Open 802: Jungle Oligarchy [Game Over]

[clidd]

Username, do you have an example of a Plus game that is in line with his behavior here? I would like to take a look.

Great Idea is the game i played with him before. very similar pattern of d1: shallow play that at least had a vague pretense of trying to engage with the game, d2: totally giving up and begging for the noose.

noting that this game seems to be stalling out again, presumably because scum are content with the status quo once more. trying to figure out at which point in the day this wasn't the case and i think i'm coming back around to Klyne scum again? definitely feels like he becomes significantly quieter when attention isn't on him, which is a worrying tendency.

i hate that the scumread i'm actually confident in is on the wrong team so i can't push that today, because i feel like i'm being deeply ineffectual here. like, "we want to hit a wolf today" is great in theory, but now i'm kind of wondering if it wouldn't have been better in practice to kick the wolves can further down the road and just roped the obvious mafia today. ehhhh.

The problem is that in great idea he replaced another slot in a period of the game where there were already 900+ posts, something that probably discouraged him from playing. Bringing it to the context of the match we are in, his claim here is covid, which impacted his energy, but it is not the same reason for the match you mentioned. I mean, I can see similarities in the apathetic playstyle between games, but it is difficult for me to assimilate that to an alignment with the circumstances in which both behaviors occurred.

Looking at this scumgame, however, I noticed that Scum!Plus can manufacture reads:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

This is evident by looking at posts 355, 365, 397 and 402. Scum!Plus does not seem to be intimidated and manages to be aggressive when he wants to. If I take the game above as a reference of what Plus's scumgame looks like, I believe that the exaggerated apathy and the lack of a defense attempt (and the fact that he isn't even trying to show some read) can be a tell from his towngame. But considering that this is a very hypothetical meta scenario, I may need to take a deeper look at Plus games to better understand this.

[iamausername]

I hate this logic

why

[clidd]

i hate that the scumread i'm actually confident in is on the wrong team so i can't push that today, because i feel like i'm being deeply ineffectual here. like, "we want to hit a wolf today" is great in theory, but now i'm kind of wondering if it wouldn't have been better in practice to kick the wolves can further down the road and just roped the obvious mafia today. ehhhh.

I've thought about this a bit. I think your case on MC was definitely the best thing produced today.

I guess the next question is whether more than likely hitting scum is better than taking a guess at a wolf. I go back and forth on that. I suspect if we nailed a wolf, we could figure out quickly who their partner was. But I do think we have a greater chance of missing in a wolf targeted shot today.

VP, what is your read on MC (regardless of the case)?

[iamausername]

Obviously both IAAU and MC can't be scum here

...this kind of feels like a slip

[VP Baltar]

i hate that the scumread i'm actually confident in is on the wrong team so i can't push that today, because i feel like i'm being deeply ineffectual here. like, "we want to hit a wolf today" is great in theory, but now i'm kind of wondering if it wouldn't have been better in practice to kick the wolves can further down the road and just roped the obvious mafia today. ehhhh.

I've thought about this a bit. I think your case on MC was definitely the best thing produced today.

I guess the next question is whether more than likely hitting scum is better than taking a guess at a wolf. I go back and forth on that. I suspect if we nailed a wolf, we could figure out quickly who their partner was. But I do think we have a greater chance of missing in a wolf targeted shot today.

VP, what is your read on MC (regardless of the case)?

I liked him initially when I replaced in because he seemed like he was trying to keep the game moving forward. Since myself and Datisi got here, he's been just playing around the edges and not doing much, which was already concerning me. Username's case helped it click why I was feeling bad vibes from MC.


@Bulge....don't you think you have too many town reads?

[VP Baltar]

Obviously both IAAU and MC can't be scum here

...this kind of feels like a slip

I'm not following.

[innocentvillager]

bulge has never played with scum me but has played with both scum!plus and town!plus

and it’s easier to read me?

damn, my scumgame really is something awful huh

[innocentvillager]

*insert post complaining about how multi ball scumhunting sucks and is different from normal scumhunting*

[iamausername]

Obviously both IAAU and MC can't be scum here

...this kind of feels like a slip

I'm not following.

you know that neither of us are wolves, and therefore we can't both be scum unless we are scum together, which i think is pretty clearly not the case.

like, because you're actually trying to puzzle out who could be scum with plus, you forgot to think about it from a town perspective?

no i guess that's dumb. the sentence is just missing an implied 'with Plus', which could equally just come from town Baltar thinking about who is partnered with Plus.

[Datisi]

iv i am not getting townie vibes from you so if you're town i recommend you step it the fuck up

because if you think i have learned anything after wrongly deathtunnelling you in that last normal, i can assure you that i absolutely did not

[innocentvillager]

Datisi probtown tbh

I haven’t even skimmed the game, I’ll do that at some point today or tmr

[Datisi]

i have a feeling you're not trying to solve my alignment.

[innocentvillager]

except that’s not really a scumtell in multiball right?

[Datisi]

what

[innocentvillager]

everyone wants to solve other people’s alignments because no one knows who all scum are

Scum have the additional burden of knowing their partners alignments and wanting to protect them

granted this is only my second multiball game but that’s part of where the scumhunting difference lies no?

[VP Baltar]

no i guess that's dumb. the sentence is just missing an implied 'with Plus', which could equally just come from town Baltar thinking about who is partnered with Plus.

I also said exactly that moments after I posted since I realized I might not be entirely clear with the point I was making.

I still think the meta you're using to clear Plus seems thin at best. Clidd seems to confirm that skepticism on my part is warranted.

[Datisi]

i seem to have lost the thread of this conversation because i genuinely have no idea what you're saying, iv

this could be (1) me being tired or (2) you being scum and throwing random irrelevant mafia theory to confuse me and because i'm too lazy to look for another wagon right now i'm gonna go with (2)

[innocentvillager]

why are you too lazy to look for another wagon? See if anything THAT’s a scumtell on the surface because scum care less about who gets elim’d than town, even if only a little bit (not saying I scumread you for that)

all I’m saying is even if I wasn’t trying to solve your alignment it’s not really a scumtell because every alignment has natural incentive to sort others.

[VP Baltar]

I don't follow whatever you're saying either fwiw

[innocentvillager]

whatever it’s not that important

[Ahsoka]

I am here for assistance.

[Datisi]

why are you too lazy to look for another wagon? See if anything THAT’s a scumtell on the surface because scum care less about who gets elim’d than town, even if only a little bit (not saying I scumread you for that)

are you gonna pretend to scumread me but not actually attck me because you know that's a fight you are not winning?

[The Bulge]

I hate this logic

why

because the resulting plan is terrible. you're suggesting we ignore hunting the more powerful faction until we are "confident" that we can catch the entire team. when is that ever a good town strategy, regardless of multiball? why not try for some post-flip associatives?

[The Bulge]

@Bulge....don't you think you have too many town reads?

i mean, I have exactly the correct number of townreads so

but no I haven't been feeling a whole lot of paranoia across the board. chalk it up to the slow pace I guess, or the nature of multiball giving scum an easy crutch to appear town.

[The Bulge]

bulge has never played with scum me but has played with both scum!plus and town!plus

and it’s easier to read me?

damn, my scumgame really is something awful huh

for one, plusjoyed is far more obstinate than you. but I was mostly saying he often looks scummy as town, and I horribly misread scumjoyed in illicit substances; more a testament to my inability to read him than my ability to read you.