Yellowstone

[Infinity 324]

So you state that scum already have more info than they should and then you say you are pretty sure Math is town.

That's contradicting!

Me saying that math is town doesn't give scum much more info than they already had given my stated TR on math d1.

[Infinity 324]

If we're gonna massclaim, do we want to wait to out the protective? That at least makes it harder for scum to pick off PRs.

[Momrangal]

The idea here is to hopefully do that, yes. I have a list of people I want to go first which is why I have semi-control over the order of claims but I do want to hear the opinion of others between claims as well

[MathBlade]

Oooh I like it. Controlled burn. Keeping what pants necessary on.

[DrippingGoofball]

If we're gonna massclaim, do we want to wait to out the protective? That at least makes it harder for scum to pick off PRs.

If the protective protected the Mason, that player should claim VT.

[Guillotina]

I quoted a lot of guillo's end of day and it's even worse than I thought. Very little of it has a scumhunting purpose, and there's a lot of LAMIST and pocketing of math and mark.

Spoiler:

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

o

VOTE: Horsewoman

why the backflip here?

VOTE: Horsewoman

Horsewoman and Toog based on skim of VCs

What about VCs enables you to be remotely as confident as you are about this

I townread your counterwagon. I don't townread you.

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

Rule of three says anytime scum list three names there’s a high likelihood one or more is scum to maintain credibility/gamestate. It’s not a sure fire thing but it’s more likely. I am still catching up but generally I look for things like that and see if they are supported by the gamestate

I don't think she'd name both? Too risky. Don't you think?

Horse is still town

If not Horse, who else would you yeet as of now?

Horse is still town

Horse is still town despite voting a mason.

Funny.

Vote horse or you’re scum with her.

I don't like the tone of this.

What happens if Horse flips town then? How would you read Infinity then?

Let every player cast their vote without pressure, it's easier to sort wagons and vanity wagons out that way.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Stuff like this makes me think infinity is scum.

If he thought the mason claim was fake his vote is okay.

If he thought the mason claim was real why vote her if town?

I really just think it’s Horse+Infinity and maybe I was wrong on Toog.

I would wanna flip Horse to see if that assumption is correct.

Yah but infinity is not saying that he believed the claim was real, and he didnt as Momrangal had to confirm for him to remove his vote. So, i think it is genuine.
What he is saying is that if you were certain that Momrangal was Mason, you couldn't have felt worried, which is not necessarily AI but it is wrong! Because the wagon was going up fast in votes and she could have been yeeted at that rate.

I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here.

... if she is a fake and

she is baiting real masons

and the real masons take the bait, that's like 1 for 2 from a scum perspective.
tho

normally scum try to bait out roles

like vig or cop I'll admit.

I believe the claim but ur reasoning for believing it are dumber than having no reason imo.

No! They never would try to outright bait for Masons in a themed game! LOL They would hunt for PRs ALWAYS!!!

Also, two Masons counterclaiming does not guarantee their demise during the night for a "1 for 2!" Are you for real!? They become town clears and PRs will confirm/protect/watch those town clears, hence why scum will not try to attack them on Night 1! You always protect the town clears over everyone else this early game! Get out of here!

So yah! I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here still stands!

Good job at looking dumber while calling other people dumb.

Right, I have at least read the last 13 pages. Digesting it all and applying scrutiny will happen at an undisclosed date TBC

UNVOTE: Momrangal - because eliming a claimed mason would be bad. Cool things that came out of this wagon include:
--Premature claim - being elimed overnight from E-2 seems like overcaution to me (++TR for JV asking the same question that was in my head ref this in 793). This being said, I reckon the claim is probably legit because would be a massive risk to fake-claim mason and get counterclaimed.
--789 from flea casting doubt over the mason claim confused me - @Flea: why don't you believe the claim?
--973 is a mahooosive stretch from noraa to try and shade DGB by implying they were avoiding the thread in case mom got hammered in the meantime

Math makes a good argument ref infinity's seemingly inconsistent position on Mom ref whether he believed their claim or not

BUT

the bigger question is why did Toog vote there after the claim? I was TRing them before this wagon but their behavior (vote there after the claim then subsequently unvote) just straight-up confuses me. Wondering if TSTBS

Guillo is swinging ++TR of the back of the last 10 pages or so - I won't quote any single post as it is more the consistent proactiveness and analysis. @Guillo - I have skimmed your response to me ref why you SR me so thanks for taking the time to articulate that and I'll take the time to properly read it and respond tomorrow IRL.

