Yellowstone

[Marky Mark]

*Yeets nora a sandwich to munch while reading this.*

Spoiler: OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

Alright let's drop the act for this one, it's clear to me that anything less blunt and to the point commentary is going to be considered by our sharpened steel friend here.

My name is not Joseph! How dare you!

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Guillotina!!!! Ooooweeee

Yaaaah! I'm here to lighten your days yo!

Make your days grand while killing scum!

Which given these have a nice and chill vibe to them amuses me greatly.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

New to the forum right?

MINE

Yah, new to the forum.

VOTE: No Elim. But not like the user no elim, like a vote to not elim

VOTE: No elim

Ok

{. Are you new to the forum or pretending to be new to the forum?

very sad! low energy! lame!

This denotes excitement, wants to get the game going. Horsewoman, it's a 10-day Day phase game.

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

You were bored and you are probably used to fast games.

To some extent, sure. It wasn't entirely serious in tone because I rarely am.

Yah, you've been fucking around.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Not necessarily

Now this is his 4th post, and the game has moved on to page 3, almost page 4.

This is fairly

sharp

shift in tone and seems to be setting up for a SR imo.

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

This is the post of my main read, they're not even trying to post on interactions or anything. The game right now is on page 3, nobody would really have any solid reads at all but it doesn't mean we all just give up and let other's do everything. I first read this as a joke post as I've said, which is why I brushed off Marks read but then when they made that second post I quoted said that it was at least semi-serious and that's plain anti-town behaviour and I'm not going to let that slip regardless if they're Town acting anti-town.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

And then when I called it out for being anti-town behaviour they flipped the wording to make them look like they're actively trying to push the game out of RVS and solve and in extension discredit my case, they're blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from RVS. This is just straight scummy behaviour, what Town would twist the wording in this situation for their own self-gain.

Two questions, 1) do you think HW gave up and let others do everything?

2) In your experience, do all town members behave and act upon posts the same?

Testing the waters maybe? I'm probably stretching here but this is what it feels like to me at the moment.

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

Me too! Hey look you made a fluff post with no point to it, what's the world coming to, hm?

Nice try at discrediting my way of game solving.

First, if the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere is because the content of it didn't. Thank you.
Two, my deep dive allowed me deduce that you attempted to noobtell and miserably failed.
Three, makes me wonder why you tried to noobtell? Either alignment do this, but why did you?

If the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere, then you're not doing it right, quite frankly. Your deep dive was a setup for something that hasn't quite panned out and is now making you look bad.

If you want to call people out for no-contenting, then at least provide some yourself. You can always provide content from nothing.

Ok well im now 99% sure I have soul read on Flea and I think they're scum. Maybe will explain why later. A bit cautious treading in this territory cuz last I SRed Flea, they were town. Gimme some time to think.

Have you explained why already?

You could just read yourself and see.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Now I like this one. "Hah you thought this point but not this point! Therefore you are scum, my dear!"

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

This ones also interesting. The context has been left out, potentially leaving it to be twisted for later deeds. It's a strictly out of game comment aimed at Nora when it comes to my personality beyond the game. You then take this moment to prod me on HW.

barely caring about other people's SRs on you(which is a newbscum tell that says they know the people SRing are right so they are avoiding)

Thinking about it, this feels like an inaccuracy - in my (limited) experience, newbscum tend to panic when people vote them rather than playing it cool like a more seasoned player. Not sure if you are stretching the truth to fit the facts here or have just had a different experience of playing with new players (entirely possible).

Btw - pagetop without even realising until I'd posted #oblivious #ImJustThatGood

This is inaccurate. NoobsScum will ignore and evade town that scum read them by instinct.

A noob town will panic because in their own perspective, they should be obvious town cause they are being honest, so when they get votes they panic because they dont understand it.

Not always. If we were children, maybe.

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

Not at all, just reflecting on my mannerisms ^_^ I am the universal parent friendo

Horsey is sus, but nothing significant as of yet.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

This is setting up for later, it's almost like gut instinct isn't allowed and I'm not allowed have my read without justification.

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Why mention me specifically? This is part of a setup imo.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

I love this.
It's stupidly NAI worded xD

Weird.

Show us where you thought Mark was shading people.

Nah I liked his reply and now TR him. If he starts being scummy again tho, my walls of evidence will come strolling in in some tall high heels like clickety clack clack.

Maybe i was wrong townreading you. This is not how town proceeds.

VOTE: Noraa

Evidence of shading or i'll park this vote.

OBEY ME OR I'M GOING TO JUST be kinda lazy... hm.

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

This is about where I’m at as well although I don’t think all three of those are scum together, I think at least one is though if that makes sense.

Yah i dont think I'm actually God of mafia and found 3 wolves in day 1. But those slots need to get sorted.

Horsewoman is obvscum! I'd yeet her first.

Potential associative? This is an extreme shift though, that pressure vote just *poof* gone faster than a fart in the wind. The vote on Noraa is now serving no purpose.

OK fine I can't help myself OK? This is why I said its half and half

VOTE: horsewoman

Why?

Because she's obvscum, obviously. pfft. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was dumb. I wasnt trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also wasnt discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

Curious again, i never said you did discredit me for any of those things, but if it is in your mind, it's because it's true.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was

smart

. I

WAS

trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also

WAS

discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is

NOT

laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

This is what you are psychologically telling me.

I like these two posts...

Literally Guillotina putting words in mouth and trying to force something that I don't think is there.

This is an impressive Deathtunnel, shame about the execution though.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

LOOOK AT MEEEEE! I'M MR GUUUILLLLOTIIIIIINA!!!!
Attempt at putting pressure back on Noraa, which I sadly know won't work.
"You're obvscum! And I'mma vote yoooou! except you're not so amma vote Noraa instead because she won't OBEY." (✿˘艸˘✿)

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

And yet there's an actual post where I literally just OMGUS'd and I got the best interaction in this game yet from it

Did Noraa froze?

Horsewoman, Llama slot and Noraa is where I'll vote today.

JK, Mark. Whom you'd most likely vote to yeet here?

See this is where I think these constant read lists are a little butt bitey. It's entirely NAI but I find it amusing that these lists are being stuck to like rigidly. There's 3 options and 3 options only. There's no information on town leans and no effort to solve outside these lists IMO.

Helpful PC User EBWOP for him

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

Townie response.

Flea, are you town? Your ISO is more fluff than game solving as of now.

Two in one.
As I've said earlier, I'm fluffy af as a person.o(〃＾▽＾〃)o
My game policy is "I'm here for good time not for long time!"
You cut past the fluff I post, and you'll find content. You have to be willing to work for it, which to me at this point it's clear you're not and I get a frustrated vibe from you towards me because of all this. Partly why I've dropped most of the persona from this ISO so you can read it and not get pissed off I have quite a developed reads list at this point and have fewer nulls than you

Look inside and be afraid, of this impressive mess I've made. If you take a look now you will fiiiiiiiiind! I have done away with lies, done away with paradise, see whats going on inside my miiieeeeennnnnnnd mwahahaha

Has No Elim posted at all?

