TENET - Game Over

[Bell]

Oh and petapan, who lacked context.

From you it makes the least sense, because you called her like, the seventh scum.
At least in part whatever suits you is how you feel about the shelly flip. Or is this more hydra dissonance?

[Hench Princesses]

Pooky's scumread on FL is predicated on:
>If Fl were town, and thought Pisskop were town, he would've yelled at us to not turnstile him.
>Fl instead asked for Pisskop to come over, and may have been preemptively pocketing him, so Pooky thinks he's scum.

I don't hate it.

And Pooky wasn't my pick for a turnstile anyway.

this is almost more thought about pooky than anyone in either thread has shown. town.

1-4 (2-3 based on my reads though)

I think Pisskop could've been scum.

I think shelly is probably scum. A50 probably scum. Gyx could go either way (probably still the slot I want to launch the most).

I'm paranoid I'm just wrong because I'm picking on the players I don't know very well. But that's just how my reads are and I don't know how to reconcile that.

Maybe I'm wrong on A50.

Yeah, I changed my mind and no longer want to yeet A50.

I have only two names left in my POE pool right now.

And they're Shelly and Gyx.

VOTE: gypyx

Brian what made you lose interest in a50?

Reread some of his stuff and no longer think it's scum-motivated.

this is town development

Also, none of you guys listen to me anyway, so why do any of you even care what I think?

this type of post can be scummy but in this game it's both true and townie

I'm going to be honest with you. If the other thread wants A50 that badly, I'm willing to cooperate with them and send him over and they can figure it out.

Best case scenario, I'm right in that he's town and they get to do whatever it is they're trying to do.

Worst case scenario, I'm wrong and he's scum, but he's out of our thread and he will be swiftly eliminated.

townie progression

I would definitely thrive in this setup as scum.

townie

Okay Brian I bet i know how to convince u.

Big announcement:
I am retracting my cop claim.

I forgot you claimed cop, tbh.

You're still not invited to the Forwards thread.

townie

@Annie & @Brian: Could you both please brief me with your reads on the thread I'm about to join? Who are your top SR(s)?

Skitter is a slot I'm slightly suspicious of because they townread you and Gyx early on and I wasn't sure why. I think the other thread has more mechanical reasons associated with that read and I honestly don't care that much.
I'm also suspicious of LLD.

I had fferyhydra, Peta, Firebringer as townleans. Mebbe Cabd.

I'm still townreading Pooky and find it hilarious that the people who are voting him were also on the Flavor Leaf wagon the previous day. Based on his spreadsheet, I'd guess the scum there is probably the bear.

I still think Pisskop could be scum.

I don't have opinions on the rest of their playerlist because I honestly haven't been following along that thoroughly.

town readslist

My list would probably look something like this (it's actually way shorter than I thought it'd be):

Towniest
Annie Edison
Spiffeh
Bell

Would Punt, Not Interested In Eliminating
Almost50

Less Town
Dunnstral
Titus
Hench Princesses

Still in the Back of my Freezer
zMuffinMan

Waffletown
Gypyx

I still dislike Spiffeh's desire to eliminate A50 and am unsure if this is just scum-him honing in on a PR and either trying to fish it out or eliminate it. But I still feel like his overall play tends to lean towards town for me, so he's definitely not in my consideration pool.

Pretty sure someone mentioned Titus replaced unwnd. This isn't true. She replaced Sirius. I originally placed Sirius as leantown based on his entrance into the game, but I'm pretty sure someone mentioned that he actually prefers town. I still townread him based off his early play. But there were some pretty weird things Titus said after coming in that make me question if she were being serious or just trying to feign some sort of moonlogic here. I've generally liked her posting this game, which I do find somewhat concerning since I usually butt heads with her. Supposedly NachoTammy thinks end of Day 1 implies Titus town, and I'm not really sure what they mean. If they just mean the stuff regarding Shelly's claim, I disagree since NachoTammy almost immediately questioned Shelly's roleclaim and Titus could've just reacted appropriately based on what she saw.

A50 I'm gambling on being town.

I'm actually not huge on Dunn being town. I need to revisit unwnd's posts this game. I townbinned unwnd early based on early effort, but I wasn't a huge fan of him opposing the potential of a townblock early and I guess I can sorta see a player replacing out in frustration as either alignment.

I still feel like HP was hard-buddying me. Also feels like they're trying to fish for townreads.

I'm unsure if Muffin seriously thinks Gyx is scum here or is just OMGUS'ing Gyx.

another town readslist after he just gave a town readslist

VOTE: Titus

townie push

How is Brian provoking LLD?

