Yellowstone

[MathBlade]

Also my TR on Math has disappeared. the main reason for my TR was bc I thought he was softing vig and that it would be provable. But now that Jacko claimed vig, that no longer applies.

Oh I was softing but not that

Go for it.

Push me.

C’mon I dare you. Lol

TR disappear doesn't equal SR....
why are you so damn defensive?!!?!??!

Lol yes it does and that’s not defensive.

I am literally telling you to bring it.

[MathBlade]

I want to use your suspicion to read you.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also my TR on Math has disappeared. the main reason for my TR was bc I thought he was softing vig and that it would be provable. But now that Jacko claimed vig, that no longer applies.

Usually reads on PR softs are unreliable

[Noraa]

Im not suspicious of you. My reason to TR you is gone and now you are a null.

[Noraa]

Also my TR on Math has disappeared. the main reason for my TR was bc I thought he was softing vig and that it would be provable. But now that Jacko claimed vig, that no longer applies.

Usually reads on PR softs are unreliable

well I didn't know better so eh.

[Infinity 324]

Can we not do this? Scum already have more info than they should. I’m pretty sure math is town.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also my TR on Math has disappeared. the main reason for my TR was bc I thought he was softing vig and that it would be provable. But now that Jacko claimed vig, that no longer applies.

Oh I was softing but not that

Go for it.

Push me.

C’mon I dare you. Lol

TR disappear doesn't equal SR....
why are you so damn defensive?!!?!??!

Lol yes it does and that’s not defensive.

I am literally telling you to bring it.

Actually no it doesn’t.

TR disappearing can mean null or scum read doesn’t inherently mean that they’re Insta-SRing you

[Noraa]

Can we not do this? Scum already have more info than they should. I’m pretty sure math is town.

I dunno if I agree math is town. He's so defensive.

Im just like "My TR on u disappeared, Math"

and he's like "WELL COME AT ME NORAA."

its like .... UH wut?!

[MathBlade]

Can we not do this? Scum already have more info than they should. I’m pretty sure math is town.

If they already know then what’s the harm?

If they don’t know how will Noraa scumcasing me help them figure out I am town?

What’s the risk to making Noraa articulate things?

[Infinity 324]

I don’t want you to claim anything is all.

[MathBlade]

I don’t want you to claim anything is all.

Wasn’t planning on it. Lol

[MathBlade]

Can we not do this? Scum already have more info than they should. I’m pretty sure math is town.

I dunno if I agree math is town. He's so defensive.

Im just like "My TR on u disappeared, Math"

and he's like "WELL COME AT ME NORAA."

its like .... UH wut?!

Come at me. Case me. You know you want to

[Momrangal]

RE: Missing nightkill

We need a massclaim.

I think I support this. Need time to wake and become fully cognizant

[Momrangal]

Later in the day, though.

[MathBlade]

Hi mom! Think we should have a plan for this.

Pants protection is important.

I gotta get back to work but we should be careful.

VOTE: Guillo

That’s my thoughts atm.

[Guillotina]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

What was not Townie by the end of the day?

His aggression and sorting from earlier in the day turned into a very forgettable presence. It felt like he was saying stuff just to say it. The progression on horse, from thinking she said some towny stuff to going back to scumreading her didn’t feel particularly genuine. The response to flea’s case felt...not as flippant as I expected. The case was bad enough imo that I think most would be really frustrated by it as town and guillo instead seemed to give more validity to the case than it had.

That's very vague. Provide quotes.

What stuff was I saying just to say it?

[DrippingGoofball]

Hi mom! Think we should have a plan for this.

Pants protection is important.

No one wants a blizzard in their bloomers.

[Guillotina]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

I Was town before? How does one stop being being part of an alignment?

I am town and im not getting yeeted.

[Guillotina]

can someone fill me in on the important stuff that happened in the last like 20 pages or something?

a) Math pushed Horse hard, flipped VT
b) Toogolo got shot by yours truly, mafia kill went poof bye bye.
c) DGB says they may or may not know something about the missing mofia kill, and suggested a mass-claim.
d) Others says mass-claim is not smart, maybe the mason decides what happens as they're close to conftown.
e) Noraa came in asking what's happened
f) Jacko came in with a list of what's happened.
g) Jacko prepares to press the submit button
h) Jacko presses the-

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?
Why tf would DGB suggest mass claim. that's stupid.
Ok fun good summary.

