Newbie 2045: A Midwinter Night's Dream - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-19

The third spirit, the Ghost of Christmas Present, shows Scrooge people he knows, and people he doesn't know, at the markets, buying what they need for a festive feast. He sees happiness and kind thoughts for others, even cold-hearted others like himself. And he sees two pitiful children, named Ignorance and Want, who tug at his heartstrings. The ghost tells Scrooge they will doom all who ignore them.

Illwei

(3): petapan, BBmolla, unwnd

Norfolk Boy1

(2): quiet, Lunar Martian

quiet

(2): Mikul, safebet222

Mikul

(1): Norfolk Boy1

Not Voting

(1): Illwei

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: December 28, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2020-12-27 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Illwei]

VOTE: peta

Well I'm gonna go up green

[BBmolla]

Unwnd should be dead by ELLO

[Norfolk Boy1]

I claimed because I thought I was E1. I didn't see the problem, but i've now realised that one of those unvotes was for me and I wasn't actually E1.

The Illwei votes seem madness to me, so as Mikul isn't viable, i'll go with Quiet who I think is far more likely to be scum.

VOTE: Quiet

[quiet]

@Illwei, peta never gets voted today. Your realistic choices are me or norfolk, with maybe, possibly, unwnd, but this late, I don't think so. We are out of time for a peta wagon to get moving, and I see no other candidate that gets votes. Personally, I need tmmrw to develop a better read on peta.

I also think the Illwei pressure is madness, and I think BB only voted it to get info on peta.

Keeping my vote on norfolk, as it's the only viable wagon that I feel good about. If Illwei bamboozled me with the scum fake town slip, then tough luck, and until BB or someone else can convince me that a green Illwei flip is still valuable enough information for me to vote for someone I don't find scummy, I'm not going to get behind it.

Also, the wagon on me is finally gaining some steam; I don't know if there's much I can say on the topic, but any directed questions I'm happy to answer. I think that the biggest susses have had to do with me:
-seeming like i'm being too careful/polished about what I type out (mikul's "he sounds forced")
-the awkward opening, which I feel like I've discussed ad nasium at this point
-my detailed, direct responses to being sussed
-seeming like I am lying about my experience/am playing up my inexperience as a tactic/pick up on terminology too easily
-"nervousness"
-being unproductive/not thinking or summarizing before I post

If there's anything outside this list, lmk. I've addressed most or all of these points over the day, but i'll try to summarize some of my responses below:

Spoiler:

Generally, I think most of the susses are explained by what it is: High effort, really excited, brevity challenged newbieTown. I put in a lot of effort in my posts and in reading the thread, generally kept a window open through most of the day as I did work, and reading up on anything I didn't understand and trying to be comprehensive in my posts. I've been super excited to play, I've been into incomplete information games (poker, trading, ai stuff) for ages, and this long form mafia is a fun outlet to do this in the context of a social deduction game. I actually found this particular form from reading the mafiascum wiki first, trying to learn more about strategy after watching some zoom mafia games online. I am def nervous about posting, giving reads, the social part of the deduction game, but also excited, and I've enjoyed this more than I'd hoped. I don't know best practices (example: claiming VT as a CC off my phone; I thought that was necessary to a counter claim), I'm not good at directing my energy in efficient ways, I am not yet good at the brevity thing. I wonder if some of that genuine inexperience has come out, or if the effort kinda offsets it a little bit. I've been pretty conservative about my reads, not really all that excited about going after the petas and the bbs of this game, but that's because I don't think scumPeta really gets sussed day1 in any situation outside of a really exceptional circumstance. I think I have given some firm takes, though I understand if they weren't as helpful or indicative to town as they could have been. Generally, I guess I'm saying I'm playing as pro-town as I know how to, and have really enjoyed every moment of it (especially whatever is going on between BB and peta, I'm very excited to see more of that tmmrw).

[Lunar Martian]

Finally people are actually listening to me.

I think I prefer to VOTE: quiet

[quiet]

Lunar, they're listening to you because you claimed a role. No one is going to vote you today ever, unless there is a counter claim.