++SR Pig for 858 - his only contribution of the back off all that drama was his unvote and some IIOA (checkout me learning all the lingo!)

Keen to hear from Flea ref why they weren't convinced ref the mason claim and from toog ref his post-claim vote. These are two potential smoking guns right now IMO

VOTE: Toogeloo seems like a good place to be for now. Ref horse, I need to look at her more as stuff like 683 where she defends Mom just feels ++TR. If they were scum and looking likely the most likely elim today then why would they try to defend the next most likely elim target at the time?

I love this post and looking forward to your response to my read on you.

I'm willing to eliminate Toogeloo if Horsewoman and Noraa yeets are out of question today.

In order of preference: Noraa, Horsewoman, Toogeloo

Pig, i'd like to request a Prod, im not yeeting that slot today as it would give us no information.

And how did they play in previous games?

Not sure.
I've played two games with him.
One where he was town and got nk'ed for softing pr hard.
The other where he was scum and doomed his slot.

Lies. Three games.

230 normal - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84936

Open 800 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84885

Xenoblade 2 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84949

Why not? I would even if it was not directed at me. Do you recommend other players to ignore it? Are you not going to read my equally long reply to that long post? What if i said that my long wall post is more readable than Faer as the fonts were colored to stand out (unless you got ocular problems of course).

To me it was important to reply to her antagonizing ill intended long post on me, i think it is important you read it and my reply to it as well.

Clearly I am not recommending other players ignore it - it would be great if everyone read every post in the game. I am, however, a pragmatist, so I was just giving the advice that shorter, more concise dives would probably get more widely read. A lot of it also felt very speculative/borderline confbiased, which I noted you picked up in your response (tbqh I skimmed your response, but will read as time allows). An example of this confbias/stretching is you having them as null in your reads list, which tbf I found odd but made sense when you explained it.

Yah honestly several shorter chunks would have been great.

Thank you for your responses. You are out of my scum list. I wanna town lean you but i wanna be cautious too, you are in probation instead (null)

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

Sorry but i dont judge based on meta from other games.

Then what about the VCA from this one?

What does it tell you?

Give me something that says why you townread Horse instead of just “no”.

I don't townread Horsewoman i just have doubts about her being scum, in fact i'm looking at her closely today to confirm something.

I'm here to rock your worlds yo!

This is something that at least gives insight on you and can hopefully help others see why I townread you. We need more posts like this. I disagree with the no meta thing but I get it as I used to be a no meta player. People please go into detail like G is when you post. Please.

Bruh this is too much. Like im very wary when people put me on a pedestal like that cause

Positive Reality Support

exists and elimination by associations exists too.

Positive Reality Support.

Gaslighting is a manipulation technique used to deny a person’s reality in order to make them doubt their own mind, intuition, and perception of events. The term comes from a play/movie where a husband dismisses as merely imagined his wife’s notice of the gas lights being dimmed, while he indeed inadvertently dimmed the lights by using gas lights elsewhere to search for jewels of a woman he has murdered. Gaslighting is often contrasted to the

positive support of player

‘realities’, but that support can also be feigned and twisted to mafia advantage. In fact the two are often commingled so that it becomes confusing to separate harm from an appearance of support – a passive-aggressive chipping away of player confidences, tricking them into being unsure of anything.

Imagine if you actually flipped scum, this post could associate me with you and get me misyeeted.

Let's townread each other for the right reasons, i understand my sit in your town list is not guaranteed as neither is yours in mine.