Just as a friendly pointer, there's the ISO sections which let you look at players in ISOlation, and there's the Activity overview on the bottom that lets you see how active players are and how long since they last posted

As a less friendly note... this be fluff

Ur town play is trash then if that's how you think. OMGUSing is something nearly every newbie does but thinking it is optimal play is pretty bad.

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

The irony.

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

Also, next time I would appreciate if you did take quotes out of context, that's a very scummy thing to do. Do not worry though, I will look into the original posts for context.

Oh, my god. You suck.
A term created by wolves to discredit town pushes... but you want people to OMGUS you...
It's not a bad thing to do, honestly. and for some play styles, it's optimal. I use it occasionally because it gives me information I can work with ¡¡¡( •̀ ᴗ •́ )و!!!
But then I'm a weird player

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

you just called urself scum lol.

Nice try! I did,'t create the term dummy. It's been on existence since way before you started playing this.

See this is why I love Nora, Nora picks up on this shiz but doesn't call it out like I do.
Gulliotina coming in with the strawman defence.

Ok so

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Flea
Nono
DGB
no elim

Scum

Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig
Toogeloo

And now we have a full reads list. All nulls included.

I'll keep my vote on Noraa, but i'm willing to come to a consensus with the people I town read to vote for someone else, as long as that someone else is in my scum list.

I like this.

"You can work with me but I'll only work with you if its in my interests!"

Now Noraa, see this? This is shading!


Flea, would you rather if i negotiated for a yeet in my town read list? How about in my null list? And why?

Double contexter, I actually quite like the response to my shade and it's AI IMO.

To answer the question, town reads not at all, null reads, yes. Absolutely yes. Your nulls should be a main focus IMO. Those are slots you need to sort. Given I've been specifically placed in your null list that means I've done something worthy of your attention, meaning I should be sorted by now. You've at best been idlying playing with your scum reads at this point and I get a lazy cat vibe from you overall.

I can't not say I won't read fae not aligned with anti-town.

Faer fluffy.

I agree.

You went up to null, because you are either a smartass town or God Level WIFOM Mafia.

This is not a valid read to increase the read on someone.
You don't improve a read based on WIFOM drops or someone being a smartass. WIFOM is the weapon of the foul and low.

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Nono
DGB
no elim
Toogeloo

Scum

Flea
Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig

Now we have some meat. Me and Toogs have swapped places. All I did was yeet some shade, and now I'm scum. Toogs was a smartass/WIFOM-bomber and moved up.
This progression is WEEEEERRRRIIIIIIDD!

These posts are going to be your downfall... Your progression on me feels a lil weird.ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

I’m aware i can be wrong and I’m willing to be proven wrong.

Do that instead of posting fluff after fluff. Help me townread you if you are town. If you are wolf, keep doing what you are doing, i love it!

Which is manifested here. Now my posts are fluff after fluff after fluff. That lazy cat vibe is back again. I know there's content in my posts, and so do others. You just have to effort it to find it.

It's then the "Help me help you!" line... of laziness. This is more refusal to do anything and condemning me because of how I play the game. It's another case of "OBEY ME OR ELSE (i'm just going to be lazy and just like.. fluff push you I guess?)".

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Confused why you would pick out Flea specifically as being null (as opposed to the other 9 players implicitly null by not being in your list)?

At the time i had no impressions about others. Only those names.

Flea gave me mixed feelings then, so null.

I still find it odd I was mentioned and looking at it, it looks like a setup for later to me.

Scum reads have to come from somewhere, and I'm not fond of people picking on low hanging fruit

Who is the LHF here?

+1

I've not quoted the follow up posts but its great to have guillotine on the same wavelength (

unless its a pocket

ofc )

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

Cheeky naked vote on consensus SR. Have some scumpoints.

Pig and Nono's 0-context votes seem sus to me, especially when we are getting beyond RVS

Both of these two were V/LA at the time of his push

Yeah, nah. Try harder please. Both dropped a no-context vote

prior

to going V/LA, when the game was getting well beyond RVS. This is a behaviour that is scummy, so I called it out. Would it have been better to ignore it?

Btw lol, I'm loving JV and Guillotine taking Noraa to task on their push on me, before I've replied. Welcome to the

Marky Mark entourage guy

s :3

First bold, if it is a pocket, it’s a town pocket so do not worry. Unless you are wolf, then you should worry as town do pocket wolves too.

Second bold, i know what you are implying here and I love it because that thought process could only come from town.

IIoA-ish. Also I'm glad you know what you meant with the second bold, because I don't.

Horsewoman raised several red flags before i said “definitely scum”.

Do you suggest i pace myself down though?

I'm not seeing them though, and not as being called out from you... You've been on HW since the start of the day with saying she's scummy.

@mark I understand. Still believe HW is scum and until she towns up, she is not getting out of my list.

PFFT. You keep repeating that yet ur vote's on me. LOL.

You got a point. I did say my vote would go to HW if you answered my questions about Mark's shading posts.

I'm a man of my word.

VOTE: Horsewoman

You are still in my scum list though.

I freaking love Nora, she is my kinda chaos - and this to me is one of the definitions of OMGUS, called out for something and bites back.

I said that i would be judging the game based on this game's actions. So any kind of meta is irrelevant to me including people's self meta.

This is worth noting because....

Flea - I wish you'd stop using so many spoiler tags. It makes it easy to miss the content of your posts, which are pretty good.

Early posting looks like honest scum hunting.

Town for now.

Toog - I'm fine with any votes for horse.

But the early serious vote smells of bussing.

Then again maybe I'm just paranoid.

First bold, what early posts from Flea looked like scum hunting? Maybe you are seeing something I'm not.

Second bold, do you really believe there is utility for scum to bus a teammate on D1, when it's really easy to try to do anything else but that? Have you played as scum before?

I think a lot of people are seeing things you're not and there's ALWAYS utility to bus. For someone who has just thrown meta out of the window, why are you interested if someones played a game as an alignment before? That is a form of meta.

Well for one, i purposely change my meta in every game, that way noone can reference meta about me and have to solve me base on the game im playing. Two, I was extremely arrogant and irresponsible in SirCakez game, i FPS, but I'm not ready to do that again in a community where I'm new at, so, you get standard focused Guillo in this one.

"I AM UNREEEEEEAAAAAADABLEEEE!!! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH*coughcoughsplutter*
Sadly as someone who uses a persona to play this game and avoid meta, patterns will always emerge no matter how you try and play. Oh, and self-meta is here

Sorry nornor, that means your soul reads on me aren't on me but on the person and will probably always be wrong <3

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

You're voting away from your 99% soul-read on scum!flea again? Can you explain why you're doing that and why you're voting them when I think they're fairly townie + you give no reasonings here.

Noraa town reads Flea now.

IIoA. Not only that, it's putting words in her mouth. This looks like framing to me.

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Help me see it. Do me a point by point of why I might be wrong about HW.

MEEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!!

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

So is this, honestly. Yes it's NAI and doing nothing in and of itself, however, it's still doing something. I'm not going to explain it to you though, you're a lazy butt.

Just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Noraa is either scum playing dumb or a Naive Town.

Non-commital and sitting on a fence. This right here, is a fluff post. I'll do a comparison after this.

