Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[Andresvmb]

Why did I quote my own post? Didn’t intend to do that.

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

Hey Johnny. Yeah we’ve played... what is it, three times before? This would be the fourth if I’m not wrong. I lost 2 consecutive games as Town against Shelly Scum, and the third one she replaced out as Town (I was also Town). If I believed in policy executions, I would push for shellyc but that’s not my style. The entrance was simply an acknowledgement that Shelly knows what she’s doing as Scum.

why even mention something like this to begin with? Like bruh that's shady as hell. Ik shelly gets PLed pretty damn often and its normally cuz of dumb stuff like this.

hiya peeps.
recognise a few more names than normal.

this game started on the 4th of the 12th, wonder when we will be done by.

Geraintm should we expect much of the same from you D1 that I’ve seen in the past? Though to be fair, last time you were actually onto something D1, so maybe don’t sell yourself short?

More potential shade.....
Im currently thinking Andres is definitely scum. I think this does look like scum poking around(Even if its early) for soft spots where they can potentially park?

hiya peeps.
recognise a few more names than normal.

this game started on the 4th of the 12th, wonder when we will be done by.

Geraintm should we expect much of the same from you D1 that I’ve seen in the past? Though to be fair, last time you were actually onto something D1, so maybe don’t sell yourself short?

Which game are you referring to?
I am not expecting much more from me today than normal. Shall see after that....

definitely too meek...

Why didn't you vote? Also explain?

i voted in my post EXACTLY before that so...?

it was a joke. but newer scum often greet the entire thread as an opening. (no offense andres)

I’m not a newer player, and I try to be friendly as either alignment (at least to start). You’ll find plenty of games on my home site where I come in and greet people generally. It depends on my mood.

over explain-y. Greeting people isn't exactly something strange? No one asked for evidence for something this small.

UNVOTE:

I’m leaving Town on shellyc. I’ll catch up on the rest of the arguments later.

......................................well ... this TR sure was weak.

Automatic townie points to whoever votes Andre with me

Just out of curiosity, why do you think I’m a good push here?

self consciousness?

I’m also inclined to think that nopointinactingup is likely Town based purely on the fact that nobody jumped to their defense really. Fuzzy piled on in 143 to defend Dunnstral, and most others ignored the interaction for the most part. Flavor Leaf decided it was more important to make things about himself, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. Will keep reading.

This feels like a town!andres game

I get an intentionally passive vibe from FL atm

I don’t know what to make of Flavor here yet, but I expect Flavor’s intensity and analysis to pick up later this game. For now I’m null on the slot, but I will say that Flavor admitting that certain posts are performative, and generally not committing to any read doesn’t strike me as Scum!Flavor. Just food for thought.

I do think Andres is too quick to give flavor a town pass. It almost feels like TMI. Like this isn't town assuming. This is scum knowing.

You're here and that's cool

Flavor knows better to self-vote, he's supposed to be experienced. If you want to argue if anyone was being superfluous it was Flavor, and frankly I'm not gonna sit and entertain and neither should you. Unfortunately, Flavor has a huge ego. I know you're not probably not aware of it but it is always bordering anti-town, and usually when I find myself in conversations with him they end up with me leaving them empty, at least in the aspect of how he treats the game. Right now Flavor has sat here and said 'i tried to get the game started' but like I predicted nobody nibbled and now I've been left with an empty thought on what it all meant, so feel free to give your perspective Anders

Oh I’ve played with Flavor enough times to have a sense for the player that he is. But you know, Flavor is a far better Scum player than he is Town. It’s why they have a Scum guide and not a Town guide on their signature. So in a way, him not putting much effort into this game doesn’t immediately make the alarms in my head go off. If I spot anything I’ll put it out there, but for now, I’m not seeing Flavor Scum. Of course, Flavor doesn’t deserve to be TR after mostly talking about themselves. I was just saying - I mostly ignored the self-vote as a vanity play and moved on. I think you should too.

