PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[mastina]

Yes.

vt

That makes it my turn.

VT.

As far as reads go, lemme just post this quickly so that the reads are in a separate post that's easier to read and find, but basic cliffnotes:
I cannot in good faith betray the trust of pichu and thus feel obligated to sheep pichu on Ydrasse/PBE being town, and overall I still feel Solstice is town, so the pool I am looking at is {Spiffeh, Dunnstral, Dr Easy Bake, Toogeloo} but I wanna extrapolate on that in a separate post dedicated to the reads, lemme post that and then give me like...half an hour or so to write it up.

Alive Players:

Spiffeh
Polar Bear Express (Noraa and Gloria Cleary)
Ydrasse
Solstice (Mistyx and Morning Tweet)
Toogeloo
Dr Easy Bake
Dunnstral
Ircher

With the masons alive, this is the players left to sort.

There's three scum left, so it is appropriate to reevaluate townreads, but...

I really really really want to sheep pichu in his faith in Ydrasse and Polar Bear Express. As I seem to recall, those two slots were among his top townreads and I really really want to trust him on them. So I really want to have faith that pichu was correct, and write them off as town.

Ircher I have felt has been pretty town the entire game long. His handling of everything, as well as his stances, have felt like they came from town. He's been reasonable, rational, and overall felt like he was coming from a town mindset and not playing to FL's gameplan. While I realize that there could be deepscum, I just don't think it's him.

Solstice actually looks far better overall to me today in my opinion. I've really loved Morning Tweet's contributions and feel that MT's assessment of the claims yesterday was highly highly town. Misty's lowered presence is a bit concerning, but she's looked town while around and overall the slot has been acting in a way that I don't think scum act in this game.

Which leaves:
Spiffeh
Toogeloo
Dr Easy Bake
Dunnstral

4 names for 3 scum.

I think there's no world in which Toogeloo is town--he is pretty much lockscum here.

Dunnstral could be town or scum here, but his status is pretty much dependent on the other two, which bring to mind the following questions:

Do the scum have a deepscum player who was fairly active?

If the answer to this is yes, then Spiffeh is scum, because he's the only player among the four to meet that criteria. He's been active and reasonably town, but very easily could be scum. But there's quite possibly the chance of 'no'--in which case, all of the scum were in the lurkers and Spiffeh is town. If Spiffeh is town, then Dunnstral is scum and DEB is scum, but if he's scum, then one of them is town.

I personally would feel guilty eliminating Spiffeh today regardless of his alignment. If he's scum I kinda want to pay him the respect of leaving him until there's three scum dead. And if he is town, I feel I owe that to him to help give him the time to prove that he is town by helping the town eliminate scum. But this is one of the main questions I need to figure out an answer for; if Spiffeh is the scum's deepscum, or if the scum didn't have any deepscum.

Did the scum plan a double-detective claim?

If the answer to this is yes, then Dr Easy Bake is scum. But there is at least the chance that this is a 'no'--in which case, if he is town, then Spiffeh and Dunnstral are both scum. I can see the case either way here, but since DEB is claiming he has a spicy result, he might be town here.

It should be noted; for Dunnstral to be town, it requires the scum to have an active deepscum (Spiffeh)

and

for scum to have planned a double-detective claim (DEB).

At daystart, I was thinking Toogeloo-DEB-Dunn with a chance of Spiffeh, but while my thoughts are still not fully formed yet, I can't really properly form full thoughts right now (I took a nap while I was waiting to wake up in the hopes that it would kickstart my brain but my brain is still in 'waking up' mode right now so I'm not fully firing on all cylinders), but right now I actually lean towards Spiffeh-Dunnstral-Toogeloo.

I do feel the need to reiterate; no matter what, I think Toogeloo is scum here. I don't think that the scumteam is ever Spiffeh-Dunnstral-DEB here.
Which is why I feel like my vote there is the best overall.