I mean I'm pretty sure horse is new *to this site* but not new to mafia in general. isn't that misleading imo but I can see where the confusion comes from and why someone might misinterpret it as her trying to pull a newb card.

She specifically said " hi, I'm new! Go easy on me"

I made an entire wall about how that was more likely to come from scum

I mean if she's new to this site, she's not familiar with site meta and stuff like that. I find it not crazy to ask for people to go easy on her.

Yeah I just wanted you all not to call me names and stuff, I dont know anyone here is the thing.

Also sorry for not posting anything substantive in aaages, couple of bad mental health days. Sadly the streak will continue as I will be unable to post anything substantive for some hours now.

I'm gonna look like an asshole, but this sounds a lot like AtE. I hope you do get better but I still suspect this slot.

Yes, yes you do. If someone says their mental health is crap you don't throw it at them as AtE to get out of something. Anyone using that as an excuse honestly deserves to be in the bin.

I myself have several conditions that affect my ability to play as much as I would like and people have simply said "No worries, catch up when you can. If you're able are you able to answer these questions for me?"

We're good folk here <3

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like

why bother

stating the obvious assumption being drawn here

when we can all see

what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Also, this did feel like shading. I don't believe you are an idiot if you are playing this game so I don't believe your question was a real one. Then you state that we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey. Who is all? Did you ask each and every one of us to come to that conclusion?

For someone doing absolutely bare minimum themselves, this is a big ask.

I don't have much of a read on that slot, so vote and see.

Nah, I'm not voting outside my scum list, but!

We can scrutinize!

@Momrangal

You scumread Horsewoman and I agree.

Who else do you scum read? Who do you town read?
And more importantly, why?

GIT IN MAH POKIT!

I also wanna point out, theres been no reads lists recently.

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

Now this is revealing.

Care to share games where she's done this. It would be great if you can share a game where she was town and another one where she was mafia and she did this. Because then I could treat it as a behavior pattern rather than an AI.

Dude this is my second game of MS mafia and the first is ongoing.

I'm talking about the alleged "Outside of MS games". Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Damn I wish I could stretch this well...

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Bro you talking like i was trying to hide my mafia experience (which was 72 hour day phases and really casual) but I immediately said I had experience when asked even though i easily could have pretended to be totally new as the forum i played on is now down and I didnt even use this username so nobody was catching me

Wrong, you can't say that you could have easily pretended to be totally new, when it only took two posts to catch you. Let's put it this way, you might be a seasoned player but you are a terrible liar, the problem here is, why you tried to lie to us?

this is beautiful, I think amma cry :')

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

This is a train of thought that I have seen many times that basically goes 'only mafia would care about being lynched/treated badly'. Completely wrong! Being mislynched sucks on an emotional level and it also hurts town on a game level! Town have a huge interest in not being lynched.

See this is what I'm talking about? You want us to town read you but you take posts out of context and AtE to try to get us to not push you, which makes me want to push you more. She is talking about, why would any of us would take it easy on you because you are new? Why would we believe that you are new? Why do we care that you are new or experienced? There are games for newbies here. You could have signed to one of those but you chose to sign up for a no-newbies game, which is fine! But don't expect preferential treatment.

Being myslynched sucks, but that is what towns are destined to be, some of us will have to die, so others can get info out of our deaths and solve the game. Don't take it personally, it is part of the game, don't act like it is not.

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

I will lose my mind, make it real this tiiiiime, to leave it all behind. I won't cry wolf.
Show me a sign, planets will align,
I'm gunna blow my mind. I won't, cry wolf.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

i didn't vote for you because hardcore, ridiculous irrational tunneling usually comes from town, which is what you're doing.

Stop this! We are past that unless you want me to keep tunneling you. I asked you for reads on people, can you please provide them?

Would you kindly, obey? obey. OBEY. OBEY.

Saying "go easy on me" is expecting preferential treatment! Think about that hard.

If you stop engaging with my posts I will never townread you, i think it is in your best interest to convince me that you are town. I'm willing to move past your failed noob gimmick attempt and start over! There are many ways to find out if you are scum or not.

Look, town can lie too, there are many players here that yeet all liars no matter the reasons, I disagree. Town can lie for good reasons, for dumb reasons or just because the slot is a compulsive liar that randed town (not saying that any of these are you), I wanted to see why you tried to lie about that and see if such lie can come from a town slot.
I'm not convinced you are town. tbf.

I'm looking forward to your engagement! Bring me a pelt.

This is going beyond attacking the slot at this point.
Also, MEOW!

Oh I do have a question though, what is 'shading'? Seen people use that term like 10 times this game, no idea what it means. Is it just being sketchy/shady?

Shading is like putting someone on a bad light in bad faith. It's the act of de-valuating, gaslighting and trivializing other people.

You should read this: https://forum.mafia451.com/t/10-psychol ... -mafia/739

Disagree.
Shading is the act of throwing shade and suspicion on a slot and mocking some of the content.
Gaslighting is an abuse tactic.
Devaluing evidence and reads is standard play.
Trivialising people also shouldn't be done as it can drive people down and out. Trivialise the reads and motivations, not the people.

I think Toogeloo is scummy, I just don't know if it's scummy town or just scum. I'm looking closely there but you are right, it's hard to look when the slot is not creating content.

Marky Mark, i generally town lean, but his tone sometimes is... I don't know how to explain it other than, he is either town, or a townie scum. You know like there are scummy towns? Well there are also townie scums. My gut and my brain is fighting over on whether Mark is town or a townie scum.

Noraa, I tend to agree on that one, problem is that everything else from her is bad. Specially her sudden townread on Marky after accusing him of shading and scum reading him for it.

Flea, yah fae have this gimmicky careless approach right? Wonder if that is genuine or it is staged.

Both. Literally both. This ISO is dropping the persona aspect of me and yeah I'm still acting like an idiot

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

But you boosted your Toogs read based on a smartass comment I just want to be loved damnnit!

The thing is, DGBs post says a lot. that you're unable to put the work in and see says a lot.

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

HOW DAAAAARE YOU ASK ME, MR MITTENS, TO DO SOME WORK!

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

This pings me as somewhat LAMIST

That's because im open towning.

Debatable.

Like ultimately, when I push people I want them to respond and argue with me so that I can refine my read based on their responses

This is good to know because im the same. After all, people can fake an alignment but behavioral traits come out at a subconscious level, those cant be faked.

Good argument in favour of Meta really

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

@JacksonVirgo

Hey look the kitty brought us a dead spider

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

I dont like that word, i never intent to shade when im town. I scum hunt

Scum claim! xD

Spoiler: Conclusion!

Guillotina is scum without a doubt for me. the sheer number of contradictions, laziness and demanding behaviors lead me to lockscum this slot. There's been many posts since where he's incriminated himself by being lazy, demanding others do things while he does nothing, and requesting meta information while being anti-meta.

My intention with this ISO was to investigate and confirm a scumread, and honestly nothing can save this slot from my PoV at this time.

Spoiler: Bonus post! Fluff posting comparisons!

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

OK so, DGB has said here it has no problem reading me despite my fluffiness, and in 19 pages it's found nothing wrong with my posts.