[quiet]

Also, I am now at E-1. Nothing to claim.

[petapan]

BB or someone else can convince me that a green Illwei flip is still valuable enough information for me to vote for someone I don't find scummy, I'm not going to get behind it.

i think he's voting that way provisionally to get a read on me. i assume if i'm wrong on that read he'll want to deathtunnel me.

the resistance to the illwei vote is, in and of itself, interesting. i question whether scum would drag their feet on that vote so much. i suppose i haven't really stated my case in strong enough terms, but...i feel like the vote movement is in and of itself telling.

actually, if quiet gets voted out day 1 as town based on how he's played, i'm going to be heartbroken. i don't think i can do it.

(also, if lunar weren't a claimed PR, i would hate their last post so much...)

[petapan]

i suppose illwei hammers you in self-preservation regardless so it's not like you can vote there, realistically. blech.

quiet i think your wagon is you getting piled on for just being different, as it ends to go in these newbie games, but looking at the votes on you i'd be shocked if it's a pure wagon. you still suspect norfolk?

[quiet]

typed out a few different messages, kinda hate all of them. Anything I say sounds either desperate or unhappy, which is totally not where I'm at.

@peta, i've had so much fun, so please zero heartbreak. Apparently the way I play the game is a little suspicious, and I'll work on it for next time. There will def. be a next time, and this was about the best intro to forum mafia that I could ask for.

Yeah, Ill prob hammers me here. I can't shake the illwei townread, but maybe they got me. Still suspect norfolk, still fascinated by the interplay between you and BB, I think there is something there that we can learn from tmmrw, still have unwnd as a likely ringer candidate. Townread Mikul, no idea on safebet, wish we saw more from them. Lunar.........

call me crazy, but given BB's soft cop claim, if I were lunar, and especially if my partner just got replaced by a ringer by the name of norfolk, and I knew the column I was in because we were both goons, well....

hi there doctor claim.

I think i'm just annoyed that....there's....

i'm probably just biased against lunar at this point, but yeah, norfolk.

I'm trying to put something together for if I do get voted that clearly states my thoughts on the state of the game. Is there anything that would be helpful to know?

[quiet]

More probably unnecessary musing on pr things

Spoiler:

I should note that the idea for Town Doc claim could come from any ringer, or possibly even Lunar themselves. I talked in a post a long time ago why I thought {ringer, ringer} or {newbie, newbie} was most likely given the way the day had gone, but someone had the good point that {ringer, lunar} or {ringer, turtle} would be a hard coach given how unavailable they were. And it's speculative anyway. This isn't a super serious theory, it pre-supposes to exact a column for me to feel good about it. Even though there are only three ways for cop to exist. BB, if you are cop, then I guess you can find out easy enough if you don't die. If BB dies, then that probably confirms them as cop, and I guess you have to determine if lunar was lying then. That widens the field a bit. As a side note, I don't think Ill acts coached, and I don't think I do either.

I would also like to push the people that voted me that have not given clear reasons for it to re-iterate them before the hammer, and give any high frequency partners. Don't think I can defend them necessarily, but I think it would be useful to have them recorded.

[petapan]

typically if you're town and likely to get voted out it's good practice to leave a final reads list for people to look back on. i know you've given opinions elsewhere but i don't have a complete picture of where your thoughts are.

and i don't think you've done anything wrong, if i had doubts of you it was only because you didn't seem as town as other people but i don't think you were overly suspect, it probably says

something

that the SEs in this game weren't voting you. i look at that wagon and can't help but suspect scum influence.

[unwnd]

It's actually alarming how scummy Lunar is acting for a proclaimed clear in this instance

[unwnd]

I don't think Quiet is the right vote. This is impressive in it's own right if he's fooling me, but the measures he's taken feel too overbearing for having a potential partner. Quiet would be more hush at E-1 and would be afraid of spewing his mate, but instead he's sitting here and

asking what he could do better.

That just

Can't be scumplay.