I also think that, while Dunnstral has done a fair amount to look town, there is a certain level of resonance in him being scum--I can explain my scumread on Toogeloo quite well, but on Dunnstral while the thoughts don't form as easily it just resonates on a gut level as being overall something that I see.

Similarly, DEB being town is something I've no evidence for, just gut. I am still concerned about the possibility that he's scum with the whole stunt being a double-fakeclaim, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, if we do eliminate two scum, then DEB will produce innocents--if he is a real detective, FL will literally be forced to kill him or else risk generating hard-clears. If he isn't a real detective, that'll become more obvious with time. So he shouldn't be the elimination yet, maybe ever.

Spiffeh is someone who I can't really sort as town or scum conclusively right now, but if my assumptions on who are town is correct, then he'd by necessity be the third scum.

So overall, right now my preferred elimination order would be: Toogeloo > Dunnstral > Spiffeh > Dr Easy Bake.

Forgot a technical readslist:

Double the Trouble
MURDERCAT
Creature

Polar Bear Express
Ydrasse

Ircher
Solstice



DEB

Spiffeh

Dunnstral

Toogeloo

[Ircher]

Okay so it's Ydrasse's turn.

[Polar Bear Express]

These masons were literally my top three SRs. fml. also pichu

-nornor

[mastina]

It's delusional for you to think I didn't plan for a bus this game, though. I bus every game I'm scum with Mastina in it.

Okay, but like:

Spiffeh

(1): Dunnstral

This is the only possible earliest-stage bus.

Dunnstral

(2): pichu, Ydrasse

Ircher

(2): Netflix and Chill, Spiffeh

This is the next possible bus point, Ydrasse bussing Dunnstral or Spiffeh bussing Ircher. (Or Dunn on PBE, missed that.)

Polar Bear Express

(3): mastina, Dunnstral, Creature

Dunnstral

(1): Ydrasse

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

This is the next one, with Dunn still on PBE, or Ydrasse still on Dunn, or Spiffeh on Solstice.

So far, the only one of these that looks like it would be a serious bus would be if Dunnstral bussed PBE, which I don't think he was. Otherwise, these wagons don't do much.

Polar Bear Express

(2): Creature, Toogeloo

Dr Easy Bake

(2): Dunnstral, Bell

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

Ydrasse

(1): Ircher

This is the next possible bus point. Dunn hopped off of PBE but Toogeloo hopped on--replacing the Dunn-bussing possibility with the Toog-bussing possibility. However, more likely than either is that one scum went on when the other went off and that the wagon is on town.
DEB could very well be a bus here, with Dunn and Bell both there tho, that I'll acknowledge.

Ircher

(6): Solstice, Netflix and Chill, MURDERCAT, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Toogeloo

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

Ydrasse

(1): Ircher

This is the next possible bus point, with Ircher as scum, with one scum confirmed on the wagon (Bell) and any number of possible others--Solstice/PBE/Toogeloo. But overall, it looks more likely that Ircher is town here.

Ircher

(6): Solstice, Netflix and Chill, MURDERCAT, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake

This is the next possible point of bussing, if Ircher is scum, replacing Toogeloo with DEB.

Solstice

(6): Dunnstral, pichu, Double the Trouble, Not Known 15, Netflix and Chill, Spiffeh

Ircher

(3): Bell, Dr Easy Bake, Solstice

This is the next possible point of scum bussing, if at least one of Dunn/Spiffeh is scum and Solstice is also scum. But this looks more like scum taking advantage of a flashwagon on town.

Polar Bear Express

(2): MURDERCAT, Toogeloo

Bell

(2): Ircher, Double the Trouble

Spiffeh

(1): Bell

This is the first possible point of bussing, and at this stage, sure, probably is some! But if given the choice between "Toogeloo bussed PBE", "Ircher bussed Bell", and "Bell bussed Spiffeh", the last by far looks more likely than the other two.

