Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[Noraa]

I just know he is extremely good at spotting prs. Like GOD TIER.

I say this because in our last game together, we were scum together.

He found the doc enabler night 1 in a 2 doc setup. We could've broke the setup right then right there. Johnny and I paranoia'ed him into going elsewhere but he was a scum MVP there.

[Insanoflex]

maybe
andres is my strongest non-mechanical (as in roles/claims not being a thing) TRs personally.
But POE is tightening for me
I think andres, Noraa are dayplay wise town
I think either nopoint or johny is town and other maf
Notmafia and dunn gotta be town
FL is town

that leaves insano, gera, uwnd, or fuzzy as the 2 remaining scum slots in my book. I think uwnd is probably scum, he's been trying to slow things down as of late and talking himself up. I'll probably shoot him if nopoint flips red today.

if I had to guess a solve it'd be nopoint/uwnd/insano.

On play, andres looks town, yeah. But I went back and noticed he was making some pretty strained defenses of nopoint, and for all his posting looks town, he hasn't really driven the game in any direction, and I feel as though today he's started to coast quite a bit. Just a theory that's contingent partly on nopoint's flip. I know people don't trust me because of Hank's play, and I don't really have a problem getting flipped at some point, just want to give people something to consider after I flip.

This is probably Scum btw. Insano has nonsensically been trying to tie me to nopoint, and is softly discrediting me.

Nonsensical, huh?

You could spend the time to find a better avatar

Sacrilege! don't mess with k-pop bro

If anyone is familiar with Johnny they should tell me if his behavior is indicative of anything

Right now his questions seem preemptive that gives me pause

I was scum partner with Johnny on our last game and I can say that his behavior is so far very different but not sure if that's AI considering he knows I'm in this game.

I didn’t see anybody ask you, so I’ll do it: what differences do you see between Johnny’s game when you played with them as Scum and this game?

I’m also inclined to think that nopointinactingup is likely Town based purely on the fact that nobody jumped to their defense really. Fuzzy piled on in 143 to defend Dunnstral, and most others ignored the interaction for the most part. Flavor Leaf decided it was more important to make things about himself, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. Will keep reading.

I believed it then but no one else sees it so idk, they can’t all be scum

Real Scum slips in my experience are rare. Like obvious mistakes that truly reveal that you’re Scum just don’t happen all that often. Scum tend to be careful. If anything, what appear to be mistakes made by Scum can be simply differences in style or communication. We just came out of a game where a Town player was thought of being Scum for referring to themselves in the third person (and being coached into a post).

I think the evidence for a slip needs to be overwhelming, or the slip really obvious. Otherwise, it’s just not that.

unwnd is town, at least that's what I'm willing to bet on for now since with the spontaneous way he is speaking he will get found out soon if he was scum.

Johnny is looking worse so I'm going to have to take back that alliance request. I find the way johnny plays as scum is lurking and opportunism and I got a sense of it in his recent posts.

shelly is looking like she's trying to solve, but the way that she's doing it seems odd and commentary-ish. also, shelly I would like you to explain your Andres read.

I like fuzzy and vibing with a lot of what he's saying

Why are so happy to defend unwnd here? It can’t be that speaking in a spontaneous way is all you have to hang your hat on.

@Andres, what do you think of my point against FL?

Look I’ll give you my download, and you tell me what you think.

Could Flavor’s self-vote “plan” have been disingenuous - an obvious attempt at making themselves look Scummy so that they can explain away their survival later in the game, without attracting too many votes? Yes, maybe. Flavor doesn’t seem that keen on giving out reads or establishing themselves in this game, so that’s not a positive sign. It’s also a marked departure from how they’ve played Scum the last few times we’ve faced each other though, and that in a way also makes sense (it would be easy for me or others to spot I think).

Where I’m struggling is when I try to make sense of it from a strategic perspective. Flavor seems fine under pressure as Scum, but he knows that he needs allies, or Town players that are in a position to make errors. The easiest way to get significant errors is by pocketing players, or at least have others actually think you’re Town. He doesn’t seem particularly focused on even projecting Towniness here, openly admitting to not trying hard, and inviting votes. Not the most viable Scum strategy long-term is it? The other side of it is that he’s buying time, but Flavor doesn’t like to sit on the sidelines for too long. If he continues to drag his feet for too long execute him. Otherwise, I think there’s better places to look for now.