You've obviously not read the post.

Now we come to where you've accused me of only posting fluff...

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

This isn't fluff. Fluff doesn't achieve anything, this says I'm doing something and have been distracted by my kids needing me. Yeah we played Stardew, I take mental health seriously.

Has No Elim posted at all?

This is both fluff and laziness, you're aware of the tools available to see if no elim had posted and you didn't use them, instead opting to ask someone else to do your work for you and looking like you're doing something.

I'm quoting this so I can come back to it once I've finished catching up, as holy fuck this is big.

Yeah, I really struggled to pick through this. It would've been more helpful to have a concise summary of the key points rather than an extended post, a fair chunk of which is very speculative. We have a reasonably active playerlist, but given the pace of the game, I can't see all of the plist taking the time to read this

[JacksonVirgo]

oh like tstbs except you've replaced the s's with ws for some reason

Some people like the werewolf theme a lot more, I tend to use both interchangeably as I play a lot of ONUW etc irl

[JacksonVirgo]

DGB kinda feels like it’s caught for the wrong reasons. The tone is really off in 1176

I can see that but nothing too serious imo

[Marky Mark]

What would be really helpful rn would be some reads from toog beyond his vote on HW to help with sorting his slot

--pedit @JV yeah, that interaction if anything looks bad on HW's 1167 as it takes what seemed to me to be a light-hearted post from DGB and twists it to imply that DGB is flip-hunting

[JacksonVirgo]

1267 literally broke the sites formatting

[JacksonVirgo]

I can’t read the green. Can you tldr what your opinion was on Flavor Leaf?

Just change the forum theme temporarily? My forum skin is black.

I don't know what to say about Flea, they could just be too scummy to be scum, or they just are. The list had a very ill intended approach to discredit me and put me on a bad light. I'm not moving them out of my scum list for the time being. They get the Axe for now.

It’s a problem with my eyeballs

We need to converge G.

Oh are you colour blind?

[JacksonVirgo]

JV, Math, guillotine, Nora's aren't getting lynched today

I wouldn't think twice on a horse, infinity, toogers or mark but everyone other than 4 mentioned are fair game

Always stuck in second place. Sad

I am a sad little Mathy.

>:)

You're the first one to come last owo

[JacksonVirgo]

In extension though, are those your general order of reads or?

[JacksonVirgo]

MIN E

Brutal, I think Nero is dead now

[JacksonVirgo]

He's being very blatant about sheeping me, which I have noticed. I certainly don't think he would tie himself to me so clearly if we were both scum. Maybe he is and he's trying to pocket me or something. But I'm not sure.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but this is only my 4th game, what is sheeping?

Sheeping = blatantly following another person and/or recycling their arguments

Or it can be worded like. Someone is a Shephard, you follow their ass because they give you the food before they shave your wool for profit.

[Marky Mark]

JV, Math, guillotine, Nora's aren't getting lynched today

I wouldn't think twice on a horse, infinity, toogers or mark but everyone other than 4 mentioned are fair game

Always stuck in second place. Sad

I am a sad little Mathy.

>:)

You're the first one to come last owo

I mean her four SRs are 4/5 people who were on her wagon, which I can get from their pov but feelsbad to have my name batted around with 2 of my POE :S

[Guillotina]

Hey all - this pace is getting a bit ridiculous.

Pig's lack of analysis/scrutiny continues on - would be really good to get some reads from them

I'm not really getting Math's argument in 1250 that not ending the day early would risk exposing the masons. I mean it's true in the general sense that the more posts that happen, the more information that is out there, which should in theory make PRs and scum both easier to identify, but I don't see how the mason factor affects this, and it concerns me that he is trying to use dodgy logic to get an elim through quickly. Tbf, we are 3 days away from deadline tho so in his defence we probably ought to start bringing things together

While Toogeloo... that aweful vote after Momrangal claimed Mason looks aweful.

Infinity at least has an excuse for keeping the vote on Mom, like Infinity thought Mom was joking with a claim and as soon as Momrangal confirmed it was serious, Infinity unvoted.
I also looked into Infinity's ISO and the posts feel generally townie.

Toogeloo in the other hand, the posts of that slot does not give me town vibes and again, they voted Mom right after she claimed Mason.

hey are ok with yeeting just anyone to generate real reads, they voted the Mason, and his ISO shows complete disinterest for game solving so, so why not just yeet him? Let's generate those real reads with his flip.

These two posts from guillo in tandem stood out to me as the first very much frames their push on toog from a SRing angle, whereas the second seems to phrase it more as a bit of SR but also semi-policy as they aren't making an effort to solve and to see what info we get from the flip

@Guillo - where does your toog vote stand on the spectrum between being SR-based and being policy/utility based?

On the toog note, I've already articulated why I find them scummy and I would like to see a wagon there today so that we can dive into that a bit more. I am, however, willing to be pragmatic and will look for a consensus vote (ideally one that fits with my POE) by the end of today to ensure we have time for due process, if the toog wagon isn't going anywhere or if toog starts towning it up and actually solving

Definitely not a policy yeet read. I dont do policy yeet suggestions unless it is obvious they are trying to gamethrow.

I scum read them. I must note that they give me suicidal vibes, like they are aware how it looks and they don't care, seems like they are baiting themselves to get yeeted. If you look into their ISO there is a post where they say something along the lines of “i considered eliminating you after myself” (this is totally a paraphrase).
So i don't know if they are scum WIFOMing, scum who have given up or a suicidal 3P.

He is definitely anti-town.

[Guillotina]

*Yeets nora a sandwich to munch while reading this.*

Spoiler: OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

Alright let's drop the act for this one, it's clear to me that anything less blunt and to the point commentary is going to be considered by our sharpened steel friend here.

My name is not Joseph! How dare you!

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Guillotina!!!! Ooooweeee

Yaaaah! I'm here to lighten your days yo!

Make your days grand while killing scum!

Which given these have a nice and chill vibe to them amuses me greatly.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

New to the forum right?

MINE

Yah, new to the forum.

VOTE: No Elim. But not like the user no elim, like a vote to not elim

VOTE: No elim

Ok

{. Are you new to the forum or pretending to be new to the forum?

very sad! low energy! lame!

This denotes excitement, wants to get the game going. Horsewoman, it's a 10-day Day phase game.

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

You were bored and you are probably used to fast games.

To some extent, sure. It wasn't entirely serious in tone because I rarely am.

Yah, you've been fucking around.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Not necessarily

Now this is his 4th post, and the game has moved on to page 3, almost page 4.

This is fairly

sharp

shift in tone and seems to be setting up for a SR imo.

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

This is the post of my main read, they're not even trying to post on interactions or anything. The game right now is on page 3, nobody would really have any solid reads at all but it doesn't mean we all just give up and let other's do everything. I first read this as a joke post as I've said, which is why I brushed off Marks read but then when they made that second post I quoted said that it was at least semi-serious and that's plain anti-town behaviour and I'm not going to let that slip regardless if they're Town acting anti-town.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

And then when I called it out for being anti-town behaviour they flipped the wording to make them look like they're actively trying to push the game out of RVS and solve and in extension discredit my case, they're blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from RVS. This is just straight scummy behaviour, what Town would twist the wording in this situation for their own self-gain.