Bell

(5): Ircher, Double the Trouble, pichu, Solstice, Ydrasse

By this point, Ydrasse and Solstice are possible scum bussing, but the wagon still felt pure at this point.

Bell

(6): Ircher, pichu, Solstice, Ydrasse, mastina, Toogeloo

Gee, I wonder who the scum bussing Bell here would be???

Bell

(7): Ircher, pichu, Ydrasse, mastina, Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake, Double the Trouble

And here it is possible DEB is scum bussing, I admit that. Due to the whole double-detective claim, and all that. (PBE is possible, but less likely.)

Bell

(8): Ircher, pichu, Ydrasse, mastina, Dr Easy Bake, Solstice, Polar Bear Express, Bell

Dr Easy Bake

(1): Dunnstral, MURDERCAT

Well, hey, scum bussed scum for sure as Bell voted Bell.
Otherwise, only scum bussing possible is Dunn bussing DEB (possible I admit), or PBE/Solstice/Ydrasse/Ircher bussing Bell (doubtful), or DEB bussing Bell (possible I admit).

So overall: bussing? Not something which looks particularly likely here overall, by and large.

[mastina]

However, we are 3 scum, 3 masons, 6 townies, so you're actually in a worse spot than friends and enemies on numbers alone, Night 1 and 2 you lost a doctor and a cop, and now you outed the masons.

Not counting remaining town PRs there may have

There's this, too.

There's three masons, a vig, and if DEB's claim is legitimate, a detective.
That's 4-5 players the scum cannot eliminate during the day but need to eliminate during the night.

4-5 players, out of 11.

With 4-5 players out of 11 uneliminatable during the day, that's 6-7 players as the elimination pool...with three scum in it. Basically, a minimum of 50% shot at eliminating scum today.

Nightkill one, and tomorrow it's 3-4 uneliminatable out of 8-9 (depending on if the vig gets a shot off). Still a 50% shot at eliminating scum.
Nightkill another, and on D5 it's 2-3 uneliminatable out of 5-7 (depending on if the vig gets a shot off). Still pretty good odds.
Nightkill another, and on D6 it's 1-2 uneliminatable out of 2-5 (depending on if the vig gets a shot off). If 2 conftown are alive out of two players, that's obviously a town win. If there's two conftown alive out of three town players, still a town win. If it's two conftown alive out of 4-5 players, still pretty damn good odds.
If 5 were alive and there's another nightkill, that's 0-1 uneliminatable come 3p lylo.

But overall I'd say the masons are right to be smug in their chances of victory.

[Alisae]

It's delusional for you to think I didn't plan for a bus this game, though. I bus every game I'm scum with Mastina in it.

Okay, but like:

Spiffeh

(1): Dunnstral

This is the only possible earliest-stage bus.

Dunnstral

(2): pichu, Ydrasse

Ircher

(2): Netflix and Chill, Spiffeh

This is the next possible bus point, Ydrasse bussing Dunnstral or Spiffeh bussing Ircher. (Or Dunn on PBE, missed that.)

Polar Bear Express

(3): mastina, Dunnstral, Creature

Dunnstral

(1): Ydrasse

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

This is the next one, with Dunn still on PBE, or Ydrasse still on Dunn, or Spiffeh on Solstice.

So far, the only one of these that looks like it would be a serious bus would be if Dunnstral bussed PBE, which I don't think he was. Otherwise, these wagons don't do much.

Polar Bear Express

(2): Creature, Toogeloo

Dr Easy Bake

(2): Dunnstral, Bell

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

Ydrasse

(1): Ircher

This is the next possible bus point. Dunn hopped off of PBE but Toogeloo hopped on--replacing the Dunn-bussing possibility with the Toog-bussing possibility. However, more likely than either is that one scum went on when the other went off and that the wagon is on town.
DEB could very well be a bus here, with Dunn and Bell both there tho, that I'll acknowledge.

