PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Polar Bear Express]

Solstice’s post makes sense because she did a 180 on us for pretty much no reason.

[I am interested in Ydrasse's read on you, yes, although that is not exactly why]

And I still want an answer on that AtE question and I don’t gaf if it’s pissing you off. Why would you tr Ydrasse based on AtE and not me?

[Ydrasse has not employed AtE in this game]

~Morning

Isn’t that what you posted earlier?

[Polar Bear Express]

[Anyway here's what i was curious about]

Spoiler: Ydrasse on Polarbear

oh no... oh no no no polar bear express no.... what are you doing sweetie......

i'm just going to pretend i don't see these posts... *smiles sweetly*

vt!

town: mastina (with an asterisk to think about if she's still around endgame and we're struggling to find mafia), solstice, ircher, deb barring any role shenanigans

scum: polar bear express, toogeloo, spiffeh, maybe dunnstral

[

@Ydrasse

, what exactly did you find scummy about Polarbears?]

~Morning

[bump bump bump]

~Morning

Oh and not letting Ydrasse get away with not answering this.

[Polar Bear Express]

you silly geese should sheep pichu’s read on me, trust

the hypocrisy isn't lost.

you tell people to sheep pichu on u yet you don't sheep pichu's TR on me

-nornor

For Dunn v DEB, idk where I stand.

it’s not my fault your role pm is red and mine is green

Super townie post right here.

[Solstice]

Solstice’s post makes sense because she did a 180 on us for pretty much no reason.

[I am interested in Ydrasse's read on you, yes, although that is not exactly why]

And I still want an answer on that AtE question and I don’t gaf if it’s pissing you off. Why would you tr Ydrasse based on AtE and not me?

[Ydrasse has not employed AtE in this game]

~Morning

Isn’t that what you posted earlier?

[No.]

[Anyway here's what i was curious about]

Spoiler: Ydrasse on Polarbear

oh no... oh no no no polar bear express no.... what are you doing sweetie......

i'm just going to pretend i don't see these posts... *smiles sweetly*

vt!

town: mastina (with an asterisk to think about if she's still around endgame and we're struggling to find mafia), solstice, ircher, deb barring any role shenanigans

scum: polar bear express, toogeloo, spiffeh, maybe dunnstral

[

@Ydrasse

, what exactly did you find scummy about Polarbears?]

~Morning

[I don't really know what Ydrasses' prior on you read was, if i recall correctly i skimmed her ISO and found mostly nothing on reads since she's just been doing the thing with pichu. What i was curious about was what pinged Ydrasse in 4525/4526, as well as if there were some other reasoning for putting Polarbears in scum, as I figured there is prolly something else.]

[I don't find that suspecting you is suspicious in of itself, as there are several town players in this game who have and/or are currently suspecting you. what i am curious about is if Ydrasse's read on you is genuine or not, and i cannot tell just by reading her readslist. I thought the way she sort of shaded you/Ircher without saying much else is kinda weak, but not conclusive at all.]

[Now, as for why I'm asking about your slot specifically -- I feel that your slot is an important one for scum to get rid of in order to win this game. Dunn/Toog/Spiffeh I believe were already on lock coming into today for the most part. Yours, not so much, you're very controversial]

[you could kinda say that a 180 is something scum has to do, yes. But like. I can't even find where Ydrasse gave a townread on you. So i'm guessing that was some early game stuff that doesn't matter much to me anymore]

~Morning

[mastina]

anyone who has me in their solve is boring and should take me out.

Gonna say this is true, but also:

Mod: possible V/LA due to potential power outage.

So far not out but power could go out any second.

