Newbie 2045: A Midwinter Night's Dream - End!

[petapan]

Hey this is bad form but I don’t want to spend another week wasting time on trying to convince y’all I’m town, so I’m just gonna hard claim that I’m probably a power role.

COME ON MAN

[Illwei]

Activity is typically the best way to catch and read people as both scum and town.

I disagree with this.
I don't like that Turtle isn't posting a lot, and being vague with his (one) post(s) so far, but I find the being vague more possibly condemning than the activity right now.

[Mikul]

I read this as 2) not 1).

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: lunar martian

could do mr turtle as well, quiet or illwei as compromise votes on the grounds of "have said some things i like but aren't hard town reads"

[Mikul]

@ill. Lack of activity is not ai if not isolated

What is ai, is a slip, a flip in logic, a contradiction. You get those from posting and the more posting the harder it is for scum to keep their stories straight because they are faking the reads

[Mikul]

UNVOTE:

Going to vote lunar after updated vote count to make sure he's not in lynch range. He's my compromise so if we won't go with quiet , I'm okay with directing pressure his way.

[BBmolla]

Hey this is bad form but I don’t want to spend another week wasting time on trying to convince y’all I’m town, so I’m just gonna hard claim that I’m probably a power role.

COME ON MAN

shrug

If the Turtle slot doesn't post more in the next day or so I will be voting that way, too much of a wildcard either which way

[Mikul]

I didn't want to do this but I feel it's needed

I think we should pressure molla for his actual role. Because of what he implied when he claimed. There is a very direct reason for this and any experienced player will pick up on it.

@peta thoughts ?

[Mikul]

In my mind based on that breadcrumb he can only be 1 of 2 roles. Curious if we can catch a cc

[Mr Turtle]

@mr turtle
1) summarize your thoughts on the dp
2) who would you like to lynch and why
3) top town and scum reads.

1. The day phase has seemed chaotic to me this far. I feel like a blind man walking through a maze.
2. I'd lynch Quiet, as I said in post #271 something seems off.
3. I've town-read Peta thus far, partially Illwei as well. As for my scum reads I've only really got Quiet.

It's quite overwhelming, honestly. I've been trying to make reads, but I wouldn't call them successful as a clear majority of them are nulls.

that's okay, making reads is hard and if you're new it's to be expected you'll have trouble, seeing as knowing what to look for only comes with experience. can you give your specific feelings on anyone in this game? you don't have to reach conclusions, just talk about their posts and what they make you think.

Quiet seemed like a newer player in the beginning, excited and motivated to play. It kind of gave me a town read on them. As time progressed, I feel like Quiet has shown more skill than I thought he had in the beginning. Enough skill to fake such behavior. I've had doubts on his alignment ever since.
Other than that I can clearly tell that BBMolla, Unwnd, Petapan and Mikul all seem experienced at mafia.

"seeming experienced" doesn't really tell us anything. i guess i'll try to break this down into simpler terms. do you have any other experience playing mafia? (i'm guessing no). have you watched any games? what is towny behavior to you? what is scummy behavior?

I have played mafia and werewolf before. Most of the games I've played have been over Discord, which is a very different environment to here. The rest have been werewolf on a forum, that also have been very, very different from the games on here.
Honestly, I can't tell the difference between towny and scummy behavior as most towny behavior can be faked. I guess that mafia tend to lurk and wagon more? Town are usually more confident, but then again confidence can be faked as well.

[petapan]

Hey this is bad form but I don’t want to spend another week wasting time on trying to convince y’all I’m town, so I’m just gonna hard claim that I’m probably a power role.

COME ON MAN

shrug

If the Turtle slot doesn't post more in the next day or so I will be voting that way, too much of a wildcard either which way

dude cmon you could have talked to me; you shouldn't pull this crap in a newbie game

turtle was the secret scum read i mentioned a while ago but it was sort of predicated on the premise he was going to flake, and he didn't, but certainly could still be scum

[Mikul]

Molla very well could be scum and have an idea what colums we are / are not in. Not directly claiming a role could be a safe thing to do if he's half faking because as scum he would have an informed perspective of what game we are playing

[petapan]

I didn't want to do this but I feel it's needed

I think we should pressure molla for his actual role. Because of what he implied when he claimed. There is a very direct reason for this and any experienced player will pick up on it.

@peta thoughts ?

i don't think there's any necessity to force him into a hardclaim, as annoyed as i am, let mafia guess if there's any value in shooting him or not. i don't think he bothers with that play as mafia here, he'd fight harder before claiming

[Mikul]

@ peta

Okay I feel like this has to be discussed as it is required to explain what I'm thinking.

1) he's vanilla baiting
2) he's claiming a PR to get out of pressure

What is relevant is the fact mafia star the game knowing what collum we start in but not what row. If he's scum he has an idea of what is safe / not safe to claim. By the time town has figured that out , he's bought himself a lot of time and can go 1 on 1 with another pr

Why I think it's relevant to force a claim. He implied thinks there is a doctor. Only can be cop or tracker. I want him to claim because let's say there is a mason. We know he's lying.

[Mikul]

I feel like any ringer would pick up on this. So there is no reason not to force a hard claim even if he is town because he's already heavily narrowed down the claim.

[petapan]

i keep seeing towns get burned by premature pr claims in newbie games and i'm very annoyed by this happening here because it's antitown and goes against the spirit of what these games are supposed to be about, but if he's fakeclaiming he'll be caught out eventually, whereas forcing him into a role can literally only make things worse. leave it alone.

[Mikul]

I don't think there is a reason to leave it alone. Because he is either fake claiming or he's cop or tracker. I would rather tie him to his role and not leave it open to flex in later dayphases in case he is take claiming and decides to take the 1v1

[Mikul]

I will say if he's fake claiming as vanilla or says that. I am auto lynching without a second thought.

[Mikul]

@peta

I see why you are saying it will make things worse but that is assuming one outcome to this and not a second.

[Mikul]

@mod vc?

[quiet]

Well, I certainly picked an interesting day to be busy. Not sure about the mechanics of that BB powerole claim, but it seems...
like it will at least move things forward. But also, objectively bad town play I think? I would think that's something we care about?

Mr Turtle, I am doing my abject best to keep up my excitement for having you in this game, but I don't love your sus on me.

It would be fine if it was just the post you didn't like, but this:

Honestly, I can't tell the difference between towny and scummy behavior as most towny behavior can be faked. I guess that mafia tend to lurk and wagon more? Town are usually more confident, but then again confidence can be faked as well.

If you think that mafia tend to lurk and wagon, which of those two things have I been doing? And people have scumread me based on them thinking I'm faking being non-confident as an empathy play. Some towny players (Mikul) have sussed me for reasons that made me feel like they were town. Your sus did the opposite, and made me feel you were scummy for hopping on Mikul's sentiment.

Give me at least one other person you find suspicious.

[quiet]

I'm going to be busy until midnight EST, but will hop on and get thinking/responding after that.

[petapan]

I have played mafia and werewolf before. Most of the games I've played have been over Discord, which is a very different environment to here. The rest have been werewolf on a forum, that also have been very, very different from the games on here.
Honestly, I can't tell the difference between towny and scummy behavior as most towny behavior can be faked. I guess that mafia tend to lurk and wagon more? Town are usually more confident, but then again confidence can be faked as well.

how have the games you've played typically gone?

also, unrelated, but do you mind getting an avatar? it helps to make your posts stand out. click the "user control panel" link in the top left, the click the "profile" tab and the "edit avatar" link on the left.

[quiet]

Yeah, wait, re-reading that quote....
Mr Turtle, how is it that your description of mafia doesn't 100% match your playstyle so far? "Mafia tend to lurk and wagon more".

I'm not actually hard sus on your or anything, I just really don't like that post.

[fferyllt]

allez