[/spoiler][/quote]

Where does it look like im pocketing anyone here?

[Guillotina]

I fucking hate playing here on mobile

[Guillotina]

When i get to my computer i will address all this BS from infinity

[Infinity 324]

1) JacksonVirgo has disagreed with me, he is still townread. Nono was in my null list, Math took over, we've disagree in pushing methods, i town read him.

Jacko is the only TR you've kept.

You only like Math cuz he TRs u hard and is currently the town leader.

Case in point, he is the town leader and he town reads me.
I townread him because he acts like how town should and I love getting townread because I am town.

Ok maybe this isn’t super pockety but it doesn’t feel super towny either.

[Marky Mark]

Sorry for the slow response - was playing chess with a family member and it ended up going on waaaaaay to long

I'm VT

[Marky Mark]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

What was not Townie by the end of the day?

His aggression and sorting from earlier in the day turned into a very forgettable presence. It felt like he was saying stuff just to say it. The progression on horse, from thinking she said some towny stuff to going back to scumreading her didn’t feel particularly genuine. The response to flea’s case felt...not as flippant as I expected. The case was bad enough imo that I think most would be really frustrated by it as town and guillo instead seemed to give more validity to the case than it had.

You can have a reprieve today.

Got more examples?

Like a case?

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?

Jackson claimed responsibility for the Toog kill.

Ohhhh. Ok so possibilities are
1) Jacko is scum
2) Jacko and scum double killed toog (Trust me this is possible. Last time I was vig, the scums and me killed the same person and that's why the doc on that person didn't work)
3) Jacko is vig and something happened to the scum kill

I think 3 is the most likely, and I think 1 is way more likely than 2. I don’t see why scum would shoot toog if not to semi-confirm a vig claim.

VOTE: guillo I’m gonna trust math here, but reluctantly. The last time I let a scumread go because of a soft they were scum.

Can we not do this? Scum already have more info than they should. I’m pretty sure math is town.

The early infinity vote today from Math followed by this interaction (ie initial distancing then collaborating to vote elsewhere) has solidfied my suspicion of an infinity/math scumpair. Of the two, I think infinity is more likely to be scum tho from their position on the mom wagon.

[Marky Mark]

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?

Jackson claimed responsibility for the Toog kill.

Would be great to have some scrutiny/analysis/opinions from your slot Pig rather than just info on the game state as it would help us sort you

I know you said you are sus of DGB due to the claim thing - what other SRs/TRs do you have any why?

[Marky Mark]

Night all, it's been a pleasure as always and I'm looking forward to seeing how the whole claim shebang that Mom is running works out

[Infinity 324]

Mom said you should say who should claim next and why

[Momrangal]

Mom said you should say who should claim next and why

+1

[Guillotina]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

What was not Townie by the end of the day?

His aggression and sorting from earlier in the day turned into a very forgettable presence

. It felt like he was

saying stuff just to say it

. The progression on horse, from thinking she said some towny stuff to going back to scumreading her didn’t feel

particularly genuine

. The response to flea’s case felt...

not as flippant as I expected

. The case was bad enough imo that I think most would be really frustrated by it as town and

guillo instead seemed to give more validity to the case than it had

.

Ok! I'm at home, let's do this!

1) I was the second highest poster on D1 (i think) where I scumhunted and push the slots that seemed the most suspicious to me. I was very far from being a forgettable presence!
2) I never say stuff just to say it as either alignment, I was split between my logical side scum reading Horsewoman and my heart side townreading her and that manifested in my hesitation to cast a final vote on her in various occasions. I ended up casting it on her because in my opinion she failed to town up, I don't know the reasons she had, she did say she was going through a mental breakdown (paraphrase) but I thought it was AtE. If I would have yeeted Tangeloo instead of Horsewoman if such wagon was possible but we all know that would have been a misyeet as well.
3) Flea's long wall post was ill intended and it was obvious that they were trying to provoke me, I tried to keep it respectful but I'm no goddamn saint, it pissed me off and I acted reacted accordingly. You say it was not as flippant as you expected and I say,

what do you know about me to have expectations about my behavior as a person?