You were so keen on asking flavor for reads and stuff I almost thought you didn't know flavor's town games are terrible compared to his scum.

Giving players like Flavor no accountability allows to run amuck and do whatever the fuck he wants. I don't care if he's Don Corgi and I didn't care in the last game I played with him, his actions have to prove to me otherwise he's going to beneficial to town wincon

Yeah I agree Flavor needs to prove he’s Town. Of course. He has yet to do anything crazy though.

Again this crappy town pass. Andres says himself that flavor has a good scum game yet is this fast to just be like "ahaha its fine. Flavor is town"
I can see many possibilities and tho I'm confbiasing at this point, here's what I see:
1) scum pocketing out of fear
2) scum knowing flavor is town and so seeing the towniness more easily.

[Noraa]

I’m also inclined to think that nopointinactingup is likely Town based purely on the fact that nobody jumped to their defense really. Fuzzy piled on in 143 to defend Dunnstral, and most others ignored the interaction for the most part. Flavor Leaf decided it was more important to make things about himself, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. Will keep reading.

This is a terrible post btw. does look like scum theatre to some extent.

[Noraa]

@unwnd, ah but my point was not that you were instigating an attack. I made a strategic observation about what you could be doing as Scum. IF (admittedly a decently big if, but I would lean positive on their aggressive attitudes) Dunn and nopoint are both Town, then what you did would make a lot of sense as Scum. You chose a side despite the fact that you don’t particularly TR one side of the argument (you claimed to have done it for a friend, but that just seems like a potential pocket attempt to me), which sets you well for the next few days. If the fight continues (say, because you believe Dunn is stubborn), and we end up in a situation where one of them flips, you get to hide behind the person actually driving the attack. It happens often enough around these parts that I simply had to point it out.

this is really monologic-y and overly complicated for this early in the game. Feels unnatural.

@Unwnd I didn’t think it took a whole lot of sophisticated thinking to jump in there though.

Would you describe yourself as an experienced player?

So then you’ll forgive me for arguing that you are definitely capable as Scum of making the decision of jumping between nopoint and Dunn and taking a side.

Anyway, that’s enough of this point. I’ll let others come in and put their own thoughts forward.

This interaction is pretty dumb if u ask me.

@Titus, can you walk me through your vote on shellyc? I’m trying to figure out if there’s anything I’m missing.

Oh you really don't wanna lead a mislim wagon lol. You're literally begging Titus to lead it for u.

[Noraa]

83 is an implied read, I'm not sure how you see it as a slip instead

There is a real fine line between making implied reads and subconsciously blurting out prior knowledge.

yeah last game I said someone was in town..... I meant to make it sound like a town read . I am not sure if that what happening here but I think it something I need to keep my eyes on

Dunnstral - why do you think that Shlly is town as you gave zero indication why you have that read


@ FL- how can you tell. Doing a little more of nothing still gets you nothing. Anways Not Mafia is giving all indication of his town game. He did this last game as town and in the other game I saw where he is town.

We should prob sort FL and Titus. Both are good players and can be dangerous if they are scum. Just my humble opinion

huh..how am I defending Dun...... I am confused as I did not attack or defend Dun but was trying clarify the motivation for their actions.

I didn’t directly address this. Fuzzy I don’t think you have to come out guns blazing to defend someone. You directly empathized with Dunnstral, no? You are indirectly saying in 143 that you’ve done as Town in a different game what nopoint is arguing is actually a Scum slip. Now, this isn’t to say that I don’t agree with your point. In fact, I do. I do the exact same thing as Town, where I plainly state that I think someone else is Town (in other words, it doesn’t necessitate a Scum perspective). I think your statement that you’ll keep an eye out for what’s to come is exactly what I intend to do.

This is confusing.

You don't know this

Unless, of course, he's scum. In which case he does know it. Which begs the question how do YOU know he's not scum?

