Newbie 2045: A Midwinter Night's Dream - End!

[petapan]

what do you think of mikul's massive string of posts, safebet?

[safebet222]

Still catching up... Give me a little bit.

[safebet222]

This, combined with my metadive from before, and this gem of a post

UNVOTE:
lunar vote was just for reactions and I'm relatively satisfied

makes me no longer want to vote BB
UNVOTE: BBmolla[\unvote]

I don't understand what was so great about this take... I thought it is pretty typical of players who play like this and should be expected by someone doing a meta dive of any kind.

[safebet222]

I..disagree? I don't really feel like Lunar gave much of a reaction at all. I'm tracking backwards here, but nothing to me stood out in terms of what BBMolla was supposedly looking for.

When I voted on them originally, I thought the reason (lack thereof) BBmola put a vote on Lunar was scummy, and generally was suspicious of their posting style. The post I made a note of + my metaskim + peta's testimonial + more recent interactions indicated to me that my reasons for voting didn't hold anymore. Maybe there are other reasons to vote on BB, but when I see them, I'll vote then.

Thinking about it, I realize that I don't read BB as town, just not scummy anymore. Given that I do read some other people towny (hi, Illwei), maybe keeping a vote on someone I read as null is better than unvoting.

Quiet is moving down in my town read list for this... The waffling and reconsideration seem fabricated.

[safebet222]

unwnd - He's obviously pinging me with what I perceive as a condescending attitude... it strikes me as interesting that he only has one scum read and 3 town reads with a

fistfull of nulls (as BB pointed out)

, the BB scum read is disingenuous... In my little experience,

BB's method is common around this site

, I would imagine that unwnd knows this too, and unwnd's play overall pings me as an attempt at being a powerwolf.

First bolded: I admit my read-list had a bit of nulls, but I don't understand where you see discrepancy? I normally wouldn't post something like that this early, but I wanted others to engage my thoughts directly.

Second bolded: I refer to the argument I presented before in that..what's stopping BBMolla from just faking it? You're saying that his method is common but so too is that method being scum. You've referred to my own behavior being powerwolf but I think that term can be stretched out pretty far. I could make the argument that BBMolla is playing powerwolf by the way he is interacting with newbies, but I don't want to make this into circular logic.

1st: Your BB read is disingenuous, I think you understand exactly what BB's style is and that its effective regardless of alignment. Also, its interesting that you're scum hunting but null read half the field...

2nd: By your own admission, this is wifom. So why is BB not also worthy of status in your null pile?

This is the discrepancy.

[unwnd]

1st: Your BB read is disingenuous, I think you understand exactly what BB's style is and that its

effective regardless of alignment.

Also, its interesting that you're scum hunting but null read half the field...

Doesn't that mean it could come from scum? I've given my reasons as to why I believe this.

[BBmolla]

unwnd - He's obviously pinging me with what I perceive as a condescending attitude... it strikes me as interesting that he only has one scum read and 3 town reads with a

fistfull of nulls (as BB pointed out)

, the BB scum read is disingenuous... In my little experience,

BB's method is common around this site

, I would imagine that unwnd knows this too, and unwnd's play overall pings me as an attempt at being a powerwolf.

First bolded: I admit my read-list had a bit of nulls, but I don't understand where you see discrepancy? I normally wouldn't post something like that this early, but I wanted others to engage my thoughts directly.

Second bolded: I refer to the argument I presented before in that..what's stopping BBMolla from just faking it? You're saying that his method is common but so too is that method being scum. You've referred to my own behavior being powerwolf but I think that term can be stretched out pretty far. I could make the argument that BBMolla is playing powerwolf by the way he is interacting with newbies, but I don't want to make this into circular logic.

1st: Your BB read is disingenuous, I think you understand exactly what BB's style is and that its effective regardless of alignment. Also, its interesting that you're scum hunting but null read half the field...

2nd: By your own admission, this is wifom. So why is BB not also worthy of status in your null pile?

This is the discrepancy.

Oi thank you for finding the words for me lmao

[BBmolla]

okay, i like you

I had the opposite reaction to Illwei's post, I thought it was kind of gross

I should probably expant on my last comment
What about it didn't sit right with you?

Ignoring this, I immediately dislike unwnd and safebet a tad for having full reads, despite there not really much going on. Safebet was feeling pressured it seems, and unwnd was doing it under the pretense of teaching, so...okay...

"They seem scummy for this reason... but it's invalid... anyway"

seems like scum fencesitting

I don't feel that strongly about it atm tbh

[BBmolla]

BBMolla, was Lunar's (lack) of reaction a reaction to you? He seemed to completely ignore your pressure here.

Yes

Personally, I remain skeptical. Especially because Lunar questioned you on your vote in #87. It seemed like you realized some intelligent life in our little alien and didn't wanna be caught on a bad wagon.