Two questions, 1) do you think HW gave up and let others do everything?

2) In your experience, do all town members behave and act upon posts the same?

Testing the waters maybe? I'm probably stretching here but this is what it feels like to me at the moment.

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

Me too! Hey look you made a fluff post with no point to it, what's the world coming to, hm?

Nice try at discrediting my way of game solving.

First, if the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere is because the content of it didn't. Thank you.
Two, my deep dive allowed me deduce that you attempted to noobtell and miserably failed.
Three, makes me wonder why you tried to noobtell? Either alignment do this, but why did you?

If the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere, then you're not doing it right, quite frankly. Your deep dive was a setup for something that hasn't quite panned out and is now making you look bad.

If you want to call people out for no-contenting, then at least provide some yourself. You can always provide content from nothing.

Ok well im now 99% sure I have soul read on Flea and I think they're scum. Maybe will explain why later. A bit cautious treading in this territory cuz last I SRed Flea, they were town. Gimme some time to think.

Have you explained why already?

You could just read yourself and see.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Now I like this one. "Hah you thought this point but not this point! Therefore you are scum, my dear!"

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

This ones also interesting. The context has been left out, potentially leaving it to be twisted for later deeds. It's a strictly out of game comment aimed at Nora when it comes to my personality beyond the game. You then take this moment to prod me on HW.

barely caring about other people's SRs on you(which is a newbscum tell that says they know the people SRing are right so they are avoiding)

Thinking about it, this feels like an inaccuracy - in my (limited) experience, newbscum tend to panic when people vote them rather than playing it cool like a more seasoned player. Not sure if you are stretching the truth to fit the facts here or have just had a different experience of playing with new players (entirely possible).

Btw - pagetop without even realising until I'd posted #oblivious #ImJustThatGood

This is inaccurate. NoobsScum will ignore and evade town that scum read them by instinct.

A noob town will panic because in their own perspective, they should be obvious town cause they are being honest, so when they get votes they panic because they dont understand it.

Not always. If we were children, maybe.

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

Not at all, just reflecting on my mannerisms ^_^ I am the universal parent friendo

Horsey is sus, but nothing significant as of yet.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

This is setting up for later, it's almost like gut instinct isn't allowed and I'm not allowed have my read without justification.

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Why mention me specifically? This is part of a setup imo.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

I love this.
It's stupidly NAI worded xD

Weird.

Show us where you thought Mark was shading people.

Nah I liked his reply and now TR him. If he starts being scummy again tho, my walls of evidence will come strolling in in some tall high heels like clickety clack clack.

Maybe i was wrong townreading you. This is not how town proceeds.

VOTE: Noraa

Evidence of shading or i'll park this vote.

OBEY ME OR I'M GOING TO JUST be kinda lazy... hm.

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

This is about where I’m at as well although I don’t think all three of those are scum together, I think at least one is though if that makes sense.

Yah i dont think I'm actually God of mafia and found 3 wolves in day 1. But those slots need to get sorted.

Horsewoman is obvscum! I'd yeet her first.

Potential associative? This is an extreme shift though, that pressure vote just *poof* gone faster than a fart in the wind. The vote on Noraa is now serving no purpose.

OK fine I can't help myself OK? This is why I said its half and half

VOTE: horsewoman

Why?

Because she's obvscum, obviously. pfft. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was dumb. I wasnt trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also wasnt discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

Curious again, i never said you did discredit me for any of those things, but if it is in your mind, it's because it's true.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was

smart

. I

WAS

trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also

WAS

discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is

NOT

laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

This is what you are psychologically telling me.

I like these two posts...

Literally Guillotina putting words in mouth and trying to force something that I don't think is there.

This is an impressive Deathtunnel, shame about the execution though.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

LOOOK AT MEEEEE! I'M MR GUUUILLLLOTIIIIIINA!!!!
Attempt at putting pressure back on Noraa, which I sadly know won't work.
"You're obvscum! And I'mma vote yoooou! except you're not so amma vote Noraa instead because she won't OBEY." (✿˘艸˘✿)

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

And yet there's an actual post where I literally just OMGUS'd and I got the best interaction in this game yet from it

Did Noraa froze?

Horsewoman, Llama slot and Noraa is where I'll vote today.

JK, Mark. Whom you'd most likely vote to yeet here?

See this is where I think these constant read lists are a little butt bitey. It's entirely NAI but I find it amusing that these lists are being stuck to like rigidly. There's 3 options and 3 options only. There's no information on town leans and no effort to solve outside these lists IMO.

Helpful PC User EBWOP for him

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

Townie response.

Flea, are you town? Your ISO is more fluff than game solving as of now.

Two in one.
As I've said earlier, I'm fluffy af as a person.o(〃＾▽＾〃)o
My game policy is "I'm here for good time not for long time!"
You cut past the fluff I post, and you'll find content. You have to be willing to work for it, which to me at this point it's clear you're not and I get a frustrated vibe from you towards me because of all this. Partly why I've dropped most of the persona from this ISO so you can read it and not get pissed off I have quite a developed reads list at this point and have fewer nulls than you

Look inside and be afraid, of this impressive mess I've made. If you take a look now you will fiiiiiiiiind! I have done away with lies, done away with paradise, see whats going on inside my miiieeeeennnnnnnd mwahahaha

Has No Elim posted at all?

Just as a friendly pointer, there's the ISO sections which let you look at players in ISOlation, and there's the Activity overview on the bottom that lets you see how active players are and how long since they last posted

As a less friendly note... this be fluff

Ur town play is trash then if that's how you think. OMGUSing is something nearly every newbie does but thinking it is optimal play is pretty bad.

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

The irony.

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

Also, next time I would appreciate if you did take quotes out of context, that's a very scummy thing to do. Do not worry though, I will look into the original posts for context.

Oh, my god. You suck.
A term created by wolves to discredit town pushes... but you want people to OMGUS you...
It's not a bad thing to do, honestly. and for some play styles, it's optimal. I use it occasionally because it gives me information I can work with ¡¡¡( •̀ ᴗ •́ )و!!!
But then I'm a weird player

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

you just called urself scum lol.

Nice try! I did,'t create the term dummy. It's been on existence since way before you started playing this.

See this is why I love Nora, Nora picks up on this shiz but doesn't call it out like I do.
Gulliotina coming in with the strawman defence.

Ok so

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Flea
Nono
DGB
no elim

Scum

Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig
Toogeloo

And now we have a full reads list. All nulls included.

I'll keep my vote on Noraa, but i'm willing to come to a consensus with the people I town read to vote for someone else, as long as that someone else is in my scum list.

I like this.

"You can work with me but I'll only work with you if its in my interests!"

Now Noraa, see this? This is shading!


Flea, would you rather if i negotiated for a yeet in my town read list? How about in my null list? And why?

Double contexter, I actually quite like the response to my shade and it's AI IMO.

To answer the question, town reads not at all, null reads, yes. Absolutely yes. Your nulls should be a main focus IMO. Those are slots you need to sort. Given I've been specifically placed in your null list that means I've done something worthy of your attention, meaning I should be sorted by now. You've at best been idlying playing with your scum reads at this point and I get a lazy cat vibe from you overall.