[Solstice]

[I read through Forest Fire Ydrasse again, and she is less fluffy than I remember there. She did keep up the illusion of trying to solve pretty much the whole way through, even if she wasn't really most of the time -- she spent a lot of time promising she would]

[i will definitely concede if she's scum here, then she's improved. Reason i was looking into Ydrasse so much is because Toog/Spiffeh kept making me second guess. Spiffeh still does, really. i should expand on that a bit sometime. i came into today expecting Spiffeh to be my #1 pick but i talked myself out of it. Should look at that again, but basically the part where he thinks Bell is a tracker, as well as his read on Creature, as well as i guess tone made me put him above the others]

[Toog, less so.. still kinda samey there. the hyper focus on Noraabear vaguely reminds me of Gamma Emerald in warlock/werewolf/vampire just focusing on tunneling one player and putting a lot of effort just there. Obviously the case itself is not terribly good but i have mixed feelings on whether or not they believe it]

[If it's Dunn + Toog + ?, I am really running out of ideas for the last scum.]

[I'm pretty good on Polarbears/Mastina being town]

[Ircher I could like maybe create a deepwolf theory for, cause he retained Murdercat at the bottom of his reads for reasoning which i never really got, plus of course Creature, so he was set to not bus his buddies beyond Bell. Idk though cause I like Ircher. Tbh I think mastina did the same thing with MC but I could buy Ircher!scum more i think since she actively drove miselims (BM + Creature kind of) whereas Ircher was more concurring iirc. Oh yeah and Toog is scum in this scenario so that's good for Mastina. whereas with Ircher, he had Toog as his third pick and the only scum in his bottom 5.]

[I think having Dr Easy guilty Dunn today is game-losing for scum and i don't really see why it wouldn't be]

[Ydrasse went over..]

[And then yeah just Spiffeh and that's it. And it very well could be Spiffeh but it doesn't feel so good anymore]

~Morning

[Toogeloo]

All I can say is with all y'all having the PoE down so far you're struggling to put 3 names in it, y'all are gonna have a wake up call down the line. Way too trusting is all I'm saying.

[Dunnstral]

[I think having Dr Easy guilty Dunn today is game-losing for scum and i don't really see why it wouldn't be]

Not game-losing. Probably a bad trade, objectively. They could have theorized that I was vig, since there was no shot last night.

[Double the Trouble]

is it time to end the game?

[Double the Trouble]

nah mastina needs to catch up at least me thinks

[Double the Trouble]

unless idc about that

[Toogeloo]

Mastina's reads in general are why I think she's possibly scum, and I'd replace Ydrasse with her in my solve if I'm wrong about anyone.

[Ircher]

Mastina's reads in general are why I think she's possibly scum, and I'd replace Ydrasse with her in my solve if I'm wrong about anyone.

like idunno man toog just feels townie to me :/

I don't get this impression at all. What makes you think Toogeloo is town here?

She hasn't done anything but fluff post

sounds like town!ydrasse to me tbh

Dunnstral brings up a good point here. And contrary to what your meta read suggests, I don't think that could ever be interpreted as a towntell. NAI, sure, but not town.

@Players who think Ydrasse is scum for fluffing

- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85282 here's your evidence that helps prove Ydra is town for fluffing. Hell tbh, in her scum games I find that she fluffs way less.

A fluff ratio comparison is valid in terms of giving a town meta read. (Also, that's different from the assertion that Toogeloo is town because they are fluffing.) I will note that one game is anecdote, not a proof.

I'm out of time, so I'll try to do more later. Noraa has been my #1 scum pick for a while, and I am going to attempt to paint the picture as to why.

I think you’re either scum or you’re town ignoring my posts, who apparently hasn’t learned a damn thing from almost miscrolling me in Death Curse but that’s not why I think you’re scum though, It’s both your post on Creature, plus you jumping off Bell to vote both Creature and Mastina.

Speaking of Bell, can you explain what your slot saw in the VCs y'all quoted earlier this day phase? I took a glance, but I didn't see much.

Also guys if mafia does have a supersaint, we should be playing around a hated supersaint.
just letting ywall know that, at least I am going to play around that.

A hated Supersaint. Really? I think you need to let up a little on the conspiracy theories.

So, how isn’t it a full inno then or am I misunderstanding this?