Furthermore, I think that it contradicts your own claimed behavior in your response to me initially (#105). You have had two instances to interact with players and you have instead chosen to disengage:

Spoiler:

VOTE: bbmolla

lobby stalker

VOTE: zMuffinman

oh hey peta long time no see lmao

VOTE: Mikul
^obv scum, ez game

UNVOTE: unwnd
VOTE: BBmola

Why?

UNVOTE: unwnd
VOTE: BBmola

Why?

Omgus

okay

Spoiler:

VOTE: Lunar Martian

Hmmm.... I'm not experienced enough to say but the start of this game feels very awkward. It seems like people are trying to seem like they already know who the Mafia are but to me there's really not much to go on. Even the things other people are saying I think they're mostly reading too much in to. I'm not sure if faking confidence or being genuinely overconfident is an indication that people are Mafia though.

vote confirmed this is absolutely scum

hop on folks we're executing this

So why were you voting Lunar before this post then?

to push them for more content

why aren't you voting them?

Hmmm.... I'm not experienced enough to say but the start of this game feels very awkward. It seems like people are trying to seem like they already know who the Mafia are but to me there's really not much to go on. Even the things other people are saying I think they're mostly reading too much in to. I'm not sure if faking confidence or being genuinely overconfident is an indication that people are Mafia though.

vote confirmed this is absolutely scum

hop on folks we're executing this

what vote?

my vote on you

cause you're scum

BBMolla gives me an opposite approach, where he is already giving the answers. He's confident in himself and I think that he believes that confidence will cause things to go his way. I don't think that confidence is justified quite yet however, and I think his authority is more demanding than it is beneficial. While he may not be a newbie, the way he's approached the thread with lack of care/sensitivity makes me think he only wants to give off a tough impression instead of using it for town's benefit.

how people respond to conflict is way more telling readswise then a bunch of people being nice to each other

UNVOTE:
lunar vote was just for reactions and I'm relatively satisfied

moving on to a better vote
VOTE: safebet222

If your claims in #105 were actually true, then you wouldn't be attempting the same thing not once, but twice. I think maybe even three if we count safebet. I don't believe you attempted to discern either of their alignments through interaction and instead are just placing votes and making strong remarks under a guise of scumhunting.

I said in 105 I wanted to hunt in the null reads

so I hunted in the null reads by pressuring them

and because I did that more than once it's scummy

???

I don't follow

[BBmolla]

okay, i like you

I had the opposite reaction to Illwei's post, I thought it was kind of gross

It seems we have very different ways of looking at the game, and that suggests that your thoughts possibly aren't motivated by the same things as me.

The first part of the statement is true, the conclusion is false.

[BBmolla]

i'm...going to be honest. i had the same thought as unwnd, i felt like you abandoned your vote on lunar far too early

There were bigger fish to fry imo. I thought the nonreaction was enough for me to look elsewhere, but I think it's reasonable that you don't.

do you think the way i'm playing is scummy?

If I was playing that way it would be. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is for you. But I'm noting it.

i have an instinctual distrust of early readlists and so i felt a small bond with illwei when he said that. i don't think it's a reliable tell, and i don't necessarily have any issue with the content of either unwnd or safebet's lists, which is why i'm not voting them, but i appreciate that illwei thinks that way, on a gut level it feels town to me. why did you have an issue with that post?

I explained above but the fencesittiness bothered me, but I liked their response to me disliking it and I don't feel that strongly about it anymore.

[BBmolla]

Mikul's wave of posting seems town

[safebet222]

what do you think of mikul's massive string of posts, safebet?

This piqued my interest because it seems like he back pedaling a bit after you pushed back on his reactions to your posts... not sure that its AI or anything, just interesting and may be important later...

Okay caught up. Peta also just did a 180 after a little pressure. That also sticks out to me

pardon? i don't believe i've been pressured at all, let alone reversed on a read because of it.

Pressure is a lose term. I believe molla pointed out that you hadn't been offering reads

I noticed this as well. And even said please give your reads.

I think your response was. Give me a damn minute or something.

Directly after that you started going in pretty hard where as before you were being very passive. As I mentioned. It could be go probe new players or it could be because you didn't want to keep not offering reads and get called on it harder

Also to confess the 2 scum reads are pretty weak. It is dp1. Lunar in his revote pegged me as noob but something about his responses and posting patterns seems like he's trying to copy how a townie should act

Read quiet as scum for much the same.

Posts like this one...

@peta. It depends. Not giving reads could look bad to experienced players or people that are familiar with mafia. If you hedge doing that with "I want to ask players and show them how to develop reads" , it doesn't look scummy. It looks like your playing to the goal of a begginer game (to noobs at least). You are being townread for this by some of them if I recall.