[petapan]

VOTE: norfolk boy1

the illwei wagon isn't happening so i'll swing back as a desperation move.

[unwnd]

I'm pretty fooled by you as well peta if you're scum, you're much more animated than what I've observed of your scumgame, wherein you play a bit more calculated in the way you display your emotions, sometimes using them as a crutch to get you out of bad situations

Not sure where it serves you to switch to norfolk like this as scum lol

[unwnd]

That being said I'm with this

VOTE: norfolk boy1

[unwnd]

Lunar secretly has to be like a scum-aligned doctor lmao I'm doing backflips

[petapan]

if im scum here i just wring my hands, say "it can't be helped" and yeet poor quiet into the dead thread here (unless he's my partner, of course)

[quiet]

No review reads:

Illwei

: Towny town that has ever towned. I don't buy scumIllwei townSlip play. Nope, no, not buying it. If you got me, you got me.

Mikul: medium town

. Concerned they get sussed after I flip green, I think they supported everything they said well and they could have had their choice of elims by moving their vote or their sus earleir in the day. Generally very productive, and efficent. Maybe I should drop them more points for getting me wrong, but I don't.

BBmola: Town/selfsorting

. I really enjoyed BB's play, even if it wasn't exactly.. conventional. It was for sure interesting and fun. Said a lot with very few words, lots of reaction tests, the weird claim, the fuck it voting style, the plan to discover peta's role, etc. I think that if not town, gets sorted p easy tmmrw.

Peta

: Null/look for all their contact. Never got anything but engaged town vibes, but from background reading/the respect of other players in thread, I put this well within their scum range. Really enjoyed playing w/ them.

Safebet

: Null/need to review. I actually think the last few days might give me more insight on safebet. They've done some things I really, really liked. A specific example was calling out my discussion of the town meta post, and asking some questions about Mikul's sus on me, developing their read on me over time. They've done some things that I didn't like as much, but besides feeling that way, I don't have an immediate example on hand. I thought they were also very productive when they posted.

Unwnd

: very oh so slight scum lean. I need to re-read an iso to express why with more detail, but I think part of it was my calculus about the likelihood of {ringer, ringer} and what those worlds look like, and part of it has to do with their reserved style. This is the read I'm struggling with recalling specifics on the most, and feel the least certain on. I'll try to update it. Frankly, recently, i'm doubting it. They were the ringer that if someone insisted I choose a ringer, I'd say was scummiest, but as I said, wouldn't be willing to vote today as I felt that another day would help sort.

Lunar: Scum lean

. Sorry. I don't like your vote on me, I don't like the "finally, everyone is listening to me" vibe, I... I'll admit that it's possible that you being gone has colored my opinion, and I think a few pages ago I would have felt better about putting you closer to neutral, but strangely, your role claim doesn't make me feel better about you. I thought it would.

Norfolk: medium scum

. Maybe I'm letting Turtle's long absence skew my opinion, but as I most recently noted, while Lunar (despite the most recent thing where they almost...were triumphant about being listened to after claiming a role?) gave me blank vibes since they came back, norfolk gave me nothing but scum pings. The quiet wagon, as I said well before the quiet wagon got to this point, is by far the easiest push for norScum coming into the game. Just about everyone thinks i'm at least a little suspicious, and you have Mikul, who is down for the cause into forever, and safebet, who was verbally growing more and more sus of me, that seem easy enough to get on board. They could have done the kind of thing I've been doing, even if i've been doing it amaturly, and done deep dives, picked up qoutes, identified specific reasons why I felt scummy. Instead, they gave three actually terrible, zero effort reasons. The reasons were so bad that other people picked up on how bad they were. I've already stated my opinion on the VT claim, and how from my perspective, there was nothing to lose.

[BBmolla]

unwnd is almost certainly scum

[unwnd]

Entertain your pissbrain thought later after we get a lim

[quiet]

Hey, at least BB didn't forreal hammer me as a reaction test.

looks like it's down to BB and Illwei.

[BBmolla]

honestly definite possibility they're both scum and we win lol