The masons are confirmed or are you PR hunting?

[Momrangal]

I want a claim from Mark.

Then thoughts on who he thinks should go next and why. I'll either agree, or pick the next target myself

[Guillotina]

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?

Jackson claimed responsibility for the Toog kill.

Ohhhh. Ok so possibilities are
1) Jacko is scum
2) Jacko and scum double killed toog (Trust me this is possible. Last time I was vig, the scums and me killed the same person and that's why the doc on that person didn't work)
3) Jacko is vig and something happened to the scum kill

I think 3 is the most likely, and I think 1 is way more likely than 2. I don’t see why scum would shoot toog if not to semi-confirm a vig claim.

VOTE: guillo I’m gonna trust math here, but reluctantly. The last time I let a scumread go because of a soft they were scum.

I am not sure if he’s scum or not. I kinda wanna see where this plays out. I think he probably is but am not like sure sure.

Oh so you went from hardcore townreading me yesterday to you thinking i probably am scum in less than 12 hours after the n1 result?

[Guillotina]

Im not suspicious of you. My reason to TR you is gone and now you are a null.

What reason was that? Elaborate please.

[Infinity 324]

I quoted a lot of guillo's end of day and it's even worse than I thought. Very little of it has a scumhunting purpose, and there's a lot of LAMIST and pocketing of math and mark.

Spoiler:

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

o

VOTE: Horsewoman

why the backflip here?

VOTE: Horsewoman

Horsewoman and Toog based on skim of VCs

What about VCs enables you to be remotely as confident as you are about this

I townread your counterwagon. I don't townread you.

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

Rule of three says anytime scum list three names there’s a high likelihood one or more is scum to maintain credibility/gamestate. It’s not a sure fire thing but it’s more likely. I am still catching up but generally I look for things like that and see if they are supported by the gamestate

I don't think she'd name both? Too risky. Don't you think?

Horse is still town

If not Horse, who else would you yeet as of now?

Horse is still town

Horse is still town despite voting a mason.

Funny.

Vote horse or you’re scum with her.

I don't like the tone of this.

What happens if Horse flips town then? How would you read Infinity then?

Let every player cast their vote without pressure, it's easier to sort wagons and vanity wagons out that way.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Stuff like this makes me think infinity is scum.

If he thought the mason claim was fake his vote is okay.

If he thought the mason claim was real why vote her if town?

I really just think it’s Horse+Infinity and maybe I was wrong on Toog.

I would wanna flip Horse to see if that assumption is correct.

Yah but infinity is not saying that he believed the claim was real, and he didnt as Momrangal had to confirm for him to remove his vote. So, i think it is genuine.
What he is saying is that if you were certain that Momrangal was Mason, you couldn't have felt worried, which is not necessarily AI but it is wrong! Because the wagon was going up fast in votes and she could have been yeeted at that rate.

I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here.

... if she is a fake and

she is baiting real masons

and the real masons take the bait, that's like 1 for 2 from a scum perspective.
tho

normally scum try to bait out roles

like vig or cop I'll admit.

I believe the claim but ur reasoning for believing it are dumber than having no reason imo.

No! They never would try to outright bait for Masons in a themed game! LOL They would hunt for PRs ALWAYS!!!

Also, two Masons counterclaiming does not guarantee their demise during the night for a "1 for 2!" Are you for real!? They become town clears and PRs will confirm/protect/watch those town clears, hence why scum will not try to attack them on Night 1! You always protect the town clears over everyone else this early game! Get out of here!

So yah! I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here still stands!

Good job at looking dumber while calling other people dumb.

Right, I have at least read the last 13 pages. Digesting it all and applying scrutiny will happen at an undisclosed date TBC

UNVOTE: Momrangal - because eliming a claimed mason would be bad. Cool things that came out of this wagon include:
--Premature claim - being elimed overnight from E-2 seems like overcaution to me (++TR for JV asking the same question that was in my head ref this in 793). This being said, I reckon the claim is probably legit because would be a massive risk to fake-claim mason and get counterclaimed.
--789 from flea casting doubt over the mason claim confused me - @Flea: why don't you believe the claim?
--973 is a mahooosive stretch from noraa to try and shade DGB by implying they were avoiding the thread in case mom got hammered in the meantime

Math makes a good argument ref infinity's seemingly inconsistent position on Mom ref whether he believed their claim or not

BUT

the bigger question is why did Toog vote there after the claim? I was TRing them before this wagon but their behavior (vote there after the claim then subsequently unvote) just straight-up confuses me. Wondering if TSTBS

Guillo is swinging ++TR of the back of the last 10 pages or so - I won't quote any single post as it is more the consistent proactiveness and analysis. @Guillo - I have skimmed your response to me ref why you SR me so thanks for taking the time to articulate that and I'll take the time to properly read it and respond tomorrow IRL.

++SR Pig for 858 - his only contribution of the back off all that drama was his unvote and some IIOA (checkout me learning all the lingo!)

Keen to hear from Flea ref why they weren't convinced ref the mason claim and from toog ref his post-claim vote. These are two potential smoking guns right now IMO

VOTE: Toogeloo seems like a good place to be for now. Ref horse, I need to look at her more as stuff like 683 where she defends Mom just feels ++TR. If they were scum and looking likely the most likely elim today then why would they try to defend the next most likely elim target at the time?

I love this post and looking forward to your response to my read on you.

I'm willing to eliminate Toogeloo if Horsewoman and Noraa yeets are out of question today.

In order of preference: Noraa, Horsewoman, Toogeloo

Pig, i'd like to request a Prod, im not yeeting that slot today as it would give us no information.

And how did they play in previous games?

Not sure.
I've played two games with him.
One where he was town and got nk'ed for softing pr hard.
The other where he was scum and doomed his slot.

Lies. Three games.

230 normal - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84936

Open 800 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84885

Xenoblade 2 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84949

Why not? I would even if it was not directed at me. Do you recommend other players to ignore it? Are you not going to read my equally long reply to that long post? What if i said that my long wall post is more readable than Faer as the fonts were colored to stand out (unless you got ocular problems of course).

To me it was important to reply to her antagonizing ill intended long post on me, i think it is important you read it and my reply to it as well.

Clearly I am not recommending other players ignore it - it would be great if everyone read every post in the game. I am, however, a pragmatist, so I was just giving the advice that shorter, more concise dives would probably get more widely read. A lot of it also felt very speculative/borderline confbiased, which I noted you picked up in your response (tbqh I skimmed your response, but will read as time allows). An example of this confbias/stretching is you having them as null in your reads list, which tbf I found odd but made sense when you explained it.

Yah honestly several shorter chunks would have been great.

Thank you for your responses. You are out of my scum list. I wanna town lean you but i wanna be cautious too, you are in probation instead (null)

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

Sorry but i dont judge based on meta from other games.

Then what about the VCA from this one?

What does it tell you?

Give me something that says why you townread Horse instead of just “no”.

I don't townread Horsewoman i just have doubts about her being scum, in fact i'm looking at her closely today to confirm something.

I'm here to rock your worlds yo![/quote]

This is something that at least gives insight on you and can hopefully help others see why I townread you. We need more posts like this. I disagree with the no meta thing but I get it as I used to be a no meta player. People please go into detail like G is when you post. Please.

Bruh this is too much. Like im very wary when people put me on a pedestal like that cause

Positive Reality Support

exists and elimination by associations exists too.

Positive Reality Support.

Gaslighting is a manipulation technique used to deny a person’s reality in order to make them doubt their own mind, intuition, and perception of events. The term comes from a play/movie where a husband dismisses as merely imagined his wife’s notice of the gas lights being dimmed, while he indeed inadvertently dimmed the lights by using gas lights elsewhere to search for jewels of a woman he has murdered. Gaslighting is often contrasted to the

positive support of player

‘realities’, but that support can also be feigned and twisted to mafia advantage. In fact the two are often commingled so that it becomes confusing to separate harm from an appearance of support – a passive-aggressive chipping away of player confidences, tricking them into being unsure of anything.

Imagine if you actually flipped scum, this post could associate me with you and get me misyeeted.

Let's townread each other for the right reasons, i understand my sit in your town list is not guaranteed as neither is yours in mine.

[Momrangal]

I want a claim from Mark.

Then thoughts on who he thinks should go next and why. I'll either agree, or pick the next target myself

[Guillotina]

Can we not do this? Scum already have more info than they should. I’m pretty sure math is town.

So you state that scum already have more info than they should and then you say you are pretty sure Math is town.

That's contradicting!