^I would maybe disagree on nopoint though. I don’t see the slot as Scummy. I thought that acknowledgment that the slip maybe wasn’t that to be a Towny response.

^Also that logic that the person that shellyc was on is more likely to be Scum makes no sense. Nopoint was on a wagon that had a shot at going through. shellyc was sitting alone on a wagon that was not going to happen, which clearly robs the Town of information. Just because they were cross-voting and you TR Shelly doesn’t mean that nopoint is Scum. Why wouldn’t you instead trust Titus’ voice more, who you know was Town and suspected Shelly?

Why so pessimistic geraitnm? There’s still a lot left on this day and some legitimate avenues of inquiry are being pursued.

I don’t think nopoint is Scum. And I TR Johnny now. So I will continue to vote where I’m at. Sorry shelly. If I need to consolidate onto Flavor I might just do that, but again I continue to be skeptical there to some extent.

Soft interactions, continual defense of the player based on incredibly weak reasoning. I don't like throwing it all out preflip because if he's town it's worthless, but it's not like I'm saying this for no reason.

[Noraa]

despite andres less activity I still TR him
-----
TRs I'm taking vig suggestions from (unordered)
insano
noraa
dunn
FL
andres

notmafia has been so out of it I'd rather not let them aim no offense.

I would do Fuzzy. I think we’ll get more content out of Johnny. But I think Johnny makes sense from what I’ve read.

I am a watcher enabler. I believed FL’s claim because I knew it was an enabler-packed game. I think he’s scum because there’s no way all 3 enablers are town.

N1 I was neighborized by Johnny. Anyone who thinks we are sus can volunteer to be neighorized tonight.

Noraa it’s a shame you’re scum, would have loved a K-pop qt

Neighborizer could be pocketing you - just saying. It’s a weak clear at best.

And between Vig and Watcher, I’m going to go for Vig as more likely Town. Outside of the fact that plus seems very Towny to me.

Why do these two posts come back to back?

Im entertaining a few scumteam possibilities assuming nopo and Johnny are both scum.

[Noraa]

Noraa wagon as of this post has worse makeup than nopoint wagon

Agree.

[Noraa]

You two are fascinating to follow at 1a.m. Christmas morning

Get some beauty sleep!!!!!!
why u up at 1 am?!

[Noraa]

If no one is claiming watcher then I just think it’s possibly a scum role. An enabler heavy set up with 3 pairs of enabler - PR, one town-town, one town-scum and one scum-town makes sense to me

enabler doesn't mean the role MUST exist.

[Noraa]

The possibility of Johnny scum does exist, I originally thought neighboriZers are confirmed town role, even when it is not Johnny has not tried to influence me to do anything and I think that’s town af

Then why'd u tell us it was a soft clear? If u thought that, it should've been a hard clear right?

[Noraa]

@andres: my scum read on Nora is not entirely from association with FL. It’s an unfair misrepresentation when I’ve been scum reading Shelly all game and Noraa has only continued to make the arguments Shelly did

Ok and?

[Noraa]

Readup finished!!!!

[JohnnyFarrar]

VOTE: nopo merry Christmas other friendo

[Noraa]

merry christmas! Johnny what'd Santa get ur kids :O

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'll send you a picture it's ridiculous. Presents took up like half our living room

[Noraa]

:O

I look forward to seeing the messy present stack LOL

[TheFuzzylogic99]

[Noraa]

[Andresvmb]

1676 - this is some selective nonsense. It can’t possibly be genuine sorting, can it? And you’re tying me pre-flip, and making that the primary reason you begin to chip away at why people see me as Town. Don’t worry, I see you.

[Andresvmb]

is that 4 votes on Noraa?

Meh.

Plusjoyed probably scum, Johnny probably town.

There’s one thing about plusJOYED that I’ll say. I recall feeling very disconnected with plusJOYED when we were both Town, and we exchanged SRs, and I also remember thinking that they were very wrong. I was partly right, but overly harsh. I’m finding myself this game wanting to trust plus. Which maybe should give me pause? Like plus is making some sense, but it’s also a decently strong defense of shellyc/Noraa that I’m having trouble fighting against. Though it’s also based on an interpretation of the NK, which isn’t reliable.

I’ll agree that if Noraa flips Scum, then look at plus and Johnny is probably Town. I think you’re Town.

