Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[PlusJOYED]

oh actually uwnd could be scum too
I think we have a lot of clears at least now

[unwnd]

It's not in my favor to play the way I've been towards my reads of nopoint, if anything I'd like to take credit as I was getting discouraged D1 (and pretty much suspected him since)

[Noraa]

If I were scum, trust me, I would NEVER tunnel Johnny. It just wouldn't happen.

[Noraa]

If I were scum, trust me, I would NEVER tunnel Johnny. It just wouldn't happen.

All hell would freeze over before this happens.

[Insanoflex]

For what it's worth, I should disclose that Johnny neighborized me before he died, their hood was basically inactive, they greeted each other but didn't say much otherwise, nopoint didn't put any reads there so there isn't anything to learn from it.

Do think the unwnd/nopoint interactions day 1 are less likely to be s/s.

[Noraa]

ok so the claims are
Dunn - cop
Plus - vig
bunch of enablers.
were there any vt claims?

[Noraa]

Cuz Johnny kill doesn't make sense unless there were vt claims.

[Dunnstral]

I was pretty sure Johnny was town after seeing the scum watcher flip

[Dunnstral]

Who was claiming to be in johnny's neighborhood, again? Who did johnny target and what was the result?

[Noraa]

Who was claiming to be in johnny's neighborhood, again? Who did johnny target and what was the result?

nopo and insano

[Dunnstral]

sorry fuzzy
andres told me to I take no responsibility

...why are you listening to andres?

[unwnd]

Vote count 2.final

with 12 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2020-12-28 12:19:38).

elimination

2. Andresvmb [0]:

3. unwnd [1]:

geraintm#1667

4. Flavor Leaf [0]:

5. Insanoflex [1]:

Andresvmb#1656

6. Noraa [1]:

nopointinactingup#1344

7. PlusJOYED [0]:

8. Not_Mafia [0]:

9. JohnnyFarrar [0]:

10. geraintm [0]:

11. TheFuzzyLogic99 [0]:

12. Dunnstral [0]:

13. nopointinactingup [7 - HAMMER!]:

PlusJOYED#1292

, Insanoflex#1577,

unwnd#1650

,

Flavor Leaf#1668

, Noraa#1674,

JohnnyFarrar#1684

,

Not_Mafia#1708

no elimination [0]:

Not Voting [2]:

Dunnstral#1418, TheFuzzyLogic99#1564

mod notes

~ I mistaken counted Not_Mafia's vote in 1558 as on unwnd, when it was actually on nopointinactingup. It will be treated in the vote log as a vote for unwnd, sorry for the confusion.
~ unwnd V/LA
~ TheFuzzyLogic99 V/LA through Christmas

