PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Ircher]

Okay, I read like the first quarter of the linked game, and like Solstice above, it doesn't really look the same as mastina's game here. The beginning definitely looked much different, but that may be in part because this game had a draft. In the linked game, mastina quoted some posts and assigned them reads. Here, mastina kinda goes full throttle into speculating based on what Flavor Leaf would do for the draft.

Another, more significant difference, is that mastina gave a lot of reads lists this game. Looking through the linked one, she doesn't really seem to do that. In fact, at a glance, it seems a bit hard to tell where mastina stands at any given time whereas here, mastina's position is quite clear.

I also agree with Solstice that mastina seemed to focus more on towncasing people that game. Maybe that's just because it was easier, but it could be the case that scum!mastina is more aware of how tunneling someone who is going to flip town is going to look bad.

Finally, I think mastina seemed more mechanically focused in the linked game as compared to here. She had reads based on the draft here, but she seemed to quickly discard them seeing as how Creature and me were at the bottom of her reads lists quite early on. That being said, the mystery box game seems to be a bit more mechanics heavy (the number of scum is actually an important detail!) Overall, this game still looks like it's more likely town!mastina than scum!mastina.

[Solstice]

Scum have some form of roleblocker--presumably, having blocked Ydrasse both N2 and N3. So at least 2x if not more.

Yes, but it is possible that Ydrasse holstered N2. Ydrasse did explicitly say they targeted DEB N3, but Ydrasse made no remark about their target N2. I recall that the pool of people to vig back then wasn't exactly a good pool for the time. (Granted, some of us had the masons in their scum reads, so it makes sense certain people weren't in the pool. Nonetheless, we didn't know that at the time.)

Three masons, one vig, one investigative loosely at the level of a cop, and one or two roles that give info but are otherwise worthless. (Informed, Supersaint Enabler.)

You forgot the roaming doctor. 3x masons can also be a pretty powerful combo. I still agree with the overall sentiment that even with the doctor, the odds are favorable Solstice's role is town here.

Yes, that’s at least part of why I was reluctant to vote Dunn, I think Tweetie is playing differently here than she did in Royalty, so Solstice is still my strongest tr.

[to be fair, I had a lot of shit going on during Royalty including finals, here I'm on winter break. now im not going to argue that i'm similar, but im curious for your take on what makes me seem different about me here]

[You mentioned that i misrepped you in Royalty and not here, but i guess i don't really get how that is an argument for me being town. Especially considering all I remember doing to you in Royalty was just hard townreading and thats it.]

~Morning

[Solstice]

[Oh also, Gloria, do you have any completed scumgames yet? I was never able to find any but clearly i am incompetent at doing so, as there was a completed mastina scumgame I missed]

~Morning

[Ircher]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake
Doing this now, since Ircher unvoted and Toogeloo never really voted (per mod's way of handling votes), so this is back to

L-2

.

VOTE: Doctor Easy Bake

E-1

VOTE: The Original D (myself)

I'm really surprised no one is seeing what I'm seeing here

I do think it's a somewhat suspect sequence of events. I had indeed unvoted specifically because I didn't want a hammer then. (Now, you may think--why did I let Toogaloo do the E-1 vote earlier--well, I figured it was okay because I thought the chances of Supersaint here, much less Hated Supersaint, were really low, so it was a risk I was willing to take.)

That being said, I kinda don't think scum would be so reckless as to coordinate a quickhammer in broad daylight like that. Idk, maybe they would with Flavor Leaf at the helm, but I can reasonably buy mastina's vote here as her thinking it was relatively low risk. It's very possible she didn't expect a hammer. (On the flip side, maybe she /wanted/ a hammer to happen...)

[MURDERCAT]

Seriously? Deb has barely been around all game and you don't think it was coordinated when they post within 10 minutes of each other during the holidays in the middle of the night?

[Ircher]

Well I actually don't know DEB's schedule. I assume that DEB does a lot of active lurking, so DEB would know when they are E-1. mastina tends to be around at that time anyway--it didn't seem that unusual. I guess Polar Bears looks the worst there, but they could probably find a credible defense for their actions.

[Polar Bear Express]

The more Mastina says this could be her scum game, the more I'm just believing its not :/
My TRs are Mastina and Solstice.
Gloria agrees with me for the most part on mastina but has some doubt about solstice I'm pretty sure.
My main thing with solstice is just the claim seems too weird to be from scum & the effort seems real not fake. Assuming DEB is a scum supersaint, I don't think scum ever claims supersaint enabler here.