I'm not. She's making shit up.

town

I get almost no scumpings from brian on page 2, I can get how someone might dislike his early play, he's very null for page 1 of his iso, but page 2 has good stuff

-E

[Hench Princesses]

From you it makes the least sense, because you called her like, the seventh scum.
At least in part whatever suits you is how you feel about the shelly flip. Or is this more hydra dissonance?

shelly fucking with me is (one of) the reason(s) she's perma'd dude. fuck her multiaccounting

this isn't hydra dissonance, this is mostly me having very conflicted feelings about her overall. this is me feeling like you should know I was defending a player that was at the time playing as town, observing that shelly's case on you was fair and townie, observing that shelly's early play reflected townie reads, and getting dwarfed by the thread insisting on how townie you and annie were despite shitpushing town off a bullshit gut read, a gut read that I tried to get either of you to develop and neither of you did

eventually, shelly just stopped playing this game and I began to run out of good alternatives. Brian on day 1 was pretty null but I felt weird about his role and didn't want to flip him. We'd already turnstiled out compromise slots like pisskop. Muffin I thought tonally was pretty town and I only really reconsidered there on day 2 when his responses to even mild pushes were completely awful. And I was pretty sure if A50 was town I could find him on day 2. None of those were preferable to allowing your tunnel to fester, especially given she does have a wide range and it's not like I could be sure

I have conflicted feelings about shelly for reasons that have nothing to do with this game. She was the seventh scum. But she was also town. It's a paradox but it's also the truth.

anyway. What pings you from Brian? Why is he viable as scum? What am I missing?

-E

[Bell]

I did not realize shellyc got permabanned.

[Hench Princesses]

Actually fuck, look at the time between 3519 to 3648. The dude was thinking about his reads in forward for 3 hours

-E

[Bell]

Oh, nothing on Brian. I just don’t want to clear them for a role pm give i’ve Been burned in the past for doing that. They’re not in my elimination pool today rn. You just full quoted their iso, and i don’t think anything they’ve said is particularly too put there as scum. Though, the wry self awareness is townie in a cool town way, but not an actual, real, yeah this is definitely town posting posts.

[Bell]

Actually fuck, look at the time between 3519 to 3648. The dude was thinking about his reads in forward for 3 hours

-E

Sure. I’ll look at it.

[Bell]

UNVOTE:

[zMuffinMan]

so imagine an alternate reality where i was town, henchy

who's scum here?

[zMuffinMan]

oh is cabd actually scum reading me?

see, i have a theory that cabd's plan with reading me in games is to call me scum every game so the one time he eventually gets it right he can be like "hah, told you guys!"

or he's just genuinely shit at reading me

either way, amusing

[Hench Princesses]

I have no fucking idea!

-E

[zMuffinMan]

also who else did you think was scum that's already gone? both pooky and pisskop? or you think this side only had 2?

[zMuffinMan]

i actually dont mind being voted because you're pretty much dead weight if you don't start reassessing and that's coming from me lol

i doubt you're ever gonna take a leap of faith that im town but you should probably start thinking about who's actually scum sooner rather than later

[Hench Princesses]

no I've been assuming scum did a 3/3 split because 4/2 seems too risky when they have no knowledge of town's mech structure

if we only turnstiled one, which seems like decent likelihood, then there's still 2 scum here

I think thinking [pooky, pisskop] is 2/2 is too optimistic and A50 looks like a miss to me now

I would think there's 2 scum here, that's the most statistically likely scenario, I just don't know where the second one is.

what do you think of brian vs titus? is there scum one side of that?

-E

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think brian is scum

gun to head, i'd say titus is town but i honestly don't have a fucking clue how to read her and usually just leave her in a poe pile

[zMuffinMan]

im gonna be real with you for a bit, henchy

this isn't what my scum game looks like. i'm manipulative and rather meticulous as scum - every action is generally planned and i'm pretty well aware of how things are going to be received. as in, if i say something as scum, i generally know which players are going to take it well, which players aren't, and where that ultimately ends up leaving me

it's like, super easy to diffuse scum reads on me if i actually care about doing that - i know the sorts of things people like to hear that'll at least make them not want me gone before others, if nothing else. any scum game where i've actually been present will be full of posts like... this one, where i directly try to get inside people's heads and manipulate how they're thinking about the game and push them in directions i want them pushed

there's like zero chance i do a lot of the things i've done in this game as scum because it's not a winning strategy. i've tried a meta manipulation tactic before where i deliberately underplayed my scum game to fuck with certain meta-oriented players and it backfired and i decided it's not worth it over just playing in a way that gets me to endgame. do you think anything i've done here indicates i'm trying to get to endgame?