I can't not say I won't read fae not aligned with anti-town.

Faer fluffy.

I agree.

You went up to null, because you are either a smartass town or God Level WIFOM Mafia.

This is not a valid read to increase the read on someone.
You don't improve a read based on WIFOM drops or someone being a smartass. WIFOM is the weapon of the foul and low.

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Nono
DGB
no elim
Toogeloo

Scum

Flea
Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig

Now we have some meat. Me and Toogs have swapped places. All I did was yeet some shade, and now I'm scum. Toogs was a smartass/WIFOM-bomber and moved up.
This progression is WEEEEERRRRIIIIIIDD!

These posts are going to be your downfall... Your progression on me feels a lil weird.ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

I’m aware i can be wrong and I’m willing to be proven wrong.

Do that instead of posting fluff after fluff. Help me townread you if you are town. If you are wolf, keep doing what you are doing, i love it!

Which is manifested here. Now my posts are fluff after fluff after fluff. That lazy cat vibe is back again. I know there's content in my posts, and so do others. You just have to effort it to find it.

It's then the "Help me help you!" line... of laziness. This is more refusal to do anything and condemning me because of how I play the game. It's another case of "OBEY ME OR ELSE (i'm just going to be lazy and just like.. fluff push you I guess?)".

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Confused why you would pick out Flea specifically as being null (as opposed to the other 9 players implicitly null by not being in your list)?

At the time i had no impressions about others. Only those names.

Flea gave me mixed feelings then, so null.

I still find it odd I was mentioned and looking at it, it looks like a setup for later to me.

Scum reads have to come from somewhere, and I'm not fond of people picking on low hanging fruit

Who is the LHF here?

+1

I've not quoted the follow up posts but its great to have guillotine on the same wavelength (

unless its a pocket

ofc )

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

Cheeky naked vote on consensus SR. Have some scumpoints.

Pig and Nono's 0-context votes seem sus to me, especially when we are getting beyond RVS

Both of these two were V/LA at the time of his push

Yeah, nah. Try harder please. Both dropped a no-context vote

prior

to going V/LA, when the game was getting well beyond RVS. This is a behaviour that is scummy, so I called it out. Would it have been better to ignore it?

Btw lol, I'm loving JV and Guillotine taking Noraa to task on their push on me, before I've replied. Welcome to the

Marky Mark entourage guy

s :3

First bold, if it is a pocket, it’s a town pocket so do not worry. Unless you are wolf, then you should worry as town do pocket wolves too.

Second bold, i know what you are implying here and I love it because that thought process could only come from town.

IIoA-ish. Also I'm glad you know what you meant with the second bold, because I don't.

Horsewoman raised several red flags before i said “definitely scum”.

Do you suggest i pace myself down though?

I'm not seeing them though, and not as being called out from you... You've been on HW since the start of the day with saying she's scummy.

@mark I understand. Still believe HW is scum and until she towns up, she is not getting out of my list.

PFFT. You keep repeating that yet ur vote's on me. LOL.

You got a point. I did say my vote would go to HW if you answered my questions about Mark's shading posts.

I'm a man of my word.

VOTE: Horsewoman

You are still in my scum list though.

I freaking love Nora, she is my kinda chaos - and this to me is one of the definitions of OMGUS, called out for something and bites back.

I said that i would be judging the game based on this game's actions. So any kind of meta is irrelevant to me including people's self meta.

This is worth noting because....

Flea - I wish you'd stop using so many spoiler tags. It makes it easy to miss the content of your posts, which are pretty good.

Early posting looks like honest scum hunting.

Town for now.

Toog - I'm fine with any votes for horse.

But the early serious vote smells of bussing.

Then again maybe I'm just paranoid.

First bold, what early posts from Flea looked like scum hunting? Maybe you are seeing something I'm not.

Second bold, do you really believe there is utility for scum to bus a teammate on D1, when it's really easy to try to do anything else but that? Have you played as scum before?

I think a lot of people are seeing things you're not and there's ALWAYS utility to bus. For someone who has just thrown meta out of the window, why are you interested if someones played a game as an alignment before? That is a form of meta.

Well for one, i purposely change my meta in every game, that way noone can reference meta about me and have to solve me base on the game im playing. Two, I was extremely arrogant and irresponsible in SirCakez game, i FPS, but I'm not ready to do that again in a community where I'm new at, so, you get standard focused Guillo in this one.

"I AM UNREEEEEEAAAAAADABLEEEE!!! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH*coughcoughsplutter*
Sadly as someone who uses a persona to play this game and avoid meta, patterns will always emerge no matter how you try and play. Oh, and self-meta is here

Sorry nornor, that means your soul reads on me aren't on me but on the person and will probably always be wrong <3

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

You're voting away from your 99% soul-read on scum!flea again? Can you explain why you're doing that and why you're voting them when I think they're fairly townie + you give no reasonings here.

Noraa town reads Flea now.

IIoA. Not only that, it's putting words in her mouth. This looks like framing to me.

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Help me see it. Do me a point by point of why I might be wrong about HW.

MEEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!!

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

So is this, honestly. Yes it's NAI and doing nothing in and of itself, however, it's still doing something. I'm not going to explain it to you though, you're a lazy butt.

Just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Noraa is either scum playing dumb or a Naive Town.

Non-commital and sitting on a fence. This right here, is a fluff post. I'll do a comparison after this.

I mean I'm pretty sure horse is new *to this site* but not new to mafia in general. isn't that misleading imo but I can see where the confusion comes from and why someone might misinterpret it as her trying to pull a newb card.

She specifically said " hi, I'm new! Go easy on me"

I made an entire wall about how that was more likely to come from scum

I mean if she's new to this site, she's not familiar with site meta and stuff like that. I find it not crazy to ask for people to go easy on her.

Yeah I just wanted you all not to call me names and stuff, I dont know anyone here is the thing.

Also sorry for not posting anything substantive in aaages, couple of bad mental health days. Sadly the streak will continue as I will be unable to post anything substantive for some hours now.

I'm gonna look like an asshole, but this sounds a lot like AtE. I hope you do get better but I still suspect this slot.

Yes, yes you do. If someone says their mental health is crap you don't throw it at them as AtE to get out of something. Anyone using that as an excuse honestly deserves to be in the bin.

I myself have several conditions that affect my ability to play as much as I would like and people have simply said "No worries, catch up when you can. If you're able are you able to answer these questions for me?"

We're good folk here <3

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like

why bother

stating the obvious assumption being drawn here

when we can all see

what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Also, this did feel like shading. I don't believe you are an idiot if you are playing this game so I don't believe your question was a real one. Then you state that we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey. Who is all? Did you ask each and every one of us to come to that conclusion?

For someone doing absolutely bare minimum themselves, this is a big ask.

I don't have much of a read on that slot, so vote and see.

Nah, I'm not voting outside my scum list, but!

We can scrutinize!

@Momrangal

You scumread Horsewoman and I agree.

Who else do you scum read? Who do you town read?
And more importantly, why?

GIT IN MAH POKIT!