That

1) can be genuine and you are town wanting to help
2) can be malicious and scum distancing himself from being committal. The less you commit, the less there is to look back on as flips happen.

---

Re: the second part

I generally like this response as I agree with it. The more you interact with and play with people, the harder it is to read them for a variety of reasons. Specifically because (as you said) you start to realize layers of personality and playstyle

They just smack of WIFOM that confuses newbtown toward a wagon that is a miselim... That isn't to say that mentioning it is bad, you should be cognizant that many of these reads may go either way, but repeating this fact over and over is more hedging his bets to stay safe in case there is a flip...

Post 191 is more of the same... as soon as he's asked to defend his read he slides back into this hedging so he can say if quiet happens to flip green, "I did say it was a 60/40 shot".

So, in short, it isn't changing my read so far of him... still leaning scum.

[quiet]

I don't understand what was so great about this take... I thought it is pretty typical of players who play like this and should be expected by someone doing a meta dive of any kind.

That's my whole point. I didn't know he played like this before the metadive. I didn't understand and thought his pattern of posting and his vote on Lunar was scummy before I did the metadive, before he posted explaining it, and before other people confirmed this was his playstyle. How am I supposed to know what's typical of players who play like this....before I play with them and before I dive on them, which is when I voted?

Before I knew that, I was suspicious of him for it.

Now I know it, which means my reasons for voting him originally were provably wrong. He went from scum to null for me.

Is it better to keep vote on a null, given that I have some town reads? Or better to unvote after your original reason for voting is provably wrong? That's my waffling question.

[quiet]

Lunar has been a bit lurky

Lunar has been a bit lurky.
Lunar, what's your take on how newbie scum would play? Especially referencing Mikul's posts about me, and this post about you.

[petapan]

i have an instinctual distrust of early readlists and so i felt a small bond with illwei when he said that. i don't think it's a reliable tell, and i don't necessarily have any issue with the content of either unwnd or safebet's lists, which is why i'm not voting them, but i appreciate that illwei thinks that way, on a gut level it feels town to me. why did you have an issue with that post?

I explained above but the fencesittiness bothered me, but I liked their response to me disliking it and I don't feel that strongly about it anymore.

hum, it didn't strike me as fencesitting, though i understand why you read it that way. why doesn't mikul's hedging bother you?

They just smack of WIFOM that confuses newbtown toward a wagon that is a miselim... That isn't to say that mentioning it is bad, you should be cognizant that many of these reads may go either way, but repeating this fact over and over is more hedging his bets to stay safe in case there is a flip...

Post 191 is more of the same... as soon as he's asked to defend his read he slides back into this hedging so he can say if quiet happens to flip green, "I did say it was a 60/40 shot".

So, in short, it isn't changing my read so far of him... still leaning scum.

hedging just seems to be a part of his posting style. but on a gut level, i feel like he is town. i don't have the words or the patience to go into detail right now, though. i feel that you are town, as well.

[BBmolla]

Feel relatively okay about almost all active posters

Still trying to determine if unwnd believes what they're saying or if it's calculated, that's going to determine whether they're town or scum

Looking forward to Lunar's reaction to further pressure

I feel good about Mikul, Quiet, Illwei

Safebet/Peta is where my vote will be if Turtle seems town

VOTE: Mr. Turtle

We're just about 10 pages in, I'm not going to keep letting this slot slide. Time to post hombre. I don't even need you to read the game start posting, read this page and give your thoughts.

[BBmolla]

Deceius

Fun fact, his named was actually Decimus, it was a typo lol

Turtleboy I will literally get fferyllt to hit you up on discord, I really need to know your slots alignment to figure out this game

[petapan]

i'm betting you're gonna have to wait out the prod timer there.

no improvement on feelings toward safebet since he "found the words for you"?

[BBmolla]

Slightly, that’s primarily why I wanted to go Mr. Turtle, Safebet might be PoE scum but I can’t tell without Turty

[BBmolla]

While nice he sees things from my point of view, as I posted earlier agreeing =/= same alignment

[BBmolla]

You’re likely right about prod timer wish I could message him on discord lmao

[petapan]

meh like safebet's scumreads seem against the grain, he's hardly "safe" as you called him, and i feel likethere's some decent belief there, not a lot of caution in his language, put a lot of people as town early, hasn't backed down on his mikul scumread even though it's going against what other people say

[BBmolla]

meh like safebet's scumreads seem against the grain, he's hardly "safe" as you called him, and i feel likethere's some decent belief there, not a lot of caution in his language, put a lot of people as town early, hasn't backed down on his mikul scumread even though it's going against what other people say

I just don't get a lot of townpings in his post, that's all it really comes down to for me atm

[BBmolla]

I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily