PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Creature]

I think we wait Toog confirm they're VT then have DEB share his result?

[Dr Easy Bake]

Sorry I’ve been gone most of the day cycle, old friend came into town, I’ll be back around 4/5 est to give y’all my dirt, I see y’all have done the thing.

[Ircher]

I think we wait Toog confirm they're VT then have DEB share his result?

Toogeloo already reconfirmed VT (out of order).

[Creature]

Okay then we just wait Derb now

[Polar Bear Express]

massclaim ends tomorrow probably while im asleep
don't do anything stupid while im asleep please

Out of curiosity, why did you want the masons outed? Was it to do the mass claim?

- Creature always outs today tbh. It was nice to have him as a LHF for awhile but we don't want that anymore. TBH he wanted to out D2 but I didn't see any reason why he should do that just because he was pressured to.
- The Bell flip is really good and overnight we came up a solve that we're confident in. Outing the masonry as well as massclaiming helps with this.
- Even if we're not confident in it, we don't mind trading mason pieces to flip key slots. If we trade 1 for 1 great, if we hit town, that's also great because we can afford a couple of town deaths and the town deaths will ultimately help us get closer to solving. Pooky may be alone but in the late late game, Pooky alone should be enough to bring it home given all of the previous flips. I'm basically trying to set him as well as the whole village up for success.
- Pooky doesn't have that much thread presence where as I do and if I say "Yo, these are the people that need to die" then its more likely that those people will die.

Yeah but you just gave scum three free NKs, so I don’t really understand how this is helpful? I could understand you outing Creature since he was getting run up yesterday but why you and especially Murderkitty? How doesn’t that put targets on all of your respective heads?

[Polar Bear Express]

Honestly now that I think about it, it might have been better to do this while trickling out the masons 1 by 1
Its a shame I didn’t think of that over the night phase since if I did, I would have likely lived for a very long time and that probably means the % of this being checkmate goes up, given I’m get way better the longer the game goes on.
But regardless this helps us set up checkmate by a lot

Very probably and if Solstice’s reads are any indication, Murderkitty would probably have only been at any risk for a miselim if we were flipped, so I really hope this doesn’t come back to bite us.

[Ircher]

Tbf, MURDERCAT was a scum read being professed by some players, myself especially. He was at risk too. And at that point, you might as well out all three for coordination purposes, etc.

[Polar Bear Express]

Honestly now that I think about it, it might have been better to do this while trickling out the masons 1 by 1
Its a shame I didn’t think of that over the night phase since if I did, I would have likely lived for a very long time and that probably means the % of this being checkmate goes up, given I’m get way better the longer the game goes on.
But regardless this helps us set up checkmate by a lot

Very probably and if Solstice’s reads are any indication, Murderkitty would probably have only been at any risk for a miselim if we were flipped, so I really hope this doesn’t come back to bite us.

Speaking of, I have never ever heard of Solstice’s role in any game ever, so if true and it seems very unlikely to be a fakeclaim, there obviously has to be an actual supersaint in this game.

[Polar Bear Express]

Tbf, MURDERCAT was a scum read being professed by some players, myself especially. He was at risk too. And at that point, you might as well out all three for coordination purposes, etc.

Only Creature was in immediate danger for miselim though. Why? Why out DT and Murderkitty today?

[Double the Trouble]

Sorry I’ve been gone most of the day cycle, old friend came into town, I’ll be back around 4/5 est to give y’all my dirt, I see y’all have done the thing.

We’re waiting on you

[Double the Trouble]

Tbf, MURDERCAT was a scum read being professed by some players, myself especially. He was at risk too. And at that point, you might as well out all three for coordination purposes, etc.

Only Creature was in immediate danger for miselim though. Why? Why out DT and Murderkitty today?

Who cares? You should be hunting scum now.

- Norwee

[Solstice]

Because myself and Polar Bears seem to be some of your most desired targets and I'm town and Polar Bears is the most obvtown player in the game

Toogeloo, Ydrasse, maybe Dunn?