-nornor

[What made you think DEB was the supersaint?]

~Morning

I know that this was directed to Noraa but for 1, I recall scum!Dunn fakeclaiming that role (detective) in some game , 2, Dunn vt flip, 3, what I posted about Ydrasse saying that a redirector made no sense. 4, I hard tr you but more importantly, I believe it’s extremely unlikely for your role to be fake.


So, I thought either Toog if not DEB had the greatest likihood of being that role based off my reads because I think town SS would have likely claimed it.
So, taking into account your role claim, I think it’s completely logical to assume that probably one of DEB/Toog were lying about their role and detective with a fake guilty makes slightly more sense as a scum SS than a vt claiming it but only slightly. so I figured one of those too was likely scum SS.

[Solstice]

[Gloria's list of threads is way smaller than I remember it being. Did I mix her up with someone else..? Anyway she doesn't have any scum games yet, lol]

Merry Christmas!!!!

Gloria and I don't really agree on much besides DEB!scum.
We've agreed that she'll be the one providing reads for now and I'll just be on the lookout and voice my opinions to her. By request, this thread can also get them.

-nornor

ahhhhhh shittttt

[What was your reasoning for having Noraa lay low -- if it's game related anyway?]

Seriously? Deb has barely been around all game and you don't think it was coordinated when they post within 10 minutes of each other during the holidays in the middle of the night?

[WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT IT DOES NOTHING TO HELP THEM]

[I don't even know why I'm asking that question anymore considering the SvS detective claims]

[Okay, i did actually establish earlier that it was good for DEB to self-hammer (from scum's PoV of Ydrasse not shooting). So they did have motivation. But oh my fucking god lol, there is absolutely no reason to make it look that blatant]

~Morning

[Polar Bear Express]

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake
Doing this now, since Ircher unvoted and Toogeloo never really voted (per mod's way of handling votes), so this is back to

L-2

.

VOTE: Doctor Easy Bake

E-1

VOTE: The Original D (myself)

I'm really surprised no one is seeing what I'm seeing here

Tell us please. Explain it to me like I’m five.

[Ircher]

Tell us please. Explain it to me like I’m five.

This post is kinda concerning... Especially considering what we're discussing rn...

[Solstice]

[I concur with Ircher though that it is very conceivable for mastina to think that vote was low-risk. I did NOT expect that to happen at all, i didn't think we were gonna place Dr Easy to X-1 until Toog was around, since like, that's the precedent we had set with the X-2. I was flabbergasted that the day got cut off like that]

~Morning

[Polar Bear Express]

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake
Doing this now, since Ircher unvoted and Toogeloo never really voted (per mod's way of handling votes), so this is back to

L-2

.

VOTE: Doctor Easy Bake

E-1

VOTE: The Original D (myself)

I'm really surprised no one is seeing what I'm seeing here

[That was a serious "

why

" from Polarbears, sure]

[Would be kinda surprised if they were instructed to put Dr Easy to X-1 (or decided to put him to X-1 for that reason), and then they decide to naked vote it , and then Dr Easy decided to self hammer literally 8 minutes later. So i am leaning a bit that it wasn't intentional. I don't know, perhaps it was important Dr Easy self hammered quick -- but like, Toog wasn't gonna be online, were they?]

~Morning

Oh okay I think I get it now. I think it possibly either points to whomever’s scum either attempting to make us look bad or not even thinking about that. I think regardless, DEB self-hammer softclears us based off of everything I’m familiar with wrt FL’s past scumgames, so rn, I’m leaning to the latter. I’m really shocked why DEB does this with Toog town though. That still doesn’t make any sense to me.

[Polar Bear Express]

Tell us please. Explain it to me like I’m five.

This post is kinda concerning... Especially considering what we're discussing rn...

I really don’t see why?

[Polar Bear Express]

VOTE: Doctor Easy Bake

E-1

See my vote people. Pay very close attention to the “E-1” part of it. Why does scum!us make it a point of putting DEB at E-1, make it a point of specifically pointing that out, if we we’re buddies with DEB here? It’s not exactly rocket science.

[Solstice]

Oh okay I think I get it now. I think it possibly either points to whomever’s scum either attempting to make us look bad or not even thinking about that. I think regardless, DEB self-hammer softclears us based off of everything I’m familiar with wrt FL’s past scumgames, so rn, I’m leaning to the latter. I’m really shocked why DEB does this with Toog town though. That still doesn’t make any sense to me.

[Tl;dr -- if scum believes that Ydrasse can't shoot last night, then town is robbed of a miselimination. He did not save Toog, he was attempting to screw us by making us kill Toog for him.]

