TENET - Game Over

[Bell]

you mind if i just put link to previous posts as explainations bell?

I would mind actually.
But you can take your time.

[Brian Skies]

Flavor Leaf already flipped town this game and he was doing that. But I wasn't really paying attention to him when he got yeeted.

While I think it's possible for town to just be mistaken about things, I don't really think that's what Titus is doing here. She's dug in her heels despite being told her reasons are wrong and I feel like she's intentionally ignoring it to paint me in a scummy light, especially since a decent number of players aren't really paying much attention to this game anyway and continue to go 'oh why can't this just be Titus being Titus'.

[Bell]

If she flips town you realize that it was titus just being titus right?

[Brian Skies]

But each of them mischaracterized by town play as scum play
or mechanically reasoned incorrectly.

The difference here is that we legitimately thought you were crumbing doc and/or even night modifier. I think you can see that for yourself.

Titus has been straight up told that her reasons against me are wrong and she has had zero reconsideration. Yet for whatever reason you're just like 'oh Titus digging in must mean Titus is town whereas Brian digging in means Brian is scum.'

[Brian Skies]

If she flips town you realize that it was titus just being titus right?

And then if she flips scum that means she was just being scum?

[Bell]

Are you saying that you're different people with different personalities and therefore what might be true of one of you might not be true for the other?

Nonsense.

[Brian Skies]

No, I'm telling you that she's probably just scum here.

And that your situation is not her situation.

[Bell]

No, I'm telling you that she's probably just scum here.

And that your situation is not her situation.

*taps your sarcasm radar*

[Brian Skies]

There's no sarcasm in that post.

[Bell]

You weren't saying this.

You were arguing that it wasn't fair that I was applying a titus measurement stick to Titus.
But not applying a Titus measurement stick to Brian.

[Brian Skies]

You weren't saying this.

You were arguing that it wasn't fair that I was applying a titus measurement stick to Titus.
But not applying a Titus measurement stick to Brian.

Oh, well, sure. We're definitely two different people.

But don't you think you saying 'Brian couldn't possibly want to dig in his heels against Titus here' to be rather unfair given the circumstances?

[Bell]

I don't wanna go down the fairness line of scum hunting where we eliminate the least deserving and reward the most deserving instead of just killing whoever got the red role pm.

[Brian Skies]

Like, I think Cabd+ffery going 'Bell is definitely crumbing here' to be rather similar to Titus going 'Brian definitely influenced the Pisskop + Pooky turnstiles'.

Except that your posts did kinda sorta look like crumbs and I had nothing to do with those turnstiles.

[Brian Skies]

(This is as close as you're going to get to an endorsement to keep living, Bell, just take it before I go back into the death wind tunnel)

For the record, I am accepting that Bell issue is now effectively kicked down the road and can be re-evaluated as need be, if he lives to lategame ya'll can channel my "I told you so" or when I come back as a stump you can expect it then.

I actually have theories of Bell-scum universes that I've been withholding because I want to believe in a Bell-town universe, but he's making it difficult to do that.

[Bell]

Unless I'm missing something here, you basically just said that because I'm not letting you have your way you wish to elaborate on every Bell scum universe that isn't true in this one because you'd rather do that then just not get frustrated and understand where I'm coming from and accept that what I'm saying is,
is that I'd like to hear from Titus and Gyphx.

[Brian Skies]

No, I'm saying I can't tell if your position here is because you legitimately think that Titus play here is just 'weird' rather than you being her buddy and trying to protect her.

[Bell]

I haven't read the other thread and whatever post you're making Cabd,

but you better full back pedal if you wanna look cool this game.
FF looks very cool.

[Bell]

No, I'm saying I can't tell if your position here is because you legitimately think that Titus play here is just 'weird' rather than you being her buddy and trying to protect her.

Sure, I'm scum with Titus.
This makes sense and is definitely something you've thought deeply about.

[Brian Skies]

Like I was already completely off your wagon and pushing Titus when she came in and claimed to "protect Bell from Brian."

But you're like "I really can't see a world where scum-Titus does this and she definitely has to be town for it."

[Brian Skies]

Sure, I'm scum with Titus.
This makes sense and is definitely something you've thought deeply about.

If she doesn't flip some sort of strongman or other interference role, then yes, you're probably going to come under heavy scrutiny.

[Bell]

Changing your mind and being right about changing your mind is probably one of the coolest things a human is capable of doing from Bell perspective.

[Bell]

Sure, I'm scum with Titus.
This makes sense and is definitely something you've thought deeply about.

If she doesn't flip some sort of strongman or other interference role, then yes, you're probably going to come under heavy scrutiny.

I don't wanna be that guy, but this isn't a good post.

[Brian Skies]

I was thinking of her argument about there needing to be two or more doctors to protect the lovers with the presence of two night kills.

There are a lot of problems with this.

1) They would just claim their role and we would probably just not turnstile them.
2) The two claimed protective roles we have claim they can only use their role in their current timestream, so it would be impossible to protect both anyway. And their roles seem to only function if they both exist in the same timestream.
3) By the time the timestreams converge, the scumteam goes back to one night kill (presumably) and I think the need for town to have two or more protective roles sitting on the lovers is silly and probably not an expectation we should have. Like have you seen any games where multiple doctors were included just to protect lovers? Or any game where protecting the lovers was a requirement to win?

I'm just struggling to see this here.

Oh yes, I shouldn't say "thread." Same timestream. The timestreams remain separate even after the merge.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Like just sit down and think about this:

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?


And if you do... why TELL them about it?

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?

Because he wanted to add in more effects that have to do with inversion to make it more likely to be relevant?

And if you do... why TELL them about it?

It would be incredibly rude bordering on bastard to not.

also SS i don't think im risking anyting by defending u. nor do i think im hard defending u.

I think what you're risking as scum is losing the ability to mis-exe me.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Yes.

I would think it's meant to be negative utility (either for both of us if we're both town, or for the scum one if one of us is scum).

Bell, I'm curious to know your opinions on these things.

[Brian Skies]

I don't wanna be that guy, but this isn't a good post.

Am I wrong though?

[Spiffeh]

I am probably going to hammer soon I am ready for this day to be over

Titus' crusade against Brian is so unbelievable to me that it transcends ~moonlogic~

Titus picked me as a mason in Titus vs. Alisae specifically because she knows I can talk her off a ledge when I think she's wrong and I think my reach out to her would have made her reconsider AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT if she were town here. Her refusal to acknowledge my reasons and instead doubling down make me think she's more concerned with pushing her agenda than getting this lim right

I think her explanations for her read shifts (mainly on me and Muffin) are bad and I don't see a world where Titus suddenly stops being paranoid of me for the reasons she has stated

The Lover claim changes nothing for me.

There's also the fact that I continue to question the accuracy of my PoE pool because I feel like Brian and Muffin really towned it up today (and Hench Princesses but to a lesser extent) and my uncertainty there probably means one of my hard town reads is just scum