this gem of a post

UNVOTE:
lunar vote was just for reactions and I'm relatively satisfied

makes me no longer want to vote BB
UNVOTE: BBmolla[\unvote]

I..disagree? I don't really feel like Lunar gave much of a reaction at all. I'm tracking backwards here, but nothing to me stood out in terms of what BBMolla was supposedly looking for.

In sequence:

Spoiler:

Hmmm.... I'm not experienced enough to say but the start of this game feels very awkward. It seems like people are trying to seem like they already know who the Mafia are but to me there's really not much to go on. Even the things other people are saying I think they're mostly reading too much in to. I'm not sure if faking confidence or being genuinely overconfident is an indication that people are Mafia though.

vote confirmed this is absolutely scum

hop on folks we're executing this

Hmmm.... I'm not experienced enough to say but the start of this game feels very awkward. It seems like people are trying to seem like they already know who the Mafia are but to me there's really not much to go on. Even the things other people are saying I think they're mostly reading too much in to. I'm not sure if faking confidence or being genuinely overconfident is an indication that people are Mafia though.

vote confirmed this is absolutely scum

hop on folks we're executing this

what vote?

Hmmm.... I'm not experienced enough to say but the start of this game feels very awkward. It seems like people are trying to seem like they already know who the Mafia are but to me there's really not much to go on. Even the things other people are saying I think they're mostly reading too much in to. I'm not sure if faking confidence or being genuinely overconfident is an indication that people are Mafia though.

vote confirmed this is absolutely scum

hop on folks we're executing this

what vote?

my vote on you

cause you're scum

Okie, I think quiet is town. I'm still very curious about BBmolla's reasoning behind that vote.

UNVOTE:
lunar vote was just for reactions and I'm relatively satisfied

moving on to a better vote
VOTE: safebet222

BBMolla, was Lunar's (lack) of reaction a reaction to you? He seemed to completely ignore your pressure here.

[quiet]

Enough for me. I considered unvoting post my metadive, but at that point, they hadn't moved the needle far enough back from scum yet from my perspective. Confirmation that brevity and pressure is his playstyle, both from them and from you, plus their interactions since then was enough to make me disinterested in leaving them at E-2.

I think the harder question is who I vote on now. Lunar is an option, safebet I would like to hear more from when they're available, but I don't feel super strongly about either at this point. Maybe I'm overfearing E-2.

[quiet]

I..disagree? I don't really feel like Lunar gave much of a reaction at all. I'm tracking backwards here, but nothing to me stood out in terms of what BBMolla was supposedly looking for.

When I voted on them originally, I thought the reason (lack thereof) BBmola put a vote on Lunar was scummy, and generally was suspicious of their posting style. The post I made a note of + my metaskim + peta's testimonial + more recent interactions indicated to me that my reasons for voting didn't hold anymore. Maybe there are other reasons to vote on BB, but when I see them, I'll vote then.

Thinking about it, I realize that I don't read BB as town, just not scummy anymore. Given that I do read some other people towny (hi, Illwei), maybe keeping a vote on someone I read as null is better than unvoting.

[unwnd]

I think BBMolla is more than capable to fake his own town behavior. Where I think he is scummy right now is that he is only

emulating

that behavior, and why I believe that is because I don't think any of his pushes or bravado make sense in the scope of things.

[Mr Turtle]

Mr. Turtle

, where are you?

I'm here now. I wouldn't be a turtle if I was late, now would I?

[BBmolla]

I think BBMolla is more than capable to fake his own town behavior. Where I think he is scummy right now is that he is only

emulating

that behavior, and why I believe that is because I don't think any of his pushes or bravado make sense in the scope of things.

What is "that behavior" that I'm emulating?

Why do my pushes or bravado not make sense?

[BBmolla]

BBMolla, was Lunar's (lack) of reaction a reaction to you? He seemed to completely ignore your pressure here.

