PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Double the Trouble]

bitmap's posting was just
so painful to hurts T_T

[Flavor Leaf]

Nothing you can do about it, you aren't really in the game, haha

[Double the Trouble]

like man
we could have been hanging out in the scum PT together and like
hanging out

idunno maybe we just need to hang out again sometime when this stupid fucking plague goes away.

[Double the Trouble]

idc if I die d1 in this playerlist
its still like super fun

[Flavor Leaf]

Sounds good. You're like what, 20 minutes away from me?

I'm sure flippyNips would be down.

[Double the Trouble]

interacting with another human being in real life?
I haven't done that since 2019 holy shit.

[mastina]

but ya mastina aside from like, polar bears are there any problems? I feel like my solve covers like all of the options?

I don't think so.

If all of {Spiffeh, DEB, Dunn, Toogeloo} end up dead, I legit think the game is a town win so the order and method isn't important to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

hanging out with people is some 2019 shit

[Double the Trouble]

but ya mastina aside from like, polar bears are there any problems? I feel like my solve covers like all of the options?

I don't think so.

If all of {Spiffeh, DEB, Dunn, Toogeloo} end up dead, I legit think the game is a town win so the order and method isn't important to me.

ig im done playing the mafia game then at least for tonight.

time to hang out at 4 am before i go to bed

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, anime needs to stop going weekly with no breaks.

Nobody fucks with the filler or anime cannon, especially not in 2020.

[Double the Trouble]

hanging out with people is some 2019 shit

2019: Hanging out with the bois in real life
2020: Hanging out with the bois in a zoom meeting

[Double the Trouble]

Also, anime needs to stop going weekly with no breaks.

Nobody fucks with the filler or anime cannon, especially not in 2020.

TRUE

[Double the Trouble]

okay well i think im going to start prepping for bed
ywall can have norwee until I wake up ig
have fun

[Double the Trouble]

Alisae just wants to kill Dunn and i'm fine with it.
VOTE: Dunnstral

- Norwee

[Double the Trouble]

It doesn't even have that much to do with DEB's guilty, Dunn has always been scummy.

- Norwee

[Ircher]

What teammates does he support? Like, Bell is reasonably a 4th pick in the draft, maybe 3rd.

I think Bell's a stronger scum player than you are giving them credit here. Also, the bans probably play a big role in who Flavor Leaf picks.

- 1485 is actually really interesting positioning considering creature was kinda lhf at the time but no one really talked about it. If he was scum, I doubt he comes out with this read on the player. You could argue that his progression on creature is like weird but like idunno

Toogeloo's read on Creature in that post is a "Flavor Leaf wouldn't draft Creature"-read. I don't see how you find that weird positioning or a weird progression.

- 3610 is some conspiracy shit that doesn't come from scum lol

Uh no. If Toogeloo is scum, then Toogeloo probably sees that the writing is on the wall. They would need to find new people outside the established pools (i.e.: DEB, Dunn, Spiffeh) to give pressure in the hopes of surviving.

- not knowing how mechanics works is a towntell and this is shown in the fact he doesn't know anything about the fact that FL can suggest 2 "rules"

This can be faked. Note that I am not commenting on whether Toogeloo's lack of awareness is fake or not.

The reason why I'm so hooked on this {Spiffeh, Dunn, Polar Bears} solve is like
the slots just refuse to scumread each other and it seems like they're just supporting each other like how teammates would like.

If true, this is a pretty good point actually. I'll have to look into it.

3 masons + vig is 4 confirmed town

We should have never trusted an investigative claim

It's a 17p setup, and we have no idea what scum has. Well, I guess it's reasonable to suppose that scum don't have a roleblocker. 3 masons in a 13p mini normal is considered close to balanced.

I guess the detective claim looks worse when we consider pichu's role, but again, we don't know what powers scum has. Furthermore, pichu's role was rather gated and only able to get guilties on a very specific kind of scum. If we suppose the mafia team isn't all goons (which is a reasonable assumption in my opinion), it's probably on the weaker side; probably around tracker level of power.

Also, this is 100% a conspiracy theory, but we don't even know if the vig is town. Scum vigs are unusual, but it's not impossible especially when scum can choose their roles.

I think vig pool should be
{DEB, Polar Bears, Spiffeh, Toogeloo}

I think DEB should be shot if and only if Dunnstral flips town. While it's possible it's scum-scum, I think it's not super likely as it's a really risky move. I'm fine with saving DEB as the last scum if we must; DEB will still have to fake Detective results. Hmmm... That's another possibility. If the vig is town (which is likely), then DEB could be true claiming Detective here (as scum). Scum could use a detective to try to find the vig.

So, tell me why I should even bother to try to solve the game when you’re ignoring my posts and are hellbent on miseliming us?

Because if you are solving, your slot will naturally come across as town? Like, solving seems a win-win situation to me: 1) you are less likely to get limmed and 2) you are more likely to help advance town's win con by finding scum. Also, Double the Trouble and some of the suspects are the only ones scum reading you. The majority is town reading your slot. You should solve for the rest of us even if Double ignores you.