Are where I'd look next for scum

vt!

town: mastina (with an asterisk to think about if she's still around endgame and we're struggling to find mafia), solstice, ircher, deb barring any role shenanigans

scum: polar bear express,

toogeloo, spiffeh, maybe dunnstral

[I find it funny these two's lists are inverses of each other, even up to both having Dunn as a "maybe". It's probably not important but i still thought it interesting]

[Anyway here's what i was curious about]

Spoiler: Ydrasse on Polarbear

oh no... oh no no no polar bear express no.... what are you doing sweetie......

i'm just going to pretend i don't see these posts... *smiles sweetly*

vt!

town: mastina (with an asterisk to think about if she's still around endgame and we're struggling to find mafia), solstice, ircher, deb barring any role shenanigans

scum: polar bear express, toogeloo, spiffeh, maybe dunnstral

[

@Ydrasse

, what exactly did you find scummy about Polarbears?]

~Morning

[Polar Bear Express]

Tbf, MURDERCAT was a scum read being professed by some players, myself especially. He was at risk too. And at that point, you might as well out all three for coordination purposes, etc.

Only Creature was in immediate danger for miselim though. Why? Why out DT and Murderkitty today?

Who cares? You should be hunting scum now.

- Norwee

What is seriously wrong with you? Why the hell shouldn’t I care about that?

[Double the Trouble]

massclaim ends tomorrow probably while im asleep
don't do anything stupid while im asleep please

Out of curiosity, why did you want the masons outed? Was it to do the mass claim?

- Creature always outs today tbh. It was nice to have him as a LHF for awhile but we don't want that anymore. TBH he wanted to out D2 but I didn't see any reason why he should do that just because he was pressured to.
- The Bell flip is really good and overnight we came up a solve that we're confident in. Outing the masonry as well as massclaiming helps with this.
- Even if we're not confident in it, we don't mind trading mason pieces to flip key slots. If we trade 1 for 1 great, if we hit town, that's also great because we can afford a couple of town deaths and the town deaths will ultimately help us get closer to solving. Pooky may be alone but in the late late game, Pooky alone should be enough to bring it home given all of the previous flips. I'm basically trying to set him as well as the whole village up for success.
- Pooky doesn't have that much thread presence where as I do and if I say "Yo, these are the people that need to die" then its more likely that those people will die.

Yeah but you just gave scum three free NKs, so I don’t really understand how this is helpful? I could understand you outing Creature since he was getting run up yesterday but why you and especially Murderkitty? How doesn’t that put targets on all of your respective heads?

yes
That is what trading is.

[Double the Trouble]

massclaim ends tomorrow probably while im asleep
don't do anything stupid while im asleep please

Out of curiosity, why did you want the masons outed? Was it to do the mass claim?

- Creature always outs today tbh. It was nice to have him as a LHF for awhile but we don't want that anymore. TBH he wanted to out D2 but I didn't see any reason why he should do that just because he was pressured to.
- The Bell flip is really good and overnight we came up a solve that we're confident in. Outing the masonry as well as massclaiming helps with this.
- Even if we're not confident in it, we don't mind trading mason pieces to flip key slots. If we trade 1 for 1 great, if we hit town, that's also great because we can afford a couple of town deaths and the town deaths will ultimately help us get closer to solving. Pooky may be alone but in the late late game, Pooky alone should be enough to bring it home given all of the previous flips. I'm basically trying to set him as well as the whole village up for success.
- Pooky doesn't have that much thread presence where as I do and if I say "Yo, these are the people that need to die" then its more likely that those people will die.

Yeah but you just gave scum three free NKs, so I don’t really understand how this is helpful? I could understand you outing Creature since he was getting run up yesterday but why you and especially Murderkitty? How doesn’t that put targets on all of your respective heads?

yes
That is what trading is.

[Double the Trouble]

Gloria have u played chess?

[Solstice]

What is seriously wrong with you? Why the hell shouldn’t I care about that?

[...cause what's done has already been done? It's a waste of time to call it a bad decision and debate about it right now. Ali even said e thought it would have been better to trickle claims but e didn't think of that]

~Morning

[Polar Bear Express]

Because myself and Polar Bears seem to be some of your most desired targets and I'm town and Polar Bears is the most obvtown player in the game

Toogeloo, Ydrasse, maybe Dunn?