I merely commented on a post where I think someone was displaying too great overconfidence in a read on day 1. no one can say things like that [outside the obvious scum/mason type roles]. I always dislike people being too confident in their day 1 abilities to read the game. anyone who sits there and builds a scum team day 1, I will just ignore for a while.

flavour has just caused us to waste 2 or 3 days through their vote

When you get far past enough knowing not to self vote, you reach an area where it starts to be okay again.

.

this is a perfect example of someone disappearing up their own arse because of trying to be too smart...

VOTE: unwnd

i'll elaborate when im off work

this needs to come. not going to let shelly get away with a vote and apromised explanation and it never appearing....

Yeah ... way too mellow. Im going to continue just ISOing Andres and Insano and treat geraint as confscum.

[Andresvmb]

Well you know at least I’m flattered. You’ve decided I’m such a threat that you had to try and straight up bury me in a game. I respect that. You’ll also never going to be able to get away with it now. You’ve made such a big fuss about it that if I do flip, you won’t get to live it down as an honest mistake.

[Noraa]

I should have expected that response.

I’m not seeing it, so I’m trying to get more than justifications based on the self-vote play. Flavor clearly posted reads - anything that raised some flags from that?

^that’s an open question to anybody on the wagon.

Haha u realllllllly don't wanna join a wagon without making sure someone else is confident enough to push it thru and take the blame

Clearly not everybody on the Flavor wagon is Scum. There’s something fascinating about nopoint + Dunn + unwnd all agreeing that this vote makes sense based on how the beginning of the day played out. Titus has been largely absent so I don’t really read too much into that vote to be totally honest (it could be Scum piling on, particularly if Flavor is Town, but it could easily be Town that is going through the motions too), and Not_Mafia will do their thing (I’m not getting the same positive vibes as last game so I don’t know if Not_Mafia is Town, but the reputation is there for a reason). So what’s going on?

This is a lot of shade thrown at people that are dead and conftown

[Andresvmb]

This post is terrible! Terrible reasoning! You use the SAME words as Scum without understanding what it is you’re actually arguing.

Scum theater isn’t typically associated with someone making a game state comment about a slot. It would be if we fought hard against each other as Scum both, or if we went for the full we’re an alliance that can’t be beaten.

[Andresvmb]

I was so begging Titus to lead a mis-execution train that I decided... to shoot there N1? That makes no sense at all.

[Noraa]

@Titus I think you’re being somewhat unfair in your response. I would note that you hadn’t really clarified the why you hadn’t read but decided to vote anyway until your last post. I don’t question people’s real life motivations/excuses. That’s a dangerous road to go down and I assume that people play in good faith unless it’s shown otherwise (and convincingly so). You will note that your vote has been followed by a quasi-naked vote from Not_Mafia, and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of activity even though Flavor is E-2. Your vote also clearly makes Flavor the leading vote getter, instead of making it look more spread out. I didn’t mean dangerous in the sense that Flavor could get randomly executed, but rather that it creates a strong sense of momentum.

why so confident flavor town???????

anyone else wanna join the notmafia wagon?

I think you should consider moving to a wagon that has a higher chance of success. Though I believe that your push for Not_Mafia is genuine, I can’t see it happening today just yet.

Defends flavor. Then tries to sneakily get him more votes :/

ok imma stop posting every few iso posts. I'm gonna dump a huge wall later.

[unwnd]

Stop bickering with another. Let her come to her own conclusions

Moreover, Noraa I want you to entertain the idea of being wrong just for a second

Where do you go next?

[Noraa]

Defends flavor. Then tries to sneakily get him more votes :/

ok imma stop posting every few iso posts. I'm gonna dump a huge wall later.

Oh also TMI for Plus town.

[Andresvmb]

I never voted Flavor. Not once. Not even threw a SR in that direction. I did say I would consolidate there if forced to, but that I remained skeptical at the idea that Flavor was Scum. If I was looking for someone to give me permission to vote there, I sure did it wrong.