I also wanna point out, theres been no reads lists recently.

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

Now this is revealing.

Care to share games where she's done this. It would be great if you can share a game where she was town and another one where she was mafia and she did this. Because then I could treat it as a behavior pattern rather than an AI.

Dude this is my second game of MS mafia and the first is ongoing.

I'm talking about the alleged "Outside of MS games". Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Damn I wish I could stretch this well...

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Bro you talking like i was trying to hide my mafia experience (which was 72 hour day phases and really casual) but I immediately said I had experience when asked even though i easily could have pretended to be totally new as the forum i played on is now down and I didnt even use this username so nobody was catching me

Wrong, you can't say that you could have easily pretended to be totally new, when it only took two posts to catch you. Let's put it this way, you might be a seasoned player but you are a terrible liar, the problem here is, why you tried to lie to us?

this is beautiful, I think amma cry :')

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

This is a train of thought that I have seen many times that basically goes 'only mafia would care about being lynched/treated badly'. Completely wrong! Being mislynched sucks on an emotional level and it also hurts town on a game level! Town have a huge interest in not being lynched.

See this is what I'm talking about? You want us to town read you but you take posts out of context and AtE to try to get us to not push you, which makes me want to push you more. She is talking about, why would any of us would take it easy on you because you are new? Why would we believe that you are new? Why do we care that you are new or experienced? There are games for newbies here. You could have signed to one of those but you chose to sign up for a no-newbies game, which is fine! But don't expect preferential treatment.

Being myslynched sucks, but that is what towns are destined to be, some of us will have to die, so others can get info out of our deaths and solve the game. Don't take it personally, it is part of the game, don't act like it is not.

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

I will lose my mind, make it real this tiiiiime, to leave it all behind. I won't cry wolf.
Show me a sign, planets will align,
I'm gunna blow my mind. I won't, cry wolf.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

i didn't vote for you because hardcore, ridiculous irrational tunneling usually comes from town, which is what you're doing.

Stop this! We are past that unless you want me to keep tunneling you. I asked you for reads on people, can you please provide them?

Would you kindly, obey? obey. OBEY. OBEY.

Saying "go easy on me" is expecting preferential treatment! Think about that hard.

If you stop engaging with my posts I will never townread you, i think it is in your best interest to convince me that you are town. I'm willing to move past your failed noob gimmick attempt and start over! There are many ways to find out if you are scum or not.

Look, town can lie too, there are many players here that yeet all liars no matter the reasons, I disagree. Town can lie for good reasons, for dumb reasons or just because the slot is a compulsive liar that randed town (not saying that any of these are you), I wanted to see why you tried to lie about that and see if such lie can come from a town slot.
I'm not convinced you are town. tbf.

I'm looking forward to your engagement! Bring me a pelt.

This is going beyond attacking the slot at this point.
Also, MEOW!

Oh I do have a question though, what is 'shading'? Seen people use that term like 10 times this game, no idea what it means. Is it just being sketchy/shady?

Shading is like putting someone on a bad light in bad faith. It's the act of de-valuating, gaslighting and trivializing other people.

You should read this: https://forum.mafia451.com/t/10-psychol ... -mafia/739

Disagree.
Shading is the act of throwing shade and suspicion on a slot and mocking some of the content.
Gaslighting is an abuse tactic.
Devaluing evidence and reads is standard play.
Trivialising people also shouldn't be done as it can drive people down and out. Trivialise the reads and motivations, not the people.

I think Toogeloo is scummy, I just don't know if it's scummy town or just scum. I'm looking closely there but you are right, it's hard to look when the slot is not creating content.

Marky Mark, i generally town lean, but his tone sometimes is... I don't know how to explain it other than, he is either town, or a townie scum. You know like there are scummy towns? Well there are also townie scums. My gut and my brain is fighting over on whether Mark is town or a townie scum.

Noraa, I tend to agree on that one, problem is that everything else from her is bad. Specially her sudden townread on Marky after accusing him of shading and scum reading him for it.

Flea, yah fae have this gimmicky careless approach right? Wonder if that is genuine or it is staged.

Both. Literally both. This ISO is dropping the persona aspect of me and yeah I'm still acting like an idiot

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

But you boosted your Toogs read based on a smartass comment I just want to be loved damnnit!

The thing is, DGBs post says a lot. that you're unable to put the work in and see says a lot.

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

HOW DAAAAARE YOU ASK ME, MR MITTENS, TO DO SOME WORK!

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

This pings me as somewhat LAMIST

That's because im open towning.

Debatable.

Like ultimately, when I push people I want them to respond and argue with me so that I can refine my read based on their responses

This is good to know because im the same. After all, people can fake an alignment but behavioral traits come out at a subconscious level, those cant be faked.

Good argument in favour of Meta really

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

@JacksonVirgo

Hey look the kitty brought us a dead spider

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

I dont like that word, i never intent to shade when im town. I scum hunt

Scum claim! xD

Spoiler: Conclusion!

Guillotina is scum without a doubt for me. the sheer number of contradictions, laziness and demanding behaviors lead me to lockscum this slot. There's been many posts since where he's incriminated himself by being lazy, demanding others do things while he does nothing, and requesting meta information while being anti-meta.

My intention with this ISO was to investigate and confirm a scumread, and honestly nothing can save this slot from my PoV at this time.

Spoiler: Bonus post! Fluff posting comparisons!

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

OK so, DGB has said here it has no problem reading me despite my fluffiness, and in 19 pages it's found nothing wrong with my posts.

You've obviously not read the post.

Now we come to where you've accused me of only posting fluff...

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

This isn't fluff. Fluff doesn't achieve anything, this says I'm doing something and have been distracted by my kids needing me. Yeah we played Stardew, I take mental health seriously.

Has No Elim posted at all?

This is both fluff and laziness, you're aware of the tools available to see if no elim had posted and you didn't use them, instead opting to ask someone else to do your work for you and looking like you're doing something.

I'm quoting this so I can come back to it once I've finished catching up, as holy fuck this is big.

Yeah, I really struggled to pick through this. It would've been more helpful to have a concise summary of the key points rather than an extended post, a fair chunk of which is very speculative. We have a reasonably active playerlist, but given the pace of the game, I can't see all of the plist taking the time to read this

Why not? I would even if it was not directed at me. Do you recommend other players to ignore it? Are you not going to read my equally long reply to that long post? What if i said that my long wall post is more readable than Faer as the fonts were colored to stand out (unless you got ocular problems of course).

To me it was important to reply to her antagonizing ill intended long post on me, i think it is important you read it and my reply to it as well.

[Guillotina]

After some self-examination maybe my scumreading Noraa is based on my red hot dislike of that kind of jumping moonlogik playstyle. Every time I read her posts I want to punch a wall, but everyone else just loves it, so it's me, not her.

Maybe it's best for me to not join games where she's on the player list for my own sanity. I will of course complete my commitment to this game.

In that same vein, I have an affinity for MathBlade and Guillotina posting styles and I have to reckon that there is a part of my psyche that doesn't want to scumread them.

This was my confessional.

Can you elaborate more on this? This felt like a double-pocket attempt, sorry if im wrong.