I don’t trust nopoint’s attacks on your Claim in particular. I would be fine with nopoint making arguments about your playstyle more, or how your perspective doesn’t make sense. But it’s a very narrow focus, and one which helps avoid contradictions or too much scrutiny.

uh no. you don't shade conftown.

Your last sentence is weird. It wasn’t shade. I’m debating whether I should trust plusJOYED’s argument about you, or whether I should trust my own intuition. Even before I caught the Claim, I’ve been consistently thinking that plus was Town. And I always re-evaluate.

And just so we’re clear, plus is not technically Confirmed Town. They’re like 99% and I’m okay losing to a potential gambit of an Enabler / Vig Claim (plus and Flavor would have to be a Team), but until we see an overnight execution of Scum, or even just two executions overnight, there’s nothing to be certain about. With what we know though, I don’t think plus is Scum. But it isn’t Confirmed.

[Noraa]

Unless you think the scum team is flavor/Plus/___, plus is a vig and vigs are conftown.

[Andresvmb]

I’m like having all these thoughts all flow to me at the same time.

Geraintm has been too useless. Plus is making too much sense. Oh and I’m with you that there’s something off about Fuzzy. Admitting to trying to coast don’t give me positive vibes. You’re seeing it as Town. I’m weakening my read there for sure.

Oh this is actually scary. I think fuzzy admitted to coasting in their last scum game :/
I need to actually go back and check this.

I’ll just quote you the post that caught my attention.
Check 859.

However, from re-reading Fuzzy’s ISO - I think the fact that Fuzzy defended both Dunn and Not_Mafia in the early game (see 549, 556) is a positive. Separately, Fuzzy narrowed down their choice based on a vote count analysis today that I can’t quite understand, since the logic isn’t completely laid out, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. But there’s an interesting switch in the way Fuzzy is viewing nopoint, going from pushing there aggressively (1314) to placing nopoint amongst their strongest TRs (1579). If nopoint flips Town, this is worth scrutinizing, simply because it would be a clever way of getting Town cred. It’s also possible that Fuzzy is just Town and arriving at the right conclusions constantly, excluding the earlier push for Flavor (even if you take into account that Fuzzy was willing to give Flavor time to make themselves more obvious).

[Andresvmb]

Unless you think the scum team is flavor/Plus/___, plus is a vig and vigs are conftown.

If plusJOYED’s claim depended on practically anybody else claiming Vig Enabler, then I probably wouldn’t even consider a universe where they could both be Scum. I’m just saying - it’s not

impossible

just yet. You play with Flavor enough times, and you begin to realize that you need to be open minded about most claims, while keeping the most likely universe firmly in view.

However, and this is also important, it’s not a meaningful consideration at all in my existing view of the game. So I don’t want to overly focus on this. I think the Vig Claim is true and they’re both Town. What else would you like for me to say? It just seemed to me like you were trying to shade me unnecessarily for a debate that wasn’t fundamentally about whether plus was Town or not. I can absolutely disagree with a Confirmed Town.

[Andresvmb]

The possibility of Johnny scum does exist, I originally thought neighboriZers are confirmed town role, even when it is not Johnny has not tried to influence me to do anything and I think that’s town af

This is actually useful to know. I believe you’ll be flipped - if there’s anything Johnny has said in the chat that you would like to put out there for the rest of us as potentially useful information, now is your chance.

[Andresvmb]

Also why wouldn’t I discredit FL’s claim as an enabler myself. 3 town enabler is very unlikely to me

You know, I can understand this to a limited extent. But these Normal games do have a lot of Roles from what I can gather. If anything they consistently end up being Town sided. And the particular Claim also fit neatly with the structure that is known. All I’m saying is that I think you went too hard to discredit Flavor when in my view the Claim makes Flavor more likely to be Town, not less. Nevertheless, being skeptical of anything Flavor claims is a Town impulse haha so there’s that too.

[Andresvmb]

Also, purely based on wagon construction, nopoint is going to flip Town. Anybody here really believe that we could get Scum without Dunn/Not_Mafia voting there? I don’t. This is a crappy compromise that yeah, might result in Scum. But most likely won’t.

[Not_Mafia]

I'm voting nopoint I think

[Noraa]

I'm voting nopoint I think

ur vote's on me rn.