Newbie 2045: A Midwinter Night's Dream - End!

[safebet222]

I agree with BB here... we have 8 days and we need to sort Turtle. This is more important that pushing unwnd...

UNVOTE: unwnd

VOTE: Turtle

[unwnd]

BBMolla is just being lazy and believes that lessening the PoE by claiming town will benefit us in the longrun

UNVOTE:

[Mikul]

Molla

1) you are town as either a pr or vanilla. You claiming forces scum to pick whether they buy that or whether they are going after a vanilla. This could be true regardless of your role. That's the town motivation

2) the scum motivation is claiming a PR after everyone except me basically had you as a scum pick. This takes pressure off you and redirects it. What not claiming allows you to do by dp2 is look at flips and walk back your soft claim and breadcrumb. Tying you to this dp gives better odds of catching you on a cc/contradiction. You say cop , but there are collums that don't line up etc

Also could imply you are scum , and that you have a roleblocker. So you know we start in collum 1. Since that is the case there is a 66 percent chance of a doctor being in the game. So it let's you hinge on that your cop or tracker and take a 1v1 when someone claims that.

[BBmolla]

@ peta.

Again I know why you are saying this. Because of what it forces. But if he's lying , I'm telling you we are going to end up on a weird 1v1 or him totally walking back what he is saying. One that he will get a pass on from most people.

I’ll hard claim tomorrow, if I 1v1 someone then we’re guaranteed to get one scum

Which considering 1/7 town is ~15% of the town and 1/2 scum is 50% of the scum it’s a good trade

[safebet222]

You have no idea how long that took me to post.

[Mikul]

@molla

Okay when tomorrow comes around. If you claim vanilla my vote is not moving for the rest of the game until you die.

[Mikul]

UNVOTE:

[BBmolla]

@molla

Okay when tomorrow comes around. If you claim vanilla my vote is not moving for the rest of the game until you die.

Do what you will.

[safebet222]

mikul, can you explain to me exactly why you think quiet is not being forthcoming about his experience? You said my arguments about you are bull, but I really just don't understand what makes you think that about quiet.

[Mikul]

@saftebet


Sorry. That was null*. I mentioned typos

[Mikul]

My phone has a horrible habbit of auto correcting because I shit post on discord. So it auto corrects to not so nice things.

[safebet222]

Oh... ok. Can you still explain? It'd help me quite a bit.

[Mikul]

Sure there is a lot of tells in his posting that he has a deeper understanding of the game than someone that is totally new. Turtle for example is how I would expect someone to play that has little to no experience. Quiet has a deeper understanding of terminology and practices that are not so common.

Even the site I use and they play a lot of mafia , could not tell you what ai is or what rvs is. They do it but not by name. I kept throwing terms around to see if he could follow the conversation intentionally and he understood what they all meant.

[Mikul]

To clarify he has an understanding of terms that most plebs would not understand. So either he has played in games or read enough games to be confident enough in lingo/terminology that he's not "new". Which makes me think a lot of his posts are forced and fake.

[safebet222]

Thanks. I'm kinda laughing cause bull fits pretty well as well... null is the mafia version of BS most of the time, isn't it?

[Mikul]

I haven't heard but wouldn't surprise me lol

[quiet]

Even the site I use and they play a lot of mafia , could not tell you what ai is or what rvs is. They do it but not by name. I kept throwing terms around to see if he could follow the conversation intentionally and he understood what they all meant.

have a test in 2 hours, but I'm an addict and I need my fix.

I didn't know AI at the start of the game. At first, I thought it meant automatic, phoned in, or mechanical play like an AI would do. Didn't make sense in context, so I looked it up on the wiki. Alignment Indicative. Makes sense, not conceptually difficult. (My fav lookup so far has been IC meaning Inexperience Challenged, which is pretty hilarious). Other things, like WIFOM? I read that page like, three times, and I can understand the concept, but I would not be able to apply that in a game effectively. When someone throws that phrase around, yeah, no idea what to do with it. That one is a lot more challenging.

I knew RVS by name from my first intro to mafia, which was watching pretty high level zoom mafia where they threw that exact phrase around. It's also the first thing that pops up when you start looking at strategy, and the very first thing that happens in any game. I'm putting a decently high amount of effort into this game, and am doing my best to actively get better. Mind you, my play is far from optimal. Playing town, getting read as scum, means I'm not doing my job right. That's where the newbie thing comes out. Understanding concepts and language is easy, playing the game is hard.

Where you might see more of my inexperience come out to play is in a situation like what just went down. BBMola claims a power role, it's time to start sorting Mr. Turtle, now we can theoretically cut down the...what, solution space? number of possible permutations of the setup that it could be, but also narrowing the space for scum to fake claim? I think I can understand that. I have zero clue how to capitalize on it, how to leverage what just happened to make better reads, what the mechanics of this setup are, because when you watch mafia, you don't have to do the mechanics yourself. You just get to watch other people solve the mechanics for you, and then feel smart for following their logic. You guys are throwing out what his soft claim might possibly imply about the setup. I had to go re-read the setup a few times, and I still don't know what mechanically BB's claim results in. Someone is going to have to break down the logic chain for me, because I am absolutely sure that we gained/will gain tomorrow a decent amount of information as a result of it, but I don't know how to get the most out of it.