Yes

[unwnd]

unwnd - He's obviously pinging me with what I perceive as a condescending attitude... it strikes me as interesting that he only has one scum read and 3 town reads with a

fistfull of nulls (as BB pointed out)

, the BB scum read is disingenuous... In my little experience,

BB's method is common around this site

, I would imagine that unwnd knows this too, and unwnd's play overall pings me as an attempt at being a powerwolf.

First bolded: I admit my read-list had a bit of nulls, but I don't understand where you see discrepancy? I normally wouldn't post something like that this early, but I wanted others to engage my thoughts directly.

Second bolded: I refer to the argument I presented before in that..what's stopping BBMolla from just faking it? You're saying that his method is common but so too is that method being scum. You've referred to my own behavior being powerwolf but I think that term can be stretched out pretty far. I could make the argument that BBMolla is playing powerwolf by the way he is interacting with newbies, but I don't want to make this into circular logic.

[BBmolla]

mr. turtle please exist so I can PoE the scumteam ty

[BBmolla]

unwnd - He's obviously pinging me with what I perceive as a condescending attitude... it strikes me as interesting that he only has one scum read and 3 town reads with a

fistfull of nulls (as BB pointed out)

, the BB scum read is disingenuous... In my little experience,

BB's method is common around this site

, I would imagine that unwnd knows this too, and unwnd's play overall pings me as an attempt at being a powerwolf.

First bolded: I admit my read-list had a bit of nulls, but I don't understand where you see discrepancy? I normally wouldn't post something like that this early, but I wanted others to engage my thoughts directly.

Second bolded: I refer to the argument I presented before in that..what's stopping BBMolla from just faking it? You're saying that his method is common but so too is that method being scum. You've referred to my own behavior being powerwolf but I think that term can be stretched out pretty far. I could make the argument that BBMolla is playing powerwolf by the way he is interacting with newbies, but I don't want to make this into circular logic.

I treat newbies like I treat every other game. I keep in mind that some people might act different due to not being used to the site meta, but playing the "kind, helpful SE" is unbeneficial unless I'm scum. Unless there's some sort of early fight that becomes the center of attention, but that didn't happen here.

[BBmolla]

I normally wouldn't post something like that this early, but I wanted others to engage my thoughts directly.

Normally meaning a non-newbie game?

[BBmolla]

okay, i like you

I had the opposite reaction to Illwei's post, I thought it was kind of gross

[unwnd]

BBMolla, was Lunar's (lack) of reaction a reaction to you? He seemed to completely ignore your pressure here.

Yes

Personally, I remain skeptical. Especially because Lunar questioned you on your vote in #87. It seemed like you realized some intelligent life in our little alien and didn't wanna be caught on a bad wagon.

Furthermore, I think that it contradicts your own claimed behavior in your response to me initially (#105). You have had two instances to interact with players and you have instead chosen to disengage:

Spoiler:

VOTE: bbmolla

lobby stalker

VOTE: zMuffinman

oh hey peta long time no see lmao

VOTE: Mikul
^obv scum, ez game

UNVOTE: unwnd
VOTE: BBmola

Why?

UNVOTE: unwnd
VOTE: BBmola

Why?

Omgus

okay

Spoiler:

VOTE: Lunar Martian

Hmmm.... I'm not experienced enough to say but the start of this game feels very awkward. It seems like people are trying to seem like they already know who the Mafia are but to me there's really not much to go on. Even the things other people are saying I think they're mostly reading too much in to. I'm not sure if faking confidence or being genuinely overconfident is an indication that people are Mafia though.

vote confirmed this is absolutely scum

hop on folks we're executing this

So why were you voting Lunar before this post then?

to push them for more content

why aren't you voting them?