I could've performed the N2 kill. Alternatively, one of my buddies could have performed the kill N1. This is ofc speaking as if I am scum (which I am not).

More likely is either DEB town with a genuine guilty or DEB scum faking a guilty on a scumbuddy. Either way, Dunnstral's a pretty sure bet at being scum.

Yeah guiltying your scumbuddy after counterclaiming your scumbuddy the previous day would be a 200 IQ move on Flavor Leaf's part. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, but at the same time, I think it's likely it's just scum!Dunnstral and town!Dr Easy Bake.

I’ve got to ask why so many people in this game don’t seem to have any opinion on my posts? Maybe DT but I almost feel like I’m not even in the game at times because so many people keep referring to our slot as “Noraa”.

Idk. I think half of it is you don't sign, and at first, you weren't posting at all. So people naturally associate the slot as Noraa. Aside from that, I don't think top many of your posts have been alignment indicative. The hydra voting dissonance D2 is the only thing that caught my attention from your head.

[If Dr Easy is scum guiltying his teammate, isn't that just completely game-losing?]

Not necessarily. There's still three of them left. Remember, Flavor Leaf likes to make the big plays with high risk and high reward, so it's not out of the question. I don't think it's particularly likely.

i shouldve been drafted as scum tbh

Your inexplicable progression on our slot makes me doubt you weren’t.

Meh, I think scum!Ydrasse would be a bit more inclined to engage you here rather than purposely provoking you.

this game would be better if the town didnt know which stump was town and which stump was scum

I think it's better this way. I'd just ignore both stumps in that case.

Hectic put her at locktown and I trust him

I mean, this is a good reason to townread Ydrasse here in the absence of anything stronger, but please keep in mind that people are not infallible.

[Ydrasse has not employed AtE in this game]

That's not strictly true. The pichu death reaction could be considered AtE to an extent.

All I can say is with all y'all having the PoE down so far you're struggling to put 3 names in it, y'all are gonna have a wake up call down the line. Way too trusting is all I'm saying.

We will deal with it when it comes to it. No point in dwelling on it right now.

Mastina's reads in general are why I think she's possibly scum, and I'd replace Ydrasse with her in my solve if I'm wrong about anyone.

I kinda think it's typical for town!mastina's reads to be really eh. I don't see this as strong evidence for scum!mastina.

At bottom of 5211.

[Ircher]

You can ignore the first quote.

[Double the Trouble]

A fluff ratio comparison is valid in terms of giving a town meta read. (Also, that's different from the assertion that Toogeloo is town because they are fluffing.) I will note that one game is anecdote, not a proof.

and in the meta she posted on D1 her fluff ratio as town was way higher compared to her scum fluff ratio

[Double the Trouble]

A hated Supersaint. Really? I think you need to let up a little on the conspiracy theories.

bro im a natural when it comes to tin foil hats ok bro

[Polar Bear Express]

If the reason to TR ydra is that she's out of her emotion/posting scum range, I don't buy it.

Everyone's been dropped to null as reassessment is required considering the three masons were my exact solve at the end of yesterday.

I nearly won Death curse for that exact reason(out of scum range thing)
I think the only plus' in ydras favor are 1) pichu's read on her. I trust pichu to hell and back and 2) not too much AtE and pocketing

-nornor

[mastina]

Tbh i do believe Dunn has been slightly scummier than you up to now. But even i find these circumstances a bit questionable.
- Norwee

I mean, at this point, we're living in one of two worlds:
Either two scum have sacced themselves for a chance to eliminate one town power role during the day...
...Or two scum have sacced themselves in an attempt to prop up a third scum.
(Or I suppose one scum sacced themselves for a chance to prop up a second who immediately sacced themselves for a chance to eliminate a player who was going to be eliminated anyway, but I find that the least likely of the scenarios.)

[Solstice]

[I think having Dr Easy guilty Dunn today is game-losing for scum and i don't really see why it wouldn't be]

Not game-losing. Probably a bad trade, objectively. They could have theorized that I was vig, since there was no shot last night.