[Marky Mark]

I scum read them. I must note that they give me suicidal vibes, like they are aware how it looks and they don't care, seems like they are baiting themselves to get yeeted. If you look into their ISO there is a post where they say something along the lines of “i considered eliminating you after myself” (this is totally a paraphrase).

Yeah I totally got the semi-suicidal vibe, like they didn't care how blatant their behaviour was, especially in terms of how they joined and then subesquently left the Momrangal wagon.

[Marky Mark]

Why not? I would even if it was not directed at me. Do you recommend other players to ignore it? Are you not going to read my equally long reply to that long post? What if i said that my long wall post is more readable than Faer as the fonts were colored to stand out (unless you got ocular problems of course).

To me it was important to reply to her antagonizing ill intended long post on me, i think it is important you read it and my reply to it as well.

Clearly I am not recommending other players ignore it - it would be great if everyone read every post in the game. I am, however, a pragmatist, so I was just giving the advice that shorter, more concise dives would probably get more widely read. A lot of it also felt very speculative/borderline confbiased, which I noted you picked up in your response (tbqh I skimmed your response, but will read as time allows). An example of this confbias/stretching is you having them as null in your reads list, which tbf I found odd but made sense when you explained it.

[Guillotina]

Why not? I would even if it was not directed at me. Do you recommend other players to ignore it? Are you not going to read my equally long reply to that long post? What if i said that my long wall post is more readable than Faer as the fonts were colored to stand out (unless you got ocular problems of course).

To me it was important to reply to her antagonizing ill intended long post on me, i think it is important you read it and my reply to it as well.

Clearly I am not recommending other players ignore it - it would be great if everyone read every post in the game. I am, however, a pragmatist, so I was just giving the advice that shorter, more concise dives would probably get more widely read. A lot of it also felt very speculative/borderline confbiased, which I noted you picked up in your response (tbqh I skimmed your response, but will read as time allows). An example of this confbias/stretching is you having them as null in your reads list, which tbf I found odd but made sense when you explained it.

Yah honestly several shorter chunks would have been great.

Thank you for your responses. You are out of my scum list. I wanna town lean you but i wanna be cautious too, you are in probation instead (null)

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

[Noraa]

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

ur poe's always looked like this -__________________________________________-

[Guillotina]

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

ur poe's always looked like this -__________________________________________-

Nah. Horsewoman and Marky used to be there.

[Guillotina]

@Horsewoman who are in your PoE as of now?

[Guillotina]

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

ur poe's always looked like this -__________________________________________-

Nah. Horsewoman and Marky used to be there.

The LlamaMama slot too.

Speaking of which i need to ISO vaxkiller

[Guillotina]

@Vaxkiller what are your reads on the players in my PoE

[DrippingGoofball]

--pedit @JV yeah, that interaction if anything looks bad on HW's 1167 as it takes what seemed to me to be a light-hearted post from DGB and twists it to imply that DGB is flip-hunting

Her stubborn refusal to walk it back when I pointed it out crashed my town read into a pole.

[MathBlade]

The case against horsewoman

1) Opening page 3 Example post

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Her opening was hella bad. She demanded someone do something to end RVS. This implies she didn’t want to think and at minimum sheep. In no way is this a protown mindset. She keeps falling back on “mindset” and trying to explain her actions Townie versus *gasp* being Townie.

2) Vote distribution post bad opening
Before Horsewoman’s bad opening the votes were split between DGB and no elim and some side wagons, typical RVS stuff. In the span of approximately 75 posts the entire board state changes.

Only five users (if I can count) kept their votes in the same place: Toog, Mom (claimed mason), DBG, no elim (now Infinity), and G.

Mom is almost assuredly town. This means unless you think majority of the scum team is in Toog/DBG/Infinity/G then scum reacted to the wagon and dispersed what was present.

This can lead to a few things (listing Horse town first because reasons)
1) One or more of DBG / Infinity are scum and capitalizing on Town Horse’s bad play: This would require an active deep wolf scum like JV or Marky Mark. Votes say probably JV if this is the case for a deep wolf, with Marky Mark a close second. Both DBG and Infinity were inactive during this time and couldn’t cause this scenario so you’d need a loud vocal player.

2) None of DBG/Infinity/Horse are scum. This would mean that scum are active and content with the gamestate. Following this up with 175 which is about the same number of posts but a wildly static vote count. This then branches off into many,many wagons in 378. A state of content doesn’t splinter and create a ton of wagons like that. If town is happy or scum are happy then whichever is leading begins a consolidation through actual votes or manipulating others. Instead we see a dispersal and a 4 person Horsewagon and lots of side wagons.

3) Both infinity and DGB are town and horse is scum. That means town was right in dispersing it’s RVS wagons and ending up on horse. Once the horse wagon picks up steam G plops on it, Horse moves Toog, my slot votes Flea, Nora votes Infinity and Pig votes for no elim (player or elim not sure). While expanding the list none of this is scum productive unless Nora and/or Pig are scum with horse.

4) At least one scum in DGB/Infinity and Horse is scum. This matches the game state a lot. A lone scum messes up in RVS, none of her buddies are online to save her and her only hope is to be Townie enough to not get elimmed. The way infinity sticks to her like paper reminds me a lot of 1841. Source in signature I believe if not next post.

—————

This type of wagon stall is VERY familiar

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85010
In this game I was a Mason and had adequately identified the scum team as FL,Alch,and Outer. Yet Town wanted to do the stupid thing and elim the guilty bringer before the guilty player. Two town immediately rescind VT claims and give scum a whole shit ton of ammo to hide in. Right as I am starting to fix back to the team I accurately had Flavor Leaf convinces Battle Mage to vote with Town beard Titus on NPOM.

At some point feelings and emotions HAVE to be taken out of the equation. If you feel so strongly Horse is town go back and look at the evidence and find who is scum and see if your theory matches the VCA/evidence. If you feel that Horse is scum go back and look at the evidence and who with.

Based on play combined with VCA this really looks like a Horse+DGB game.
Horse despite being a good player has an extremely narrow focus and doesn’t give reads and isn’t hunting for who is trying to sink her because no one scum is imho. All people on Horse are incredibly townread. Her hope is to just survive so she’s going “town mindset”.

Sometimes it is incredibly protown to be antitown.

I really think horse is scum and if she isn’t then we can look at who moved off of her and what wagons and look at JV or Nora.

[DrippingGoofball]

After some self-examination maybe my scumreading Noraa is based on my red hot dislike of that kind of jumping moonlogik playstyle. Every time I read her posts I want to punch a wall, but everyone else just loves it, so it's me, not her.

Maybe it's best for me to not join games where she's on the player list for my own sanity. I will of course complete my commitment to this game.

In that same vein, I have an affinity for MathBlade and Guillotina posting styles and I have to reckon that there is a part of my psyche that doesn't want to scumread them.

This was my confessional.

Can you elaborate more on this? This felt like a double-pocket attempt, sorry if im wrong.

I don't have anything else to say on the topic. I still haven't figured out what "pocket" means. Townreading? Agreeing? Sheeping? Ingratiating oneself? Matching words and actions?

There should be a word for the opposite of whatever it is. Depocket?