[Noraa]

Stop bickering with another. Let her come to her own conclusions

Moreover, Noraa I want you to entertain the idea of being wrong just for a second

Where do you go next?

hm im not sure. lets say Andres flips town, I probably die tomorrow because flavor seems to want me dead more than anything and no one else is even doing shit. Its personal and its stupid as hell that he's carrying bias like that and openly admits it too.

[unwnd]

Is there anything based on your push of Andres that you're uncertain about? Don't get yourself into a tunnel where you just start confbiasing everything they do as scum.

Andres you too, I can't believe I have to say this at all lol

[Noraa]

I think we need to stop townreading flavor for mysterious 'he wouldn't play like this' reasons and hold him to a higher standard, that means elimming him when his play is bad/scummy

I don't trust anyone's read on him that has him as town at this point in time

I don’t understand this post at all. Where has anyone uttered a TR of Flavor based on the fact that he wouldn’t “play this way as Scum”? Can you point me to it? Because off the top of my head, I don’t recall anyone really making that argument.

What specifically about his play has been Scummy to you? Outside of him obviously SR’ing you, how do you think his approach is not from a Town POV?

Ok wait sorry I need to post this before it gets lost in the wall. This is stupid as hell.

For flavor, you assume he's town and then look to see if anything contradicts.
For me, you assume I'm scum and then look to see if anything contradicts.
wtf.
Like it seems to me like you TRed him just for the pocket but then I came along and u were like "oh haha this ones not pocket material. this ones limbait"

[Andresvmb]

Is there anything based on your push of Andres that you're uncertain about? Don't get yourself into a tunnel where you just start confbiasing everything they do as scum.

Andres you too, I can't believe I have to say this at all lol

Have you even read my progression on the slot? It’s like you refuse to pay attention to what’s immediately in front of you to avoid confrontation.

[Noraa]

Is there anything based on your push of Andres that you're uncertain about?

recent posting is decent. most of the shitty push on me is very bad tho.

[Andresvmb]

And when I flip Town, you should get executed. This bad faith attempt at painting everything I’ve done as Scummy or terrible should get you executed. If not because it would confirm the obvious, to teach you a lesson.

[unwnd]

I am paying attention but see no compromise between either of you.

Let's put it this way: If Noraa is scum she's gonna keep this up. if you're scum the same logic applies. What I want to see is a ceasefire and then maybe reigning your thoughts in and giving the thread room to fucking breathe. I stated that I think there's probably scum on the nopoint wagon and from what I understand you believe it's Insano which is a start. For you anders, you're certain of Noraa/Insano?

[Andresvmb]

I’m pretty sure Noraa is Scum. Too many bad faith arguments being made against me for it to make sense as anything else.

And Insano’s position is untenable. I will flip Town. And Insano will be forced to confront the reality that the Scum bussed. Just watch the reaction when that’s the case. Insano can’t openly argue that Flavor and I are the Team, because then their hypothesis that the Scum did not bus collapses. So they have to push a very narrow reality that geraintm and I are the Scum Team. This idea will have to be discarded one way or the other. And Insano not even being open to that possibility until one of geraintm/me being executed should be a red flag to you.

[Andresvmb]

^is executed should be a red flag*

[Andresvmb]

For example, I directly stated that I would not push for a policy execution of shellyc because that’s not how I play, and that I look to evaluate players in a game based on the merits. Noraa’s interpretation? That I was looking for a policy execution of shellyc. So regardless of what I actually said (or the fact that I gave shellyc a TR early) I was *looking* for a PL because well, it fits the narrative. It’s a bad faith argument.

[Andresvmb]

You’ll also notice that I am being shaded for giving geraintm some crap for their Day 1 play (which was an attempt to encourage them to post and not shy away from putting their views out there). If geraintm is confScum, as Noraa has declared, why does my shade there count against me? That’s, again, absurd. If you want to argue it’s theater by all means. But the actual argument put forth doesn’t make sense.

[Andresvmb]

And now all of my solid reads are TMI? That’s not how TMI works btw. Noraa is completely ignoring the actual progression behind a read, and arguing that any read she supposedly agrees with is based on too much information. But how convenient is that?