Spoiler: vote log

Day 2 vote log

Post 681: PlusJOYED votes nopointinactingup
Post 682: Andresvmb votes Noraa
Post 685: Not_Mafia votes nopointinactingup
Post 701: JohnnyFarrar votes Noraa
Post 705: Dunnstral votes Flavor Leaf
Post 715: Flavor Leaf votes unwnd
Post 744: Noraa votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 751: nopointinactingup votes Flavor Leaf
Post 812: Dunnstral votes Insanoflex
Post 835: JohnnyFarrar votes Insanoflex
Post 837: Noraa votes geraintm
Post 841: Not_Mafia votes Noraa
Post 843: nopointinactingup votes Insanoflex
Post 845: Noraa votes Not_Mafia
Post 859: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes unwnd
Post 864: Flavor Leaf votes Insanoflex
Post 865: Flavor Leaf votes unwnd
Post 877: Insanoflex votes nopointinactingup
Post 885: geraintm votes nopointinactingup
Post 898: geraintm votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 938: PlusJOYED votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 943: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes unvote
Post 959: Insanoflex votes unwnd
Post 961: unwnd votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 1068: Noraa votes Flavor Leaf
Post 1086: Flavor Leaf votes Noraa
Post 1212: Insanoflex votes Noraa
Post 1263: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes Insanoflex
Post 1289: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 1290: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes nopointinactingup
Post 1292: PlusJOYED votes nopointinactingup
Post 1316: Flavor Leaf votes nopointinactingup
Post 1344: nopointinactingup votes Noraa
Post 1360: Noraa votes nopointinactingup
Post 1415: unwnd votes unvote
Post 1417: Insanoflex votes unvote
Post 1418: Dunnstral votes unvote
Post 1444: Insanoflex votes unwnd
Post 1483: geraintm votes unvote
Post 1522: Noraa votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 1558: Not_Mafia votes unwnd
Post 1564: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes unvote
Post 1577: Insanoflex votes nopointinactingup
Post 1587: Flavor Leaf votes Noraa
Post 1613: JohnnyFarrar votes Noraa
Post 1615: unwnd votes Andresvmb
Post 1626: Andresvmb votes nopointinactingup
Post 1644: Andresvmb votes TheFuzzyLogic99
Post 1650: unwnd votes nopointinactingup
Post 1656: Andresvmb votes Insanoflex
Post 1667: geraintm votes unwnd
Post 1668: Flavor Leaf votes nopointinactingup
Post 1674: Noraa votes nopointinactingup
Post 1684: JohnnyFarrar votes nopointinactingup
Post 1708: Not_Mafia votes nopointinactingup

Logic persists that at least one scum was on this wagon just for clarity sake

While N_M's content is is just ... I don't think a Cop enabler/Cop has to contest on top of a Mafia Godfather so that likely makes his clear true. I maintain my position about one scum being within the enabler claims, and it seems like nopoint was put in a position where he looked foolish due to (Johnny's) complex neighborizer and just went with the most townie looking role based on events. I'm not that into rolespec so I'll impede my thought here and come back to this later

[unwnd]

VOTE: unwnd
Been trying to work out where i wanted to vote after my initial read got kiboshed. Think I am happy here at the moment.
Holidays so doing best to keep on top of things, people in this game have more knowledge than me. There must be more stuff out there too if the death last night was not scum aligned....

VOTE: Insanoflex

A {Noraa, unwnd, Insano} Scum Team would be interesting.

While I'm not liking andres and to some extent gera, I'm not sure I can buy a world where they see nopoint being at death's door and

both

of them just feign ignorance. Right now between the two it becomes a matter whether Andres was locked into his own stances (and switching off would look scummy) or if Gera is just being coy intentionally

[unwnd]

I read a minor bit of nopoint overnight but felt he was pretty anti-spew. A lot of his D1 fmpov was just spent arguing with townies which is actually astounding if you go look at it.

[unwnd]

@Andres, what do you think of my point against FL?

I believed it then but no one else sees it so idk, they can’t all be scum

Real Scum slips in my experience are rare. Like obvious mistakes that truly reveal that you’re Scum just don’t happen all that often. Scum tend to be careful. If anything, what appear to be mistakes made by Scum can be simply differences in style or communication. We just came out of a game where a Town player was thought of being Scum for referring to themselves in the third person (and being coached into a post).

I think the evidence for a slip needs to be overwhelming, or the slip really obvious. Otherwise, it’s just not that.

Yeah that makes sense. I can kinda see now how that could be read as just stating a town-read.

unwnd is town, at least that's what I'm willing to bet on for now since with the spontaneous way he is speaking he will get found out soon if he was scum.

Johnny is looking worse so I'm going to have to take back that alliance request. I find the way johnny plays as scum is lurking and opportunism and I got a sense of it in his recent posts.

shelly is looking like she's trying to solve, but the way that she's doing it seems odd and commentary-ish. also, shelly I would like you to explain your Andres read.

I like fuzzy and vibing with a lot of what he's saying

Why are so happy to defend unwnd here? It can’t be that speaking in a spontaneous way is all you have to hang your hat on.

