Mini Normal 2185 | EFoBBBiO | Game Over!

[NoPowerOverMe]

794 not a townie post.

795 is not a townie post.

Says the person asking people to stop being aggressive.

[Frogsterking]

@Grendel

I believe that BOTH bugs and Lunar are temperamentally creative, perhaps even more than the rest of us, at the expense of having an organic ability to organize their ideas and produce consistent results over time.

I think they both have a particular kind of strategy where they back themselves into a corner and get underestimated then intuitively draw out some kind of way to save themselves.

My earlier question was related to something you said in this game about scum choosing not to associate with partners that are doing well.

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE:

Was following this game before replacing in, so that's cool. Maybe I'm weird, but I don't think Lunar is especially likely to be scum. The wagon on them seems to be more motivated by them not getting along well with people here than by them being scummy. I don't see scum so blatantly drawing attention to themselves, especially if they have a nervous personality. I don't like the wagon either. Galron and Bugspray's votes both feel like "well here's a wagon, might as well vote it," and then there's frogster. I don't like how they've been convinced Lunar is scum since Lunar's first post and haven't wavered since, even as they reevaluate every other slot. It all feels like an inertia wagon.

I'm not

completely

sold on Bugspray being scum either, but I like their wