Newbie 2045: A Midwinter Night's Dream - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-10

Zhuangzi

is an ancient Chinese text from the late Warring States period (476–221 BCE) which contains stories and anecdotes that exemplify the carefree nature of the ideal Taoist sage. It, with the Tao Te Ching are considered the foundational works of Tao. The most famous anecdotes in

Zhuangzi

is "Zhuang Zhou Dreams of Being a Butterfly". In this tale, Zhuang Zhou wondered if he was a man who dreamed of being a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming of being a man. Zhuangzi "plays with the theme of transformation", illustrating that "the distinction between waking and dreaming is another false dichotomy. If one distinguishes them, how can one tell if one is now dreaming or awake?"

Lunar Martian

(3): Illwei, quiet, petapan

unwnd

(2): safebet222, BBmolla

BBmolla

(2): unwnd, Lunar Martian

Not Voting

(2): Mikul, Mr Turtle

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: December 27, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2020-12-27 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Mikul]

I have literally no idea how to read turtle.

None.

[BBmolla]

Hey this is bad form but I don’t want to spend another week wasting time on trying to convince y’all I’m town, so I’m just gonna hard claim that I’m probably a power role.

COME ON MAN

shrug

If the Turtle slot doesn't post more in the next day or so I will be voting that way, too much of a wildcard either which way

dude cmon you could have talked to me; you shouldn't pull this crap in a newbie game

turtle was the secret scum read i mentioned a while ago but it was sort of predicated on the premise he was going to flake, and he didn't, but certainly could still be scum

let's talk about it more post game

VOTE: Turtle

[BBmolla]

I have literally no idea how to read turtle.

None.

Here's my scenario for you:

Turtle doesn't get elimmed
Mafia don't kill him obv

So that means if we get to LYLO he's going to be there

Do you want to be in LYLO with Turtle?

I guess there's the off chance he could be a PR and that's like the only scenario where we shouldn't execute him here

[BBmolla]

Molla very well could be scum and have an idea what colums we are / are not in. Not directly claiming a role could be a safe thing to do if he's half faking because as scum he would have an informed perspective of what game we are playing

soudns good let's explore me beign scum tomrorow

[BBmolla]

I don't think there is a reason to leave it alone. Because he is either fake claiming or he's cop or tracker. I would rather tie him to his role and not leave it open to flex in later dayphases in case he is take claiming and decides to take the 1v1

[Illwei]

[quote = Somewhere bb said]
So that means if we get to LYLO he's going to be there
[/quote]

I don't like this line of reasoning, it seems worse than an Info kill to me. It's voting someone out because you think you won't be able to read them later?? and you're kinda preflipping Turtle there as Village.

[Mikul]

@molla.

I agree with most of this.

As town or scum , being in lylo with a person that has like 3 posts is likely not fun or impossible to read

Before we move on from that. I would really like you to hard claim

[BBmolla]

I will say if he's fake claiming as vanilla or says that. I am auto lynching without a second thought.

sounds good let's explore all this tomorrow

[Illwei]

ignore that quote I forgot quotation marks this is fine

[BBmolla]

I would really like you to hard claim

i will hard claim that I am probably a power role

any more than that you can find out from my flip

[petapan]

I have literally no idea how to read turtle.

None.

Here's my scenario for you:

Turtle doesn't get elimmed
Mafia don't kill him obv

So that means if we get to LYLO he's going to be there

Do you want to be in LYLO with Turtle?

I guess there's the off chance he could be a PR and that's like the only scenario where we shouldn't execute him here

i agree with the fundamental idea that mr turtle should be elim'd before ELo unless he starts contributing or claims a power role that isn't counter claimed. don't know if i want to do it day 1 when i can learn more voting elsewhere but depends a lot on how he answers my questions

[BBmolla]

[quote = Somewhere bb said]
So that means if we get to LYLO he's going to be there

I don't like this line of reasoning, it seems worse than an Info kill to me. It's voting someone out because you think you won't be able to read them later?? and you're kinda preflipping Turtle there as Village.[/quote]
I mean

If they're scum then executing them in LYLO is not a concern

if Turtle is scum it's more about the fact that their unengagement will always allow them to get away with not playing the game thus not allowing us to catch them

[Mikul]

@ill what he is saying is kinda right sadly. Imagine getting to lylo as town with turtle alive. There is nothing to generate a read off of. I mean maybe read the other guy and poe

I'm torn between whether he's straight lurking or if he's telling the truth about being overwhelmed.

Having this similar issue with quiet. Its very hard to read new players because they can dismiss scummy behavior by saying they are new.

[BBmolla]

I have literally no idea how to read turtle.

None.

Here's my scenario for you:

Turtle doesn't get elimmed
Mafia don't kill him obv

So that means if we get to LYLO he's going to be there

Do you want to be in LYLO with Turtle?

I guess there's the off chance he could be a PR and that's like the only scenario where we shouldn't execute him here

i agree with the fundamental idea that mr turtle should be elim'd before ELo unless he starts contributing or claims a power role that isn't counter claimed. don't know if i want to do it day 1 when i can learn more voting elsewhere but depends a lot on how he answers my questions

we have 8 days so I'm fine waiting

If they start playing and start townpinging I'm all for not executing

but so far their content is nigh unreadable

but let's see what happens

[Mikul]

VOTE: molla

I am willing to call your bluff on that. If it takes a flip to get a claim, I will take the flip.

[BBmolla]

nah I won't out you

[BBmolla]

VOTE: molla

I am willing to call your bluff on that. If it takes a flip to get a claim, I will take the flip.

okay

[BBmolla]

what's the benefit in elimming me today instead of tomorrow

[fferyllt]

vote count errors have been corrected.

[petapan]

we have 8 days so I'm fine waiting

If they start playing and start townpinging I'm all for not executing

but so far their content is nigh unreadable

but let's see what happens

yeah i get it i'm just trying to get him to talk

[petapan]

mikul i'm telling you: leave him well enough alone and if he's alive tomorrow force him to hardclaim

[Mikul]

Gives you more time to work out what you are doing. I don't necessarily want to eliminate you. I want to tie you to something. After things happen it's alot easier to walk back or tailor your soft / breadcrumb to what happened. Forcing you into something makes claiming a lot harder to walk back if conflicting stuff happens.

[BBmolla]

Gives you more time to work out what you are doing. I don't necessarily want to eliminate you. I want to tie you to something. After things happen it's alot easier to walk back or tailor your soft / breadcrumb to what happened. Forcing you into something makes claiming a lot harder to walk back if conflicting stuff happens.

Hard claiming helps scum more than town

Explain why you disagree with this statement so I can work through it with you

[Mikul]

@ peta.

Again I know why you are saying this. Because of what it forces. But if he's lying , I'm telling you we are going to end up on a weird 1v1 or him totally walking back what he is saying. One that he will get a pass on from most people.