Are where I'd look next for scum

vt!

town: mastina (with an asterisk to think about if she's still around endgame and we're struggling to find mafia), solstice, ircher, deb barring any role shenanigans

scum: polar bear express,

toogeloo, spiffeh, maybe dunnstral

[I find it funny these two's lists are inverses of each other, even up to both having Dunn as a "maybe". It's probably not important but i still thought it interesting]

[Anyway here's what i was curious about]

Spoiler: Ydrasse on Polarbear

oh no... oh no no no polar bear express no.... what are you doing sweetie......

i'm just going to pretend i don't see these posts... *smiles sweetly*

vt!

town: mastina (with an asterisk to think about if she's still around endgame and we're struggling to find mafia), solstice, ircher, deb barring any role shenanigans

scum: polar bear express, toogeloo, spiffeh, maybe dunnstral

[

@Ydrasse

, what exactly did you find scummy about Polarbears?]

~Morning

Yeah, that read change seemed rather sudden. It really doesn’t make any sense to me.

[Solstice]

mastina, i'll give you ONE MORE CHANCE to push on someone... if it flips town we will be having a stern talk...........

i was willing to accept this as creature's town play earlier bc it was my only experience with him but like. yeah.

VOTE: creature

my engagement with this game has been shoddy and mostly based around league (i got plat 1 in tft today so like, diamond soon) but this feels right

(Ydrasse switches to death tunneling Bell after Pichu drops the case)

-

(Spiffeh sticks to his guns on Creature even through all of the Bell business)

If Creature's town I will reevaluate

I think Creature has a phenomenal shot at flipping scum

If you disagree than you can explain why, but I'm not going to let go of one of the few scum reads I feel decently about on the off chance that they could be a mason (which I doubt btw)

[Spiffeh actually comes out looking better than Ydrasse with the revelation of Creature being a mason IMO. Ydrasse's positioning on Creature/mastina in 2891 is actually sort of concerning since she's placing the burden of the read on mastina and none on herself since she includes originally thinking Creature is town]

[Ydrasse resigning herself to just hard bus her buddy all day is kind of surprising (see her pointing that out herself) but i can't imagine it would have been terribly difficult. Ydrasse doesn't have to do anything other than defer to pichu all day and play under the guise of "Holding town hostage to kill this person get him get him get him"]

[Ydrasse never really commented or did any analysis on pichu's case that i know of, and yet she was pretty confident in it at most times.. I considered scum!TMI and decided against it earlier, but now I am less sure.]

does ircher actually think im scum if he doesnt have me in his reads list ..............

[Same deal as the "Oh no Polarbear ........" posts -- sort of feels like you're trying to incite suspicion on people without really committing much]

[side note, if Ydrasse is scum, that officially means she is fantastic at pocketing Hectic]

~Morning

[Polar Bear Express]

massclaim ends tomorrow probably while im asleep
don't do anything stupid while im asleep please

Out of curiosity, why did you want the masons outed? Was it to do the mass claim?

- Creature always outs today tbh. It was nice to have him as a LHF for awhile but we don't want that anymore. TBH he wanted to out D2 but I didn't see any reason why he should do that just because he was pressured to.
- The Bell flip is really good and overnight we came up a solve that we're confident in. Outing the masonry as well as massclaiming helps with this.
- Even if we're not confident in it, we don't mind trading mason pieces to flip key slots. If we trade 1 for 1 great, if we hit town, that's also great because we can afford a couple of town deaths and the town deaths will ultimately help us get closer to solving. Pooky may be alone but in the late late game, Pooky alone should be enough to bring it home given all of the previous flips. I'm basically trying to set him as well as the whole village up for success.
- Pooky doesn't have that much thread presence where as I do and if I say "Yo, these are the people that need to die" then its more likely that those people will die.

Yeah but you just gave scum three free NKs, so I don’t really understand how this is helpful? I could understand you outing Creature since he was getting run up yesterday but why you and especially Murderkitty? How doesn’t that put targets on all of your respective heads?

yes
That is what trading is.

Obvious problem with that argument, is being IC, doesn’t make your reads correct, it just makes you not miselimable.

So, I think this was a really silly idea, except of course for Creature. I was recently in a game. I can link it if you like? I was also IC and I was deathtunelled on town!RR and as a result got pocketed by both scum and we lost because everyone wrongly sheeped me. And the absolute worst part of that is I got yelled at post game. :/

[Polar Bear Express]

Gloria have u played chess?

Yes, why do you ask?