I've had a town-vibe on unwnd since his beginning posts and he sounds like he's engaged in figuring out the game. It's really hard to top-post as scum without posting fluff imo.

Also, andres is town

, still null on Titus, Hank and gera

The difference in interaction based on how he treated andres and treated (myself, dunn) is a bit shocking however. Nopoint only discredited my argument but didn't seem too enthused in actually understanding it. The way Andres/Nopoint respond to each other (comparitive to everyone else) is very uncanny, so much that he townreads andres for ? reasons

[unwnd]

Ctrl+F andres in Nopoint's ISO and there's a disparaging amount of leeway in their interactions lol

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

Also Plus is town-lean for the upper posts and because of this

Hey hey people, Sseth here

locktown
also VOTE: shellyc

just want to point out that she did exactly the same thing as town in k-pop mafia

Could Flavor’s self-vote “plan” have been disingenuous - an obvious attempt at making themselves look Scummy so that they can explain away their survival later in the game, without attracting too many votes? Yes, maybe. Flavor doesn’t seem that keen on giving out reads or establishing themselves in this game, so that’s not a positive sign. It’s also a marked departure from how they’ve played Scum the last few times we’ve faced each other though, and that in a way also makes sense (it would be easy for me or others to spot I think).

Where I’m struggling is when I try to make sense of it from a strategic perspective. Flavor seems fine under pressure as Scum, but he knows that he needs allies, or Town players that are in a position to make errors. The easiest way to get significant errors is by pocketing players, or at least have others actually think you’re Town. He doesn’t seem particularly focused on even projecting Towniness here, openly admitting to not trying hard, and inviting votes. Not the most viable Scum strategy long-term is it? The other side of it is that he’s buying time, but Flavor doesn’t like to sit on the sidelines for too long. If he continues to drag his feet for too long execute him. Otherwise, I think there’s better places to look for now.

So what you are saying is that FL plans everything as scum and he doesn't seem to be doing things that are long-term strategies like pocketing and projecting towniness, so you're not confident he is scum yet? IMO, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, I'm saying FL could have made the vote on himself as town or scum based on his arrogant nature, but then he justified it and knee-jerk pulled the vote back. That makes it slightly more likely to come from scum. Let's talk about another fact, why was he waiting specifically for the "second" vote on him? Though I could possibly see why the first vote would look townish, I don't see what distinguishes the second, third, fourth vote.

nopointinactingup

- If I recall correctly, they're the other one who pushed Dunn, so it's interesting they're both voting me now. Nopoint made the second vote, the one I was baiting, so this has a high chance of being caught scum for that reason alone.

Dunnstral

- Dunnstral brushed and deflected early game reads and looks to both try and pocket Shelly by hard town reading them, and also rescinded when speaking to another player, this was to Nopoint even.

In conclusion, vote Dunnstral, my theory is Nopoint/Dunnstral team, probably with one of my higher town reads.

I asked you already but why second? Is that the only reason why you think of me as scum based on a random number?

nopoint seems lurky which is what happened in 2174

I would like to hear from johnny on nopoint with johnny being nopoints scumpartner in that game

nopoint seems lurky which is what happened in 2174

I would like to hear from johnny on nopoint with johnny being nopoints scumpartner in that game

Uh they're a good scum player. Not too controlling, more capable of disappearing into the town than me. Not unlike here honestly

Shelly, so instead of reading and meta-ing me yourself you went and asked Johnny? Seems a bit theatrical. And one thing I have to add, there's no use in meta-ing someone if you only read their scum game. For example, you keep saying I'm lurking but if you read any of my town games (from waaaaaaaay before) you will see that I have similar post frequency regardless of alignment because I like to read a whole bunch of stuff in succession it helps me keep track of what's happening in town

Main 3 (Nopoint notmaf Hank) with flavor and you as distraction or potential scum if i'm wrong about one in main 3

I actually think this laissez faire read list is kinda town. Johnny-scum would be tangential here.

