Newbie 2045: A Midwinter Night's Dream - End!

[safebet222]

Spoiler:

Not to single the newbies out, but it's very interesting in the way you guys have been having discourse right now. A lot of wordy analysis but I also remain a bit unsettled about it. Mr. Turtle's #385 highlights this opinion, where I feel like a majority of the content is made with uncertainty. A lot of "I don't know" or "It could be this way" or

even posing two possible scenarios and highlighting them both in your posts.

I know this is likely coming from inexperience but you don't have to tell everyone what you're thinking, especially if you don't know.

If you don't know something: Ask. Ask your other players if you can't understand their intentions. Or..make a statement that asserts a position.

You don't always need to be shamefully honest and say things like "Well I don't know" and "Mostly gut". I would attribute that behavior as a waffling scum who is just exaggerating a townie mindset.

This is kind of ironic coming from you, man. I don't disagree with it, but you've got on my case for not considering the possibilities of scum!BB in my posts.

I wanted more out of you, so I maintained my original position to see how you (and others) would react

That's a convenient answer but fine... I can play nice for now.

[BBmolla]

I'm just off in left field. Is no one else really just pinging scum with quiet. Like my Spidey sense is vibrating so fast, it's euphoric. Everything about him is off

not for me, but I also didn't think all his stuff was filler

safebet is probably town tho

[Mikul]

[petapan]

I'm just off in left field. Is no one else really just pinging scum with quiet. Like my Spidey sense is vibrating so fast, it's euphoric. Everything about him is off

no he's definitely moved down in my estimation, i just want to keep the pressure on lunar right now

[Mikul]

Times I wish I had a day vig.

[quiet]

why's your townread so strong?

1. Illwei is going about the game in a way that reads new to this form, not too tryhard, but genuinely looking for information and scumhunting. Examples that support this for me:

I don't like this line of reasoning, it seems worse than an Info kill to me. It's voting someone out because you think you won't be able to read them later?? and you're kinda preflipping Turtle there as Village.

TLDR;
1) I Think BB's playstyle is not AI, as it is his playstyle it seems.
2) It feels like Unwnd is trying to use his playstyle as an easy kill
3) I have more thoughts but am keeping them to myself, as I want to see how things play out a bit first.

To summarize 1, Illwei is consistently offering quality and specific information when posting, and I read that towny.

2. I know this is probably bad, but the tone of said information/their posts. I had this conversation with someone else earlier; I have a hard time seeing scum Illwei saying any of the following:

of course this kinda, doesn't apply as much to more experienced players, but hey! it's a newbie game, right? *sweats*

Sweating as a joke as mafia, I just don't see.

This is definitely not me meaning to answer for him, so I hope it's not taken that way: but after looking at Lunar's responses, they seem like something that would make me want to leave my vote on Lunar if I was BBmola. so that's something that slightly confuses me.

I also think that a single vote doesn't do much in terms of pressure. Lunar stayed strangely calm during that, even putting what could have been a self-defense vote disguised with fake meaning on BBmola. The whole situation feels awkwardly like some sort of Distancing to me.

I would say that the whole thing feels...off. somehow. filing that away in "think about later" as there's too many directions this could go and I don't want to waste anyone's time talking about all of them and...how equally unlikely they all are...

This is a good example of Illwei's posting where they demonstrate both attentive reads and also, that tone? uncertainty? I'm struggling to describe it exactly, but I just get towny pings from both the logic + the way it is presented.

And this one is probably the worst read of them all, but:

Oh, yeah I did. and...I said Quiet? was more suspicious? huh. I don't know how... Well, maybe before I was looking at everything quiet was saying as if they had already flipped scum? ...huh. Well, that's, the above bit, my answer to...uh...let me find...it..

I read this as someone trying to remember exactly what they said. For whatever reason, I imagine scum Illwei wouldn't be willing to wing it like that. I don't think their uncertainty here is faked. I don't think scum Illwei would be alright posting something they were that uncertain in, given the chance of a slip.

3. These interactions:

Tbf, I was pretty tempted to vote on BBmola to put him at E-1, just...to see what would happen .

It's so tempting
to put him (Lunar) at E-1

Those interactions are also why I intend to hammer Lunar if Illwei doesn't unvote. I'm calling Illwei on their intent a bit.
@Illwei You placed your lunar vote first and have not changed your mind. I would like:
An updated reason why you think we should still elim Lunar today
Who you think likely partners are for scum Lunar

If you want to unvote then revote later when you've had time to make your decision, that's fine. I'll be voting in about 2 days, or if you commit to staying on Lunar, unless Lunar or someone else steps in with a good reason not to do so.

[Mikul]

I have a bad feeling about this lunar wagon. Way to many people willing to hop in so fast and scum would not have a reason to bus with so much time left. I really think my gut was seeing just by how fast that pressure piled up. I think he's at l-1

[quiet]

Times I wish I had a day vig.

In a world where you shoot me and I flip red, who is my partner?

In a world where you shoot me and I flip green, what does it say about you/others in the game? I still think your town, probably just as much as Illwei, who I said was my strongest, but I can't exactly follow your reads because then I'd be voting myself.

Do you read anyone else as maf?

[Mikul]

My brain would instantly go to a ringer as scum partner. Because to me you are leaking scummy vibes and no one is even looking hard at it and chalking it up to being new.

If you flip town. I would go back and poe down the dayphases. I'm really starting to worry about the lunar wagon. So my eye is starting to look around the ringers again for not even questioning how fast it's happening.