Ircher

(6): Solstice, Netflix and Chill, MURDERCAT, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Toogeloo

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

Ydrasse

(1): Ircher

This is the next possible bus point, with Ircher as scum, with one scum confirmed on the wagon (Bell) and any number of possible others--Solstice/PBE/Toogeloo. But overall, it looks more likely that Ircher is town here.

Ircher

(6): Solstice, Netflix and Chill, MURDERCAT, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake

This is the next possible point of bussing, if Ircher is scum, replacing Toogeloo with DEB.

Solstice

(6): Dunnstral, pichu, Double the Trouble, Not Known 15, Netflix and Chill, Spiffeh

Ircher

(3): Bell, Dr Easy Bake, Solstice

This is the next possible point of scum bussing, if at least one of Dunn/Spiffeh is scum and Solstice is also scum. But this looks more like scum taking advantage of a flashwagon on town.

Polar Bear Express

(2): MURDERCAT, Toogeloo

Bell

(2): Ircher, Double the Trouble

Spiffeh

(1): Bell

This is the first possible point of bussing, and at this stage, sure, probably is some! But if given the choice between "Toogeloo bussed PBE", "Ircher bussed Bell", and "Bell bussed Spiffeh", the last by far looks more likely than the other two.

Bell

(5): Ircher, Double the Trouble, pichu, Solstice, Ydrasse

By this point, Ydrasse and Solstice are possible scum bussing, but the wagon still felt pure at this point.

Bell

(6): Ircher, pichu, Solstice, Ydrasse, mastina, Toogeloo

Gee, I wonder who the scum bussing Bell here would be???

Bell

(7): Ircher, pichu, Ydrasse, mastina, Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake, Double the Trouble

And here it is possible DEB is scum bussing, I admit that. Due to the whole double-detective claim, and all that. (PBE is possible, but less likely.)

Bell

(8): Ircher, pichu, Ydrasse, mastina, Dr Easy Bake, Solstice, Polar Bear Express, Bell

Dr Easy Bake

(1): Dunnstral, MURDERCAT

Well, hey, scum bussed scum for sure as Bell voted Bell.
Otherwise, only scum bussing possible is Dunn bussing DEB (possible I admit), or PBE/Solstice/Ydrasse/Ircher bussing Bell (doubtful), or DEB bussing Bell (possible I admit).

So overall: bussing? Not something which looks particularly likely here overall, by and large.

Pooky has a votecount or 2 in his ISO that I asked him to post.
Even looking at those those indicate that all town was being wagoned to me

[Double the Trouble]

It's delusional for you to think I didn't plan for a bus this game, though. I bus every game I'm scum with Mastina in it.

Okay, but like:

Spiffeh

(1): Dunnstral

This is the only possible earliest-stage bus.

Dunnstral

(2): pichu, Ydrasse

Ircher

(2): Netflix and Chill, Spiffeh

This is the next possible bus point, Ydrasse bussing Dunnstral or Spiffeh bussing Ircher. (Or Dunn on PBE, missed that.)

Polar Bear Express

(3): mastina, Dunnstral, Creature

Dunnstral

(1): Ydrasse

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

This is the next one, with Dunn still on PBE, or Ydrasse still on Dunn, or Spiffeh on Solstice.

So far, the only one of these that looks like it would be a serious bus would be if Dunnstral bussed PBE, which I don't think he was. Otherwise, these wagons don't do much.

Polar Bear Express

(2): Creature, Toogeloo

Dr Easy Bake

(2): Dunnstral, Bell

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

Ydrasse

(1): Ircher

This is the next possible bus point. Dunn hopped off of PBE but Toogeloo hopped on--replacing the Dunn-bussing possibility with the Toog-bussing possibility. However, more likely than either is that one scum went on when the other went off and that the wagon is on town.
DEB could very well be a bus here, with Dunn and Bell both there tho, that I'll acknowledge.