All these close to naked votes on FL as he's about to show effort makes me think he's town unless I'm missing something and effort-FL is a scum thing. FL's wagon actually was pretty productive there's gotta be some scum material here. Dunn's vote is pretty scummy and I already have a scum-read on him so I have no qualm about joining his wagon.

Vote:Dunntral

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think Shelly is scum. I’ve had this weird feeling since the beginning of the game that her posts are commentary-ish and pupet-mastering and then her post #477 was just downright manipulative. Shelly knows johnny’s only game with me is when I’m scum so she’s letting Johny think about me in that game. If you’re reading two games from someone you’re bound to find similarities regardless of alignment and her under the table push will cause town to scum-read one another. Scum ultimately benefits from having paranoid town

VOTE: Shelly

will come back for a deeper look

VOTE: Shelly

will come back for a deeper look

omgys vote?

It’s not an omgus when I already have a scum read on her. And shelly not responding to my argument makes me think she felt caught.

I'm liking this shelly wagon, her blatant shading/ignoring points against her is scummy.

Titus and Dunn are clearly scum here.

FL trying to tie Dunn to Titus here near the end of the day looks pretty scummy too, I wouldn't rule out FL-dunn bussing team.

I think Shelly is scum too. I personally would kill people who suspect me as scum because I can wifom about it and that’s what she’s doing right now

Plus, do you suspect me for starting a Shelly wagon yesterday? If so consider this, yesterday’s biggest wagons were dunn and not_mafia, who are likely town right now. Why would Scum me try for a NL instead of eliminating people who suspect me? You know I play better than that as scum from last game, where I always got a townie lynched

Why'd you have to go and replace in a scummy slot

VOTE: Hanken

It's a bit biased but I'm not willing to eliminate Nora today. I'd rather not have Hank as a null slot for another day either

Why'd you have to go and replace in a scummy slot

shelly was a beacon of towniness and if u don't think so, its either bc ur scum or u don't understand her meta at all. I literally skimmed her ISO *SKIMMED* for maybe a minute and I was like YES IV REP ME IN I AM READY

I originally thought she was towny but her recent behavior has been eye-brow raising. Have you read your role pm?

I feel there's a lot of focus on Johnny and I today and in my position that's really a sign that we are going to lynch town or have a no elim again. There's a high chance we're being put in this position by the scum team.

Plus, you are trying to change the game state and pushing for something so I have a feeling that you might be town, albeit misguided. I don't see where you're going with the framing theory when both Johnny and I already either implied or stated our unwillingness to lim Nora today. Do you think a scum-team would entirely change strategy just because a friend replaced in?

I personally think the Titus kill even made Shelly less likely to be scum as smart scum often go for subtle kills instead of direct threats. So I could also re-use your argument for you masterminding the kill here to implicated me and Johnny.

I'm going to entertain the thought that you're right about Shelly's playstyle then the one behind the Titus kill here should be in the sidelines and inactive, waiting for town to suicide on Night Kill Analysis. There is no need for scum to pick sides when lim on either side benefits them, and the stale state of this game is looking like it's something like that. Among my biggest suspects for this scenario are FL, Hank (before the replacement) and geraint due solely to their inactivity and that's why I'm pressuring people with votes to get some inputs on where they are.

Particularly, I feel FL disappearing off the map as soon as pressure disappears off him is scummy. Scum vig-enabler is a very possible reality.

We could lynch Noraa today because Johnny or I can actually prove what we're saying to one of you bastards. If the scum team is too scared and kill us then at least they won't be trying to find the Vig

You waited for Noraa to get enough votes and turned on me or anyone else when you got the chance. That way you'll be seen as completely distanced from Noraa. There was no hyenas.

I don't like that, you have no skin in the game.