[I mean, attempting to make you look bad, I guess. It's very lucky on DEB's part, but yeah, if you're town, sure. Softclear is a big stretch because it would be much, much easier for that scenario to occur if you are scum. It is something scum wanted to happen, and that made it happen.]

[MURDERCAT]

Did I post about DEBs crumbs in the main thread?
Remember how the timing on those was too obvious?

[Solstice]

VOTE: Doctor Easy Bake

E-1

See my vote people. Pay very close attention to the “E-1” part of it. Why does scum!us make it a point of putting DEB at E-1, make it a point of specifically pointing that out, if we we’re buddies with DEB here? It’s not exactly rocket science.

[..huh? You realize that Dr Easy doesn't care if you put an E-1 warning on the vote. What does an E-1 warning have to do with your alignment?]

~Morning

[Solstice]

[Polarbears totally missing why they're scummy is giving me flashbacks to DEB not realizing. I don't even know if that makes them scummy, but I'm not going to call it towny like i did last time]

~Morning

[Ircher]

Also, as a side note: I find it very strange scum didn't roleblock Ydrasse despite Ydrasse claiming gated. That suggests the roleblocker is gated.

[Ircher]

(Granted, that was my assumption anyways, but just pointing that out.)

[Polar Bear Express]

Scum have some form of roleblocker--presumably, having blocked Ydrasse both N2 and N3. So at least 2x if not more.

Yes, but it is possible that Ydrasse holstered N2. Ydrasse did explicitly say they targeted DEB N3, but Ydrasse made no remark about their target N2. I recall that the pool of people to vig back then wasn't exactly a good pool for the time. (Granted, some of us had the masons in their scum reads, so it makes sense certain people weren't in the pool. Nonetheless, we didn't know that at the time.)

Three masons, one vig, one investigative loosely at the level of a cop, and one or two roles that give info but are otherwise worthless. (Informed, Supersaint Enabler.)

You forgot the roaming doctor. 3x masons can also be a pretty powerful combo. I still agree with the overall sentiment that even with the doctor, the odds are favorable Solstice's role is town here.

Yes, that’s at least part of why I was reluctant to vote Dunn, I think Tweetie is playing differently here than she did in Royalty, so Solstice is still my strongest tr.

[to be fair, I had a lot of shit going on during Royalty including finals, here I'm on winter break. now im not going to argue that i'm similar, but im curious for your take on what makes me seem different about me here]

[You mentioned that i misrepped you in Royalty and not here, but i guess i don't really get how that is an argument for me being town. Especially considering all I remember doing to you in Royalty was just hard townreading and thats it.]

~Morning

No that definitely isn’t true, you totally misrepped me wrt to TGP. You wrongly shaded me by falsely suggesting I was pushing him when scum knew I was trying to launch Dunn > TGP, so I really don’t understand why you’re disagreeing with me about this. That made me think something was really off about you in that game.

[MURDERCAT]

People still giving Noraa a pass when a mason with the most experience with her is calling her scum is mind numbin please explain scum Bell's reaction to me calling her scum if Noraa is town

[Ircher]

I would love to hear more from Spiffeh.

Anyway, I'm off for the night, see y'all tomorrow morning.

[Polar Bear Express]

[Oh also, Gloria, do you have any completed scumgames yet? I was never able to find any but clearly i am incompetent at doing so, as there was a completed mastina scumgame I missed]

~Morning

No sorry, I would link it if there were.

[Solstice]

[to be fair, I had a lot of shit going on during Royalty including finals, here I'm on winter break. now im not going to argue that i'm similar, but im curious for your take on what makes me seem different about me here]

[You mentioned that i misrepped you in Royalty and not here, but i guess i don't really get how that is an argument for me being town. Especially considering all I remember doing to you in Royalty was just hard townreading and thats it.]

~Morning

No that definitely isn’t true, you totally misrepped me wrt to TGP. You wrongly shaded me by falsely suggesting I was pushing him when scum knew I was trying to launch Dunn > TGP, so I really don’t understand why you’re disagreeing with me about this. That made me think something was really off about you in that game.

[Def unintentional then, as i had no plans of ever shading you that game. Unless that occured maybe really early D1 and I hadn't decided yet or something. I wrote you and I believe 1 other player as never eliminateable.]

[So needless to say -- that's not going to help you with my alignment. i suppose i do find it believable that you'd use that as reasoning for a TR, though. Is that the only one?]

[pedit: nite Ircher]

~Morning