[Double the Trouble]

massclaim ends tomorrow probably while im asleep
don't do anything stupid while im asleep please

Out of curiosity, why did you want the masons outed? Was it to do the mass claim?

- Creature always outs today tbh. It was nice to have him as a LHF for awhile but we don't want that anymore. TBH he wanted to out D2 but I didn't see any reason why he should do that just because he was pressured to.
- The Bell flip is really good and overnight we came up a solve that we're confident in. Outing the masonry as well as massclaiming helps with this.
- Even if we're not confident in it, we don't mind trading mason pieces to flip key slots. If we trade 1 for 1 great, if we hit town, that's also great because we can afford a couple of town deaths and the town deaths will ultimately help us get closer to solving. Pooky may be alone but in the late late game, Pooky alone should be enough to bring it home given all of the previous flips. I'm basically trying to set him as well as the whole village up for success.
- Pooky doesn't have that much thread presence where as I do and if I say "Yo, these are the people that need to die" then its more likely that those people will die.

Yeah but you just gave scum three free NKs, so I don’t really understand how this is helpful? I could understand you outing Creature since he was getting run up yesterday but why you and especially Murderkitty? How doesn’t that put targets on all of your respective heads?

yes
That is what trading is.

Obvious problem with that argument, is being IC, doesn’t make your reads correct, it just makes you not miselimable.

So, I think this was a really silly idea, except of course for Creature. I was recently in a game. I can link it if you like? I was also IC and I was deathtunelled on town!RR and as a result got pocketed by both scum and we lost because everyone wrongly sheeped me. And the absolute worst part of that is I got yelled at post game. :/

Its not about being correct
Part of setting up checkmate is miseliminating some people to try to figure out what scum were doing during the course of the game.

[Creature]

Kinda annoyed we still have to wait DEB

[Polar Bear Express]

What is seriously wrong with you? Why the hell shouldn’t I care about that?

[...cause what's done has already been done? It's a waste of time to call it a bad decision and debate about it right now. Ali even said e thought it would have been better to trickle claims but e didn't think of that]

~Morning

+1

Exactly. I don’t think scum would have had a prayer that way.

[Polar Bear Express]

mastina, i'll give you ONE MORE CHANCE to push on someone... if it flips town we will be having a stern talk...........

i was willing to accept this as creature's town play earlier bc it was my only experience with him but like. yeah.

VOTE: creature

my engagement with this game has been shoddy and mostly based around league (i got plat 1 in tft today so like, diamond soon) but this feels right

(Ydrasse switches to death tunneling Bell after Pichu drops the case)

-

(Spiffeh sticks to his guns on Creature even through all of the Bell business)

If Creature's town I will reevaluate

I think Creature has a phenomenal shot at flipping scum

If you disagree than you can explain why, but I'm not going to let go of one of the few scum reads I feel decently about on the off chance that they could be a mason (which I doubt btw)

[Spiffeh actually comes out looking better than Ydrasse with the revelation of Creature being a mason IMO. Ydrasse's positioning on Creature/mastina in 2891 is actually sort of concerning since she's placing the burden of the read on mastina and none on herself since she includes originally thinking Creature is town]

[Ydrasse resigning herself to just hard bus her buddy all day is kind of surprising (see her pointing that out herself) but i can't imagine it would have been terribly difficult. Ydrasse doesn't have to do anything other than defer to pichu all day and play under the guise of "Holding town hostage to kill this person get him get him get him"]

[Ydrasse never really commented or did any analysis on pichu's case that i know of, and yet she was pretty confident in it at most times.. I considered scum!TMI and decided against it earlier, but now I am less sure.]

does ircher actually think im scum if he doesnt have me in his reads list ..............

[Same deal as the "Oh no Polarbear ........" posts -- sort of feels like you're trying to incite suspicion on people without really committing much]

[side note, if Ydrasse is scum, that officially means she is fantastic at pocketing Hectic]

~Morning

I hadn’t actually considered the possibility that she could have possibly been pocketing Hectic with that. I just really hard tr that AtE. I haven’t seen Ydrasse fake AtE as scum as scum before, so I honestly wouldn’t know. She just seemed so upset but it’s possible it could have been faked.

@Pooky what do you think? Is this in Ydrasse’s scumrange or not?