The deal is
When Nora's lynched and flip red, we vig you.
When I'm lynched and flip green, we vig you.
When Nora's lynched and flip green, we vig me.

I am a watcher enabler. I believed FL’s claim because I knew it was an enabler-packed game. I think he’s scum because there’s no way all 3 enablers are town.

N1 I was neighborized by Johnny. Anyone who thinks we are sus can volunteer to be neighorized tonight.

Noraa it’s a shame you’re scum, would have loved a K-pop qt

Lmao FL if you think johnny/me/noraa are scum team again

Enablers are negative utility Noraa they are not PRs

No watcher claims, the Watcher is probably mafia so I'm fine with my lynch since it would disable that role.

On the other hand Plus, if you vig Johnny after I'm lynched, we will have words at the end of the game.

The scumteam is Noraa + FL + 1 sideline person (gerain, fuzzy, maybe even Andres). Don’t shoot Johnny look into them. Plenty of things in my iso that could point to them being scum.

Probably not going to be around for most of the holiday. Merry Christmas y’all!

@andres: my scum read on Nora is not entirely from association with FL. It’s an unfair misrepresentation when I’ve been scum reading Shelly all game and Noraa has only continued to make the arguments Shelly did

Take a look at nopo's interactions with my slot.
A shit ton of shade.
The rest can be summed up as:
Shelly isn't likely scum because of Titus something or another
*two seconds later*
The scum team is shelly blah and blah
*two seconds later*
Noraa i am biased so im not gonna vote u
*two seconds later*
Noraa is scum with blah

[unwnd]

Andres is the only voice of reason in this game. Most of FL's argument is predicated on the fact that he's town and therefore not really reliable. I also don't trust any of his reads, unwd and me are both town.

Amazing stuff

[Noraa]

its a very underwhelming iso.

[unwnd]

I'm not sure if everyone agrees but when I'm scum I almost always want to give my partners benefit of the doubt unless

1) I am predetermining a bus on them for my own safety
2) They are playing in such a way that would make them impossible to save (see: suicidal)
3) It would look contradictory to defend them

As scum, I know town are looking for the paper trails, so it's easier to disassociate by almost openly appeasing your partner in an almost-obvious ways. Nopoint's attitude was consistently this obtuse angle where he discredited certain arguments but never aimed to really attack anyone. He constantly was throwing out stale reads and wanted to avoid direct confrontation, spending most of his time in response mode. The game for awhile until (claims) happened was like paint drying. It didn't seem like Nopoint wanted to make any drastic decisions in lieu of this and was running out of people to hide behind. I'm feeling pretty confident that prior to those claims, it was a definite "oh shit" moment for them due to resolving night actions. The question remains whether the way Nopoint is telling of stronger scum who he felt were capable enough to carry the game, or a feeling of helplessness.

[unwnd]

Noraa where are you looking besides andres and why are you so convinced?

Is it really just because of my influence

[Insanoflex]

Ctrl+F andres in Nopoint's ISO and there's a disparaging amount of leeway in their interactions lol

That is what I was saying as of Day 2; When a potential wagon was starting to form on nopoint day 1 andres was attempting to defuse it: 250 258 262 546
And these on day 2: 692 760

[unwnd]

The only hesitance from me is that I really do think scum voted Nopoint, like I don't think there are many wagons I've seen form on a mate (especially with how it went down) and they didn't try to get some cred for it

[Andresvmb]

@plus I hate to say it but you should not have listened to me once nopoint flipped Scum. I am clearly off this game.

I was looking back in shame - I think unwnd is Town. I’m also not voting {plus, Flavor}.

VOTE: geraintm

[Andresvmb]

yeah sorry noraa I like ya but I think it's you
FL did a poor job of convincing me, his exchange with you was very TvT to me

Should've shot you instead of fuzzy
VOTE: noraa

I think this slot is Town but I’m honestly not going to stick my neck out so much.