[Game-losing if you're SvS with Easy, i mean.]

~Morning

[mastina]

(I am very sorry I'm not caught up yet, but I need to delay it further--I have an obligation to attend to.)

[Double the Trouble]

This is for the toogeloo haters cuz I need to stand up for my boi the panda

i townread this player because
- I don't see why this player gets drafted like ever. Why would you want to draft this player? What teammates does he support? Like, Bell is reasonably a 4th pick in the draft, maybe 3rd. Dunnstral was likely a 3rd pick or a 2nd pick and I 2nd picked Dunnstral/MariaR once and it died D1 cuz they wanted to play DnD and Krazy wanted them dead. So likely 3rd pick Dunn. I say 4th pick Bell because I don't really think this player is one of Titus' bans on rounds 1 and 2. Like, this player was either drafted like 1st or 2nd and like I don't really buy any of that tbh.
- noraa interactions from their side on D1 are more likely to come from town
- his response to Pooky introducing a PoE was more likely to come from town
- how they moved from Ircher to Battle Mage more than likely comes from town > scum
- 1485 is actually really interesting positioning considering creature was kinda lhf at the time but no one really talked about it. If he was scum, I doubt he comes out with this read on the player. You could argue that his progression on creature is like weird but like idunno
- 2622 to 2654 feels townie but it can come from scum
- 3610 is some conspiracy shit that doesn't come from scum lol
- not knowing how mechanics works is a towntell and this is shown in the fact he doesn't know anything about the fact that FL can suggest 2 "rules"
- 3926 is more likely to come from town than scum tbh
- why does scum go out of their way to fake all not knowing how not known died?
- his response to me and ircher not caring about his noraa case probably just comes from town tbh. I'm a sucker for this kind of mentality in general because I don't believe scum show that.
- who is this player's teammates? Like, where are they bro?

[Dunnstral]

I don't see why this player gets drafted like ever.

Bad argument

- his response to Pooky introducing a PoE was more likely to come from town

Even if the poe is all town?

not knowing how mechanics works is a towntell and this is shown in the fact he doesn't know anything about the fact that FL can suggest 2 "rules"

Can be faked easily

- who is this player's teammates? Like, where are they bro?

It's DEB and he faked a guilty and has 0 interaction with anyone else
And Bell who is dead

That leaves 1 other person who can be his teammate

Bad argument

[Dunnstral]

- why does scum go out of their way to fake all not knowing how not known died?

To look like town

[Double the Trouble]

The reason why I'm so hooked on this {Spiffeh, Dunn, Polar Bears} solve is like
the slots just refuse to scumread each other and it seems like they're just supporting each other like how teammates would like.
It's like they all have the same magenetic force and they just gravitate away from each other its so weird.

Polar Bears would rather accuse Ydrasse of "weird progression" that she would reasonably have as either alignment than even consider batting an eye towards Spiffeh
Spiffeh could be town in the solve tbh. I think its unlikely but there's a chance given his posting today is somewhat better. But that slot wouldn't go near dunnstral and isn't gonna go near polar bears.
Dunnstral hasn't gone near those slots.


Like okay, maybe Toogeloo is one of those players where if he's not super obvtown to the whole playerlist he's scum but the thing is like
he's in all of these 3 player's scumpools along with Ydra.

How is that not a red flag to me.

Honestly if any of those players (Spiffeh, Polar Bears) are a vig they should claim but I don't think any of them are.
Spiffeh definitely isn't and I feel like if I was Polar Bears and I was a vig, I would out if the masons are wrongly suspecting me. Maybe they don't need to tho so I wouldn't know.

But like, see what my problem is its like
I hard townread Ircher Ydra
Solstice and mastina are paranoia things but are likely just town
DEB I don't care about right now and I don't think it should be cared about ever cuz if its teh last scum he cannot win it is impossible for him to.
And I'm the only person hard defending Toogeloo and this read gets flipped immediately if things go wrong.

[Double the Trouble]

thanks dunnstral!