VOTE: Toogeloo

(Adding to my ISO...)

I can see FL picking Toogeloo for specifically that reason; he has this tendency to slip through the radar, be written off, be ignored, be invisible, the entire game, in spite of not doing much of anything. That's a valuable player to have on your scumteam.

I agree strongly with this take (note: I don't have the meta experience to verify the claim, but the rest of it is what I agree strongly with), and I think it matches Toogeloo's play this game. They have constantly been floated as possible scum, but it wasn't until recently where they have received more direct pressure. Part of that is that they seem to lack a commanding presence, so when they post, they naturally just slip by past people and garner little attention.

FL picked Toogeloo to slip through the radar, be written off and ignored, and be invisible, yet he's anything but that? And yet he can be elimination bait but he's not?

Toogeloo has done precisely that Day 1 and Day 2. It's not a nonsensical take; they have garnered very little attention aside from being a predominantly PoE read for many players, the kind of read people don't pay much attention to.

At bottom of page 212.

[Dunnstral]

It's a 17p setup, and we have no idea what scum has. Well, I guess it's reasonable to suppose that scum don't have a roleblocker. 3 masons in a 13p mini normal is considered close to balanced.

3 masons in a 13p game

3 masons, a vig, a cop, and a detective in a 17p game?

[Dunnstral]

That's not the setup, actually:

Strong-willed Simple Disloyal Vanilla Cop
Roaming Doctor
Informed townie
3 masons
Vigilante
Detective

And you think the mafia team is all goons?

[Dunnstral]

Well, I guess it's reasonable to suppose that scum don't have a roleblocker.

The cop is strong-willed, I assume the opposite

[Dunnstral]

That's not the setup, actually:

Strong-willed Simple Disloyal Vanilla Cop
Roaming Doctor
Informed townie
3 masons
Vigilante
Detective

And you think the mafia team is all goons?

Oh and Supersaint Enabler...

[Dunnstral]

Alright so you don't think it's all goons.
Still, thinking DEB's role can exist at all is mind boggling at this point

[Ircher]

Oh no. Masons controlling the game. Let me complain about it and shade them so hard that maybe my scum team won’t get completely destroyed. That’s way easier than solving when nobody cares about my Ydrasse read.

- Norwee

I kinda see Gloria's point. Like the mass claim really killed the game's momentum, and it's kinda amazing we have recovered from it as well as we have. I do agree that Gloria's behavior is rather antitown, but I can sort of see why Gloria feels demotivated in the current game state.

people were planting the seeds that would set up toogeloo to be elimination bait on days 1 and 2.
I know spiffeh planted a few of those seeds.
noraa planted them.

Do you have quotes or post numbers to back this assertion up?

Like
mastina come on
that's just a red flag

Red flags are valid, but they are simply that--flags, not conclusive evidence. I haven't seen much from Toogeloo that would dissuade me from my current position.

Ircher could be scum hidden in the townies

Doesn't he have a good grasp of setup balance? How is he ok with the implication of 3 masons, a cop, a vigilante, and a detective?

I have a generally good sense, yes, but my specialty is more minis and micros. Anyway, there are a bunch of unknowns here still since we don't know what scum have. Also, I forgot about the doctor. That changes things somewhat. The cop as I already mentioned is heavily gated. The vig is potentially one-shot, so it may be only a middling PR here. I do think something like 3 masons + Heavily Gated Cop + Roaming Doc + Odd Night Vig + Supersaint Enabler vs. Mafia Detective + 2nd Mafia Investigative + 2x Mafia Goons might seem balanced, but again, it's hard to tell in a setup where scum chose their roles. (I will mention once more though that I forgot about the doc flip when evaluating the setup's balance; that does make it rather more likely DEB is scum here. Without the doc, I think it's perfectly plausible that DEB is town.) Also, 6 or 7 town PRs in a 17p large doesn't seem very unusual. The masons here are of course the bulk of the setup's power, and as I commented before, 3 masons in a 13p normal (which doesn't need as much town power as 13-4) is relatively balanced, probably a bit on the scum side.

Drafting people who stay under the radar is a losing strategy in this setup.

Dr Easy Bake is under the radar.

Yes, but that's DEB's style.

its you plebeians that are going to win the game in F3-5-7-whatever because we're going to be dead and we died to set that up for ywall

I hope not. Hopefully, the game is over by then.

How many pages y'all think are in the Scum PT?

With you at the helm? Probably 20+ at this point.

Well, I guess it's reasonable to suppose that scum don't have a roleblocker.

The cop is strong-willed, I assume the opposite

I was thinking more along the lines of DEB getting a result last night. I guess that's a bad assumption.

[Ircher]

Also, limming you remains the superior mechanical play here, even if setup spec points the other direction.

At the bottom of 5395.

[Dunnstral]

No, the best play is to lim toogeloo and then shoot DEB

[Dunnstral]

You brought up a good point that Pichu was strong willed but DEB is claiming a result anyway.