Either way I think one of the ringers is scum. Partially because of how passively this game has developed and them taking a laid back stance and just letting the game go all over the place.

[quiet]

Either way I think one of the ringers is scum.

I'm having a hard time reading ringers. Is there anything I can do to read them day1?

[Mikul]

Not particularly. DP1 is hard regardless. I've briefly saw unwinds thought process in one of his opening posts. I've seen what he is capable of and he is intentionally not trying and letting the game go on around him. Peta also seems very week put together and I like his read on uwnd as pure reactionary
Town is typically more reaction oriented that scum imo. Mollas claim really bothers me and I will perma vote him if he's not a pr. I'd have to see how this plays out and to what end him a scum bb would want a 1v1

G2MH it's probably you and uwnd.

[Mikul]

Very well *

[quiet]

G2MH it's probably you and uwnd.

does this mean you are relatively certain it's both of us? Or like, that if you were forced to give an answer, it would be us two.

From the wiki,
"GTH: Gun To Head. Usually prefaces a statement containing absolute certainty by the speaker. Can also be a helpful or threatening question to prompt a response containing certainty"

I wouldn't think you would be that certain on unwnd. I understand me, but not both.

[Mikul]

Meaning if I was forced to pick. That would be my two choices. You asked who I thought it was. On a forced pick , that's what I would lean towards atm

[safebet222]

So mikul, you're saying that their opening salvo was scum theater? IDK about that.

[quiet]

So mikul, you're saying that their opening salvo was scum theater? IDK about that.'re saying that their opening salvo was scum theater? IDK about that.

This is a really good point. With the number of questions I ask, and the amount I post...
You don't think I would have been blowing unwnd or any other ringer up with a million questions about exactly how I should introduce myself, things to think about, ways to post, etc? I think me + a ringer partner on a first game plays pretty different than I have been. I def. don't think unwnd would be excited with me opening the way I did.

[Mr Turtle]

Not to single the newbies out, but it's very interesting in the way you guys have been having discourse right now. A lot of wordy analysis but I also remain a bit unsettled about it. Mr. Turtle's #385 highlights this opinion, where I feel like a majority of the content is made with uncertainty. A lot of "I don't know" or "It could be this way" or even posing two possible scenarios and highlighting them both in your posts. I know this is likely coming from inexperience but you don't have to tell everyone what you're thinking, especially if you don't know.

If you don't know something: Ask. Ask your other players if you can't understand their intentions. Or..make a statement that asserts a position.

You don't always need to be shamefully honest and say things like "Well I don't know" and "Mostly gut". I would attribute that behavior as a waffling scum who is just exaggerating a townie mindset.

That's funny, because I was really trying to tone down how unsure I was. It seems like it didn't work, though.

I'm willing to give leeway on this however because I believe most of you are trying and I'm not ready to believe (You) Mr. Turtle is just waffling as scum and trying to exaggerate a townie mindset. Mr. Turtle, are you worried about being wrong? What's keeping you from making commitment? Don't worry about being wrong, you won't be judged and I think it's a skill to not be afraid to be wrong. If we all played in such a guarded way where we had to back up our thought processes with another scenario in our head just to double-check, it'd be really hard to determine what people mean. Any speculation you feel can likely be solved through interaction and again, asking questions. Do you suspect Mikul? Why? Try to summarize it for me and don't worry about it being gut or anything like that. It's perfectly fine to just have a feeilng, I certainly just have one with Lunar and am just leading with it.

Yeah, I'm worried about being wrong. That's also what'd be keeping me from making commitment.
I don't really suspect Mikul, I just felt pushed to explain myself in post #309. My fear of being wrong was immediately re-inforced when Quiet jumped at me, pointing out the flaws in my logic (see #385).

[quiet]

My fear of being wrong was immediately re-inforced when Quiet jumped at me, pointing out the flaws in my logic (see #385).

Damn, I'm sorry. I'm having a ton of fun, and I don't think anyone expects anyone to be right day1. Didn't intend to make it feel like I was jumping at you, it just sucked to get sussed by you right away. Mikul's been doing it all day1, so it's not like you were confirmed wrong or anything. There's clearly reasons to be sus of me if Mikul is, and I've pinged bad for other people too.

[Mikul]

So mikul, you're saying that their opening salvo was scum theater? IDK about that.

I've mod killed myself then janitored my flip to convince people I'm town to put my scum partners ahead. I could literally see two people flaming at each other and still think they are both scum.

[safebet222]

I'd be lying if I told you I understood the first part of what you said...lol

[Mikul]

It's very easy to fake emotion or interactions is the short of it.

[BBmolla]

yeah I don't get the fuss about quiet tbh

@Lunar: intent to hammer

please claim

[petapan]

3. These interactions:

Tbf, I was pretty tempted to vote on BBmola to put him at E-1, just...to see what would happen .

It's so tempting
to put him (Lunar) at E-1

Those interactions are also why I intend to hammer Lunar if Illwei doesn't unvote. I'm calling Illwei on their intent a bit.
@Illwei You placed your lunar vote first and have not changed your mind. I would like:
An updated reason why you think we should still elim Lunar today
Who you think likely partners are for scum Lunar

If you want to unvote then revote later when you've had time to make your decision, that's fine. I'll be voting in about 2 days, or if you commit to staying on Lunar, unless Lunar or someone else steps in with a good reason not to do so.

the way you speak about those interactions make me like you a little bit more, but him less

[petapan]

hemming and hawwing around every potential wagon and making a show of potentially voting them is kind of scummy imo

[Mikul]

Jumping on wagons easily is equally as scummy imo