Hmmm.... I'm not experienced enough to say but the start of this game feels very awkward. It seems like people are trying to seem like they already know who the Mafia are but to me there's really not much to go on. Even the things other people are saying I think they're mostly reading too much in to. I'm not sure if faking confidence or being genuinely overconfident is an indication that people are Mafia though.

vote confirmed this is absolutely scum

hop on folks we're executing this

what vote?

my vote on you

cause you're scum

BBMolla gives me an opposite approach, where he is already giving the answers. He's confident in himself and I think that he believes that confidence will cause things to go his way. I don't think that confidence is justified quite yet however, and I think his authority is more demanding than it is beneficial. While he may not be a newbie, the way he's approached the thread with lack of care/sensitivity makes me think he only wants to give off a tough impression instead of using it for town's benefit.

how people respond to conflict is way more telling readswise then a bunch of people being nice to each other

UNVOTE:
lunar vote was just for reactions and I'm relatively satisfied

moving on to a better vote
VOTE: safebet222

If your claims in #105 were actually true, then you wouldn't be attempting the same thing not once, but twice. I think maybe even three if we count safebet. I don't believe you attempted to discern either of their alignments through interaction and instead are just placing votes and making strong remarks under a guise of scumhunting.

[Illwei]

I liked Illwei's read that unwnd was performative/calm and I was performative/fun bit let's get it because, well, my thing was a bit, so they were correct on me, and they were also aligned with how I read unwnd.

Right, sorry, (sorry is not directed at anyone in particular) I don't think I actually explained my thoughts when I was asked. I think if I were to compare those two interactions, then unwnd seems more suspicious to me since performative/calm has little reason while performative/fun is all about the bit, so it just- it's not performative for the sake of seeming involved, it's performative for the sake of...having fun?...

I think that probably explains it a bit better than what I did before. Wait, did I answer this before?

Oh, yeah I did. and...I said Quiet? was more suspicious? huh. I don't know how... Well, maybe before I was looking at everything quiet was saying as if they had already flipped scum? ...huh. Well, that's, the above bit, my answer to...uh...let me find...it..

this:

do the different responses make one of them more suspicious to you?

Sorry, I have trouble thinking sometimes, I know that this kinda...

directly contracticts

what I said in the last response to this question =P

Maybe I'm overfearing E-2.

Tbf, I was

pretty

tempted to vote on BBmola to put him at E-1, just...to see what would happen .

BBMolla, was Lunar's (lack) of reaction a reaction to you? He seemed to completely ignore your pressure here.

This is definitely not me meaning to answer for him, so I hope it's not taken that way: but after looking at Lunar's responses, they seem like something that would make me want to leave my vote on Lunar if I was BBmola. so that's something that slightly confuses me.

I also think that a single vote doesn't do much in terms of pressure. Lunar stayed strangely calm during that, even putting what could have been a self-defense vote disguised with fake meaning on BBmola. The whole situation feels awkwardly like some sort of Distancing to me.

I would say that the whole thing feels...off. somehow. filing that away in "think about later" as there's too many directions this could go and I don't want to waste anyone's time talking about all of them and...how equally unlikely they all are...

okay, i like you

? hm?

I had the opposite reaction to Illwei's post, I thought it was kind of gross

;-;

[Lunar Martian]

okay, i like you

I had the opposite reaction to Illwei's post, I thought it was kind of gross

It seems we have very different ways of looking at the game, and that suggests that your thoughts possibly aren't motivated by the same things as me.

[unwnd]

Lunar, is there any other people that you are concerned about other than BBMolla? You townread Me/Illweil/Quiet, but what about the others? Don't worry about the thought being incomplete, I just want to see where they could be headed.

[Illwei]

okay, i like you

I had the opposite reaction to Illwei's post, I thought it was kind of gross

I should probably expant on my last comment
What about it didn't sit right with you?

[petapan]

okay, i like you

I had the opposite reaction to Illwei's post, I thought it was kind of gross

It seems we have very different ways of looking at the game, and that suggests that your thoughts possibly aren't motivated by the same things as me.

why can't someone looking at the game differently be simply a matter of opinion, rather than differing alignment? not everyone is going to think exactly the same way.

also, hello,

Lunar Martian

, you seem to have ignored my questions to you, so i've helpfully quoted them for you below:

I think those three are town because I can walk through their thought process and follow it. It makes sense and it feels like its coming from the same perspective as me. Is that wrong?

what parts of their thought process do you follow? what's coming from the same perspective? do you agree with any reads they have given?