Ircher

(6): Solstice, Netflix and Chill, MURDERCAT, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Toogeloo

Solstice

(1): Spiffeh

Ydrasse

(1): Ircher

This is the next possible bus point, with Ircher as scum, with one scum confirmed on the wagon (Bell) and any number of possible others--Solstice/PBE/Toogeloo. But overall, it looks more likely that Ircher is town here.

Ircher

(6): Solstice, Netflix and Chill, MURDERCAT, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake

This is the next possible point of bussing, if Ircher is scum, replacing Toogeloo with DEB.

Solstice

(6): Dunnstral, pichu, Double the Trouble, Not Known 15, Netflix and Chill, Spiffeh

Ircher

(3): Bell, Dr Easy Bake, Solstice

This is the next possible point of scum bussing, if at least one of Dunn/Spiffeh is scum and Solstice is also scum. But this looks more like scum taking advantage of a flashwagon on town.

Polar Bear Express

(2): MURDERCAT, Toogeloo

Bell

(2): Ircher, Double the Trouble

Spiffeh

(1): Bell

This is the first possible point of bussing, and at this stage, sure, probably is some! But if given the choice between "Toogeloo bussed PBE", "Ircher bussed Bell", and "Bell bussed Spiffeh", the last by far looks more likely than the other two.

Bell

(5): Ircher, Double the Trouble, pichu, Solstice, Ydrasse

By this point, Ydrasse and Solstice are possible scum bussing, but the wagon still felt pure at this point.

Bell

(6): Ircher, pichu, Solstice, Ydrasse, mastina, Toogeloo

Gee, I wonder who the scum bussing Bell here would be???

Bell

(7): Ircher, pichu, Ydrasse, mastina, Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake, Double the Trouble

And here it is possible DEB is scum bussing, I admit that. Due to the whole double-detective claim, and all that. (PBE is possible, but less likely.)

Bell

(8): Ircher, pichu, Ydrasse, mastina, Dr Easy Bake, Solstice, Polar Bear Express, Bell

Dr Easy Bake

(1): Dunnstral, MURDERCAT

Well, hey, scum bussed scum for sure as Bell voted Bell.
Otherwise, only scum bussing possible is Dunn bussing DEB (possible I admit), or PBE/Solstice/Ydrasse/Ircher bussing Bell (doubtful), or DEB bussing Bell (possible I admit).

So overall: bussing? Not something which looks particularly likely here overall, by and large.

Pooky has a votecount or 2 in his ISO that I asked him to post.
Even looking at those those indicate that all town was being wagoned to me

[Ydrasse]

vt!

town: mastina (with an asterisk to think about if she's still around endgame and we're struggling to find mafia), solstice, ircher, deb barring any role shenanigans

scum: polar bear express, toogeloo, spiffeh, maybe dunnstral

[Double the Trouble]

massclaim ends tomorrow probably while im asleep
don't do anything stupid while im asleep please

[Double the Trouble]

massclaim ends tomorrow probably while im asleep
don't do anything stupid while im asleep please

Ok.

- Norwee

[Polar Bear Express]

massclaim ends tomorrow probably while im asleep
don't do anything stupid while im asleep please

Out of curiosity, why did you want the masons outed? Was it to do the mass claim?

[Polar Bear Express]

vt!

town: mastina (with an asterisk to think about if she's still around endgame and we're struggling to find mafia), solstice, ircher, deb barring any role shenanigans

scum: polar bear express, toogeloo, spiffeh, maybe dunnstral

Why?

[Double the Trouble]

massclaim ends tomorrow probably while im asleep
don't do anything stupid while im asleep please

Out of curiosity, why did you want the masons outed? Was it to do the mass claim?