this also kind of ties into why nacho thought i wasn't scum, even if he wasn't as sure about it as he probably should have been. i've talked to him about how i fucking hate scum players on this site having absolutely no depth and being easily caught. he knows i've wanted to see town get steamrolled by scum players who aren't going to be caught by yomi level 0 shit. it didn't actually click for me that this is what he what he was looking at when he said he thought i was town, but he's technically right - i would want to put on a better display as scum. (the caveat here is that he was apparently unsure of me if all of pooky/pisskop/almost50/shellyc are town, probably because he thought i wouldn't need to put on a grandiose display if i could achieve the same result with less effort or something? but you don't seem to think that obviously)

so when you say stuff like "his responses to even mild pushes were completely awful" it's amusing to me on multiple levels because it should be pretty obvious i didn't give a shit how you perceive me and it should be rather obvious that i knew you weren't gonna suddenly change your mind because i disparaged your shitty case. that's not what i do as scum lol. it doesn't put me in a better light, it doesn't make people want to vote out town players, there's no benefit in doing that over, say, just dismantling your case and trying to have a reasonable discussion with you about who's scum

and also i loled at you saying you thought i was trying to pocket you or something d1 - you're like the last person i would give a shit about trying to get on my side in this game. no offense, but i'd start with trying to get people i'm familiar with on my side if i were going the buddy-buddy approach as scum. i just never really had you as a scum read, simple as that

all that is to say, if you honestly think there's 2 scum still left here and can't see any others players being scum, well, you're in for a rude awakening i guess

*shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

anyway told myself i'd sit down and review some gypyx games today

just assume i've blinded myself to end the agony for good if you don't hear from me later

[Bell]

VOTE: gyphx

[Hench Princesses]

I can see a lot of those points, it's more that:
-when I push other people, they react, but for instance, bell didn't really focus on himself as much when he said I was pushing obvtown, more unwnd, whereas you immediately got really condescending and used a lot of AtE
-a lot of people in this game kinda want to murder *someone*--I guess not really Annie, which is probably one reason it took my a really fucking long time to lock in town there, but like bell wants to murder someone he just isn't sure who, spiffeh will murder me or gx, titus wants to kill brian, brian wants to kill titus

I guess dunn is less on the 'clearly wants to murder someone table I guess. I guess today I'm townreading people who have some murderous intent, which is something your GX push was not doing for me. idk if that means you're actually just second-guessing that but it seems like you were more complaining about him not being scumread more than actually just wanting him dead. Like you can say this is not how you play scum, but I am looking for TOWN today and I'm seeing a lot of it. Dunn I can excuse that for I guess because he just always feels like he's on a different wavelength, or who the fuck knows maybe I was right about unwnd the first, third, and fifth times I read him and saw scum and not the second, fourth, and sixths times when I saw town

a lot of your other points like vibe and bug me at the same time. I kinda vibed you at one point saying you'd rather die than go over, because I agree with the sentiment. But that's also literally what scum would want to insist on since getting turnstiled if pooky/piss was 2/2 would be gamelosing. So it's like I vibe a lot of the stuff you say even if I can also see it being scum. And when I keep cycling back on reads, you're "the guy who used a lot of AtE" which makes it harder to shore up town there.

-E

[Annie Edison]

I think it’s unfair to say I never had priority elims

But I suppose I’ve had them less on this side, yes

[zMuffinMan]

i don't want to get turnstiled because i haven't read a single post in the other thread outside of the flip and snippets that get posted here. and i'm sure as fuck not going to start now

but also if you think there's even a chance pooky/pisskop is 2 scum, then you should be wondering why i'd play a suboptimal game after getting rid of them - like, how is it a winning strategy to play like this after getting rid of 2 scum buddies? and if you think only one of them is scum and there's another here, then why on earth do i refuse to get turnstiled and ask to be killed here instead? lol. getting turnstiled is like a get out of jail free card

[zMuffinMan]

you immediately got really condescending and used a lot of AtE

exactly. this isn't a trait of my scum game lol, because i know how that stuff is perceived by people. it's like, the worst way to diffuse suspicion

a lot of people in this game kinda want to murder *someone*

i mean, it's kind of a meme i'm playing into intentionally now, but like... there's a reason nacho made jokes like 1360 (hint: "voteless town player" is referring to me)

i will say i think the meta reasons for town reading gypyx are incredibly weak and remind me of like people going "oh creature is so easy to read, he can't play scum at all" until he starts learning "oh, it's that easy to skate by as scum, i just have to be active?" and wins with everyone going "this isn't his scum game!!!"

but hey, that's why i decided to sit down and read his games

[zMuffinMan]

o ya, that reminds me. i wanted pisskop killed in *this* thread specifically because turnstiling is basically a get out of jail free card

dunno why you guys turnstiled him

[zMuffinMan]

out of interest btw, do you think i'm scum who legitimately doesn't give a flying fuck about the other thread or do you think i'm lying and am secretly reading everything they're writing because i'm a masochist and like reading 200 pages of garbage for fun then pretending i haven't read it?

[Annie Edison]

If you have further thoughts on gypyx I’ll hear you out