TENET - Game Over

[Spiffeh]

FB I really think Deacon is town and shading them for AtE is not really helpful at this stage

[Hench Princesses]

No, I agree that the claim seems unlikely with an IC day one.

Also I really doubt every major wagon yesterday was on town (myself, gamma, Noraa, skitter, flavor)

This isn't shade, I just think this would be a funnier post if you were the only scum name in this list. Don't @me


also in terms of mech imperium's role was not balanced around a presumed d1 reveal I think, so I don't see why any claim is unlikely with their role

[Dunnstral]

@LLD

{skitter, pooky, gamma, midway bear}

w/o getting into other thread

Let's start w/ these:

I think pooky is scum for reasons that i went into earlier today; I still pretty much think that.

I went into today thinking skitter was scum - I don't like just her role even existing and I am townreading people that might be foils to that role, but honestly every time I interact w/ her she ends up changing my mind (e.g initially I thought 4209 seemed overly simplified and flat but I think she explained the thought process pretty well; I think w/o being a full blown watcher I'd probably be townreading skitter pretty hard

ffery thinks gamma is scum, and I did early on but I'm kinda lost, I think some posts like 4178 seem like pretty proper town paranoia to me

what about peta? he's seemed pretty good overall and I was kind of taken by surprise by HP's indictment of them in the other thread.

midway has seemed town to me mostly until his jump on FL, but I think the way he is engaging you on us seems town to me

Let's start here and I realize these are kinda some broad strokes; I'm trying to reassess/reread some stuff in the meantime

-b

My thoughts:

The only reason to push skitter is not liking her role, wheras pooky is based on play, correct?

We don't have all the info on the setup right now, so in my opinion we should be going after Pooky. As a side note, if Skitter is by chance not scum then she is a strong town power role. I'm not saying don't lim her just for that, but when there's multiple scumspects anyway there's a point to be had there. Also, the by play read is stronger than the mechanical/role read

[Dunnstral]

I mean the fact that I was in the purple room is out now, anyways...

We might as well take advantage of that.

Other thread might need to have peta-midway intervention with Bell.

Every time I look over there I see something from Bell that would wake me up out of a sound sleep and send me to a keyboard if I were in that thread.

What is Bell doing that is scummy?

[Dunnstral]

I want to turnstile Pooky and yeet Gamma.

Is that a reasonable action? assumign the other thread will yeet pooky

i'm ok w/ it, especially if civilized!thread can't figure out who to go for

I also subscribe to the idea that trying to rid one thread entirely of scum is akin to trying to win a mini w/ only partial flip information and would prefer we do things that have a higher floor in value (I'm in the minority of purple room occupants w/ that opinion; Nacho in particular wanted to try to rid forward of scum, i just think that's a mechanic that has a crappy feedback mechanism to how close you are

-b

I sort of agree with just going for who we think is scum, but still think we should try to go for the sweep. The catch here is I think it's ok to elim from our group right now, there's certainly scum over here.

That would mean you guys elim pooky, we elim someone and send someone else over

The downside is that we can't elim two people from your thread, I guess. Personally, I think it's scummy or at least escapist from both sides to be saying that most of the scum is in the other thread

[Dunnstral]

I sort of agree with just going for who we think is scum, but still think we should try to go for the sweep. The catch here is I think it's ok to elim from our group right now, there's certainly scum over here.

That would mean you guys elim pooky, we elim someone and send someone else over

The downside is that we can't elim two people from your thread, I guess. Personally, I think it's scummy or at least escapist from both sides to be saying that most of the scum is in the other thread

who are you scum reading atm? just did a quick ISO and I don't see an obvious answer to that

-b

This is an awkward question for me to answer right now, in general I'm scumreading pooky and skitter on your side of things, while thinking more about my side of things. If we're talking townreads, I have a lot of those I can share

[Dunnstral]

Why are we not turnstyling anyone again?

Because it introduces the possibiity of sending scum to the timestream we've been trying to purge scum from.

I highly doubt we achieve this goal

Even so, it's a goal we can try for. We have 2 more chances to clear that timestream today.

The issue is if we try this scum can manipulate it to create a wildly advantageous gamestate

Can you explain how your side not sending someone over for one day leads to that? Your fear-mongering feels baseless and even scummy

[Dunnstral]

Okay I think we have some business to take care of:

• Who are we turnstyling today?
  - I know some advocate not sending anyone over, but can't the other thread not turnstyle until we do? If that's the case we need to figure out who is being sent.
  
  
• Skittle slot
  - It seems like we have no plan for this. We have a CC and an opposite side power role.
  Why are we leaving this around until late game?
  If we're not elimming, we should at least send the slot over so we can potentially get something useful out of this. We need to make a decision now: turnstyle or elim.
  
  
• Purple Room
  - I'm fine with being the purple room today, but if I'm also getting turnstyled we may need to reconsider this plan. I think this also makes the turnstyle skittle plan more appealing, since it makes our purple room choice simple.

Can you explain the middle point, what cc are you thinking of for Skittle?

[Dunnstral]

Both timestreams also have access to the Purple Room, a temporary neighborhood that opens each night. Each timestream may vote for an Operative to go to the Purple Room with an Operative from the other timestream in the same manner as voting for the elimination and Turnstiles. A new PT is created each night.

@superbowl9

So your tinfoil doesn't make sense, it's a new pt every night. Also, this is more fear-mongering

[Annie Edison]

@bork pls don’t send skitter tia

[Dunnstral]

Awkward because I don't want to say. I'm looking at another players role soft, and I won't be able to push them without exposing the role soft. And I'm not sure if that's what I should be doing right now. Right now on my side of things I'm willing to wait a day and a half for Brian/A50 to make cases

[Dunnstral]

I need some time to think about it right now, I'll be able to push someone on my side either way if that's what you're worried about.