- Creature always outs today tbh. It was nice to have him as a LHF for awhile but we don't want that anymore. TBH he wanted to out D2 but I didn't see any reason why he should do that just because he was pressured to.
- The Bell flip is really good and overnight we came up a solve that we're confident in. Outing the masonry as well as massclaiming helps with this.
- Even if we're not confident in it, we don't mind trading mason pieces to flip key slots. If we trade 1 for 1 great, if we hit town, that's also great because we can afford a couple of town deaths and the town deaths will ultimately help us get closer to solving. Pooky may be alone but in the late late game, Pooky alone should be enough to bring it home given all of the previous flips. I'm basically trying to set him as well as the whole village up for success.
- Pooky doesn't have that much thread presence where as I do and if I say "Yo, these are the people that need to die" then its more likely that those people will die.

[Double the Trouble]

This isn't Pooky vs Flavour Leaf.
It's Pooky the puppet Teddy Bear being manipulated with strings by Alisae VS Flavour Leaf.

- Norwee

[Double the Trouble]

Honestly now that I think about it, it might have been better to do this while trickling out the masons 1 by 1
Its a shame I didn’t think of that over the night phase since if I did, I would have likely lived for a very long time and that probably means the % of this being checkmate goes up, given I’m get way better the longer the game goes on.
But regardless this helps us set up checkmate by a lot

[Double the Trouble]

im calling it a night.
don't put something in range of being killed before I can check back in assuming massclaim is done by the time I wake up.

[Double the Trouble]

im calling it a night.
don't put something in range of being killed before I can check back in assuming massclaim is done by the time I wake up.

I pinky promise.

- Norwee

[Double the Trouble]

Who wants to die first?

- Norwee

[Double the Trouble]

Who needs enemies when you have allies such as Norwee am i right Alisae?

- Norwee

[Solstice]

claiming supersaint enabler

{Pichu, MURDERCAT, Dunn}
{DEB, Ircher}
{mastina, Polar Bear Express}
{DtT, Ydrasse, Creature}
{Spiffeh, Toog}

this was me and MT's last solve during N2, obviously dtt and creature go to the top

~mist

[Creature]

Who's turn it is now?

[Solstice]

Who's turn it is now?

toog and DEB, both of whom have already claimed

~mist

[Creature]

Shamelessly stealing Elli's post from this Beneath the Mask

Okay so here is what is going to happen today.
I am either posting this myself OR Pooky is posting it for me because Spiffeh + Dunn thought killing me would stop them from losing the game.

And before you ask "Why should you listen to this unwell player"
I am a mason.
MURDERCAT is a mason.
Creature is a mason.

And we are here to tell you that this game is over and that no one is allowed to have any more fun!

1) We will be massclaiming! This is mostly to wrap up the game and any loose ends. If there's something that went wrong in our solve, this is where we check our answers and find out. The order is non-negotiatable!

Here are some rules

FOR THE VIG. DO NOT OUT.

We are okay trading mason pieces to flip very important slots as well as just gain thread control but you're much more valuable if you stay hidden and you shouldn't out unless you have a reason to out yourself.
a) Unvote if you're voting now and don't vote until the damn thing is over.
b) Claim in the designated order. Want to CC someone on something? I don't care, you wait your turn.
c) Claim everything and do it correctly. Don't fuck up.
d) AFTER the massclaim is over, You can either A. Wait and think a little before you vote or B. Let the masons do the thinking for you because unlike half of this town that wants to play mono red, we're mono blue players.

Here is the order
Spiffeh
Dunnstral
Polar Bears
Pichu
mastina
Ircher
Ydrasse
Solstice
Toogeloo
DEB

2) After massclaim, unless something major changes our solve, we will be executing the scumteam 1 by 1.

There is no more fun in this game anymore.
Unless this solve goes horribly wrong, we do not care about your reads.
This game is over.

I'll (or if Ali is dead, Ali will) explain the solve once everything has been done.

[Creature]

Have you claimed, Solstice?

[Creature]

claiming supersaint enabler

Oh