I got into wanting to play mafia because I'm interested in game theory, mostly from the POV of incomplete information games like you might find in poker (or the stock market, and especially in applications to supply chain or systems). I'm an engineer, I do data analytics stuff. At some point, I'll probably start doing heuristics and trying to develop mixed strats or god knows what else; it's the social deduction stuff that is going to be the most new to me. I've played Coup a good amount, that's a fun game, but it's nothing like this.

The last thing I'll note:
If I recall correctly, some of your sus was over what you saw as empathy plays. Naked, obvious, empathy plays, that to me were jokes. That, right there, is inexperience. Understanding and researching and working hard to pick up on and use the right language is something a new player can do. Knowing how to say hello in a thread? How to post succinctly, give good info, form good reads? There's no way to practice that or research that, other than to maybe try to emulate other posters, and I have zero interest in doing that. I can understand getting scumread, that happens. Strangely, I'm almost more frustrated that I'm getting anti-newbie read, and that the anti-newbie read is leading to a scum feeling.

I discussed the forced and fake thing specifically in a previous post. I don't recall you ever responding to it. Reading games, watching games =/= not new. Not by a long shot. Playing is totally different. You don't have the answers before you start. You have to actually talk to people. That's the stuff I have no idea how to do, and am just making up as I go along. I can guarantee you that in my next game, I'm not going to make a joke about sheeping unwnd and having him teach me his ways of catching scum. Good god, that's one of his first posts, that he wanted to "guide" newbies. I asked him to be my "guiding hand". I just thought it would be a funny and interesting way to jump in.

If there's other stuff I can do to try and clarify, to help sort my alignment, let me know. I think I've addressed the "forced and fake" read already, and I'd ask you to at least revisit that post and then tell me why it's not convincing to you. I have a strong town read on Mikul, which means I can't infinitely allow Mikul to sus me.

[quiet]

Also, until I get answers for my questions of Mr. Turtle, I'm going to vote them.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mr. Turtle
That should be E-2

[Illwei]

It's so tempting
to put him at E-1

[quiet]

do it. Someone better have a damn good reason if they hammer.

[quiet]

One of the "ringers" can unvote if they think this is mechanically terrible for some reason.

And I swear, Mikul, if you sus me more for picking up on the incredibly obvious context clues for what ringer means (I didn't even have to wiki this one), I think I'll just have to stop trying.

[Mikul]

The issue I have with that post is it seems genuine but I don't buy into it. You are very well worded, and very very careful about what you type. When I post something in response to you, you feel the need to explain away or defend my sus from you within an hour of posting when youve only posted like 3 or 4 times in the past day prior to this. It really pegs me the wrong way. Christ new players are so hard to read sometimes. This entire post is what I was mentioning. I'm new, i want to learn to play, i'm trying my best. It actually makes me feel bad for wanting to lynch you.

if you are scum bravo. Cus you have me feeling bad about my own read lmao

[quiet]

and if I'm town? then I'm throwing a bit, for pinging you all kinds of wrong.
I didn't think about signalling townyness as a town. I thought I could just play, and it would come out. Apparently, even as a town, you have to work to seem towny.

And yeah, I've been quiet, as I mentioned, test. I just really want to sort out the whole you sussing me thing.
I'm cutting myself off until tonight.

[quiet]

wait, I lied, one last thing. Optimally, shouldn't a town....defend themselves, when they think a strong town is sussing them? The sus from Mr. Turtle bothers me considerably less than yours.

[petapan]

Where you might see more of my inexperience come out to play is in a situation like what just went down. BBMola claims a power role, it's time to start sorting Mr. Turtle, now we can theoretically cut down the...what, solution space? number of possible permutations of the setup that it could be, but also narrowing the space for scum to fake claim? I think I can understand that. I have zero clue how to capitalize on it, how to leverage what just happened to make better reads, what the mechanics of this setup are, because when you watch mafia, you don't have to do the mechanics yourself. You just get to watch other people solve the mechanics for you, and then feel smart for following their logic. You guys are throwing out what his soft claim might possibly imply about the setup. I had to go re-read the setup a few times, and I still don't know what mechanically BB's claim results in. Someone is going to have to break down the logic chain for me, because I am absolutely sure that we gained/will gain tomorrow a decent amount of information as a result of it, but I don't know how to get the most out of it.

if he's town, there's a decent chance mafia just kill him overnight and we don't have to worry about figuring out his role. if he lives, tomorrow he should hard claim his specific role. if no one counter claims, either by claiming his role or an incompatible role from a different setup, the he's probably town.