My ordered townreads, with the top group being more confident and the bottom being less so, are the following:

Forward:
[Annie Edison, Hench Princesses]
[Titus, Gypyx]


Inverse:
[Deacon, Dandelion Wine]
[Lady Lambdadelta, GFITAC]

In addition, I'm keeping Unwnd's thoughts as of post 1359 in mind (because I have a level in trust in his reads and respect his playstyle). So I'm noting his top townreads, especially. Which is Spiffeh, Muffin, Peta, Suberb which differs from my own reads (which is either null or no read)

Also, there is a lot of room to add people to these lists

[Dunnstral]

Even if skittle dies over there I think that's fine no? That basically is the same as giving the other side a no elim AND effectively is a no turnstyle for us right? It seems like a good idea no matter what happens

Why do you want our side to no elim? There's scum over here. And no, it's not effectively a no turnstyle, that removes one of our options to try to clear this side.

[Dunnstral]

Also, why are you voting to send yourself over here? That's not what you just said.

[Dunnstral]

Also, why are you voting to send yourself over here? That's not what you just said.

He's not. Unvote in reverse timestream = Vote in forwards timestream.

Does Superbowl9 realize that sending skitter over removes one of our sides chances to take out scum? Which not only certainly exist on this side, but also has an added mechanical benefit of clearing everyone if they're removed.

[Dunnstral]

If we're going to lim skittle at some point keeping her around in this timestream is just bad regardless of her alignment

Yeah. What about Pooky though? I need you to chill out, Skitter isn't going anywhere. Maybe new mechanical info opens up by day 3. If not, we can elim her. There's a queue for getting rid of people right now, I argue Pooky should be at the front because Pooky being scum doesn't rely on anything mechanical. Our side has our own scum to take out. You need to realize that this is one big game and you and me are players in both threads, and just yeeting your scum over here isn't the best plan right now.[color]

[Dunnstral]

Deacon, can you direct Superbowl's attention here?

[Bell]

I've never seen Dunnstral post this much.
It's miraculous.

I don't really need an intervention on reads from the other side of the thread. I'm just weirded out Peta hasn't town binned me yet, given their experience w/ my play. I'm not sure how I feel about them not wanting to think after imploring us all to think critically at the start of this day phase and reeval. Luckily, hypocrisy is not a scum tell or we'd all be scum.

[Dunnstral]

@superbowl

Deacon, can you direct Superbowl's attention here?

look at Dunnstral's posts on page 130 of the forward thread

Not sure what I should be looking at the logic still doesn't make much sense to me - they don't seem like they are as willing to lim scum over there, why are we delaying skittle's inevitable demise? It just seems like poor decisionmaking to not turnstyle anyone from either side today - you have the same chance of getting 2 scum by sending skittle over, limming, and sending scum over here for us to lim as you do by each side limming on their own. The only reason to delay this is to keep skittle alive with a vanilla role in this timestream which seems very bad to me - if you don't have enough evidence to say that skittle should 100% be limmed, then send her over anyways and maybe get a few night action uses.

We are turnstiling, our side is, your side isn't. We're trying to get as many people out of this group as possible, to go for the full clear. It's likely, but it's possible, so there's no reason to send skitter over here. I'm willing to elim people over here. I've explained this multiple times now, if this side has to elim someone from that side, we have one less person we can lim/move out of here, making it less likely that we clear ourselves. You're again failing to consider that there is scum on this side that can be eliminated. Skitter isn't getting away, but shouldn't worry about her role for now. If mech info comes out by day 3 indicating she's more likely town, then she can come over and try to use her night action for a bit. Otherwise, it's fine if we elim her, and in the meantime, on day 2, he have pooky, who if we don't elim today, will also be a topic on day 3, but with no mechanical info unique to their self that can exonerate them[color]

[Dunnstral]

Turnstiling someone over here doesn't help. There's already scum on this side that we can find and try to eliminate, but you're not looking at that because you only care about your side of the thread. Town controls the majority vote

[Dunnstral]

We have to turnstyle someone before yours opens. You can't turnstyle without us going first

Oh. I didn't know this, this explains why I wasn't getting through to you.

[Hench Princesses]

we are wasting our turnstyles

this is a much better argument than what you led with. If you want to argue that we should just be sending people who claim to have a mech role better on one side and that is *better* than going for the full elim, that's a viable position insofar as the turnstiles don't fundamentally change number ratios by day 4 (since we could just turnstile day 3, which we can't if you don't turnstile day 2).

Probably also some sunk cost fallacy at this point as well. "Turnstile all the mech" would have been a much better idea if we'd been doing that from day 1. In retrospect that's probably the 'safer' play now that we know more about the setup, just to get more mech on the table. And I do understand a world where yesterday the IC was saying how we were playing mech and now we actually have to use our brains. Did anyone other than fire or skitter have roles that were supposed to be better on this side?

[Dunnstral]

The strat isn't dumb as long as don't dedicate everything to it. It's something to keep in mind on the side as we accomplish our main goal of removing scum from the game. Playing only to the strat would be dumb, but that's not what I'm arguing.

[Hench Princesses]

We have to turnstyle someone before yours opens. You can't turnstyle without us going first

Oh. I didn't know this, this explains why I wasn't getting through to you.

I don't think this is accurate. They did one yesterday so we can do one today. It's more that if they do not turnstile today, then we cannot turnstile on day 3.

[Dunnstral]

Didn't the IC say to turnstile from our thread, but not their thread? That's what messed me up