And since when being allegedly disrespectful to someone is alignment indicative?
4) We all (except mafia) are trying scum hunt to solve the game to win. To me, everyone has validity, their opinions matter whether they are wrong or right, bad or good, because those inputs will help us solve the game. So I don't like it when you say that I seemed to give more validity to Flea's case than it had, it was valid for me and I had to address it. How is that bad eh?

[Momrangal]

Nopenopenope

We aren't doing this now.

The claims aren't going to be burried

[Guillotina]

So you state that scum already have more info than they should and then you say you are pretty sure Math is town.

That's contradicting!

Me saying that math is town doesn't give scum much more info than they already had given my stated TR on math d1.

You are not saying that Math is town. You are saying that you are

PRETTY SURE

that Math is town. There are only two scenarios where a player can state confidence on someone's town alignment.

1) The player is scum
2) The player is a cop

For someone who said that we should not give scum more info than they already should have, if we go by your logic, there is no way you are the cop, because that is outing yourself to scum thus providing more info than scum should have right?

Then I conclude that you must be the other option. You must be scum.

[Guillotina]

Hi mom! Think we should have a plan for this.

Pants protection is important.

I gotta get back to work but we should be careful.

VOTE: Guillo

That’s my thoughts atm.

This vote can't be genuine.

You are either a town with bipolarity disorder, or scum, or you are town testing for reactions.

Which one is it?

[MathBlade]

Sorry for the slow response - was playing chess with a family member and it ended up going on waaaaaay to long

I'm VT

I buy this. I think you can be town.

[Flea The Magician]

*chews a tuna sammich carefully*

I'm not on board with massclaim. Not this early anyway.

VOTE: Pigge

I'm still happy with this.

Also on what planet am I scum buddies with nora? I'm almost sat on her bloomin lap! Like not a smart move if she is my buddy.

[Infinity 324]

Nopenopenope

We aren't doing this now.

The claims aren't going to be burried

Do you really want to wait until mark wakes up and checks in again in order to progress the game?

[MathBlade]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

What was not Townie by the end of the day?

His aggression and sorting from earlier in the day turned into a very forgettable presence. It felt like he was saying stuff just to say it. The progression on horse, from thinking she said some towny stuff to going back to scumreading her didn’t feel particularly genuine. The response to flea’s case felt...not as flippant as I expected. The case was bad enough imo that I think most would be really frustrated by it as town and guillo instead seemed to give more validity to the case than it had.

You can have a reprieve today.

Got more examples?

Like a case?

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?

Jackson claimed responsibility for the Toog kill.

Ohhhh. Ok so possibilities are
1) Jacko is scum
2) Jacko and scum double killed toog (Trust me this is possible. Last time I was vig, the scums and me killed the same person and that's why the doc on that person didn't work)
3) Jacko is vig and something happened to the scum kill

I think 3 is the most likely, and I think 1 is way more likely than 2. I don’t see why scum would shoot toog if not to semi-confirm a vig claim.

VOTE: guillo I’m gonna trust math here, but reluctantly. The last time I let a scumread go because of a soft they were scum.

Can we not do this? Scum already have more info than they should. I’m pretty sure math is town.

The early infinity vote today from Math followed by this interaction (ie initial distancing then collaborating to vote elsewhere) has solidfied my suspicion of an infinity/math scumpair. Of the two, I think infinity is more likely to be scum tho from their position on the mom wagon.

Hmmmm I think this is a good sign you’re this dense lol.

I townread infinity based on something he did. Is it possible I am being pocketed? Of course. Likely? Not so much.

[Flea The Magician]

Also can we not bring mental disorders into this as an attack, much thanks

[MathBlade]

Mom said you should say who should claim next and why

+1

Mom you missed Mark’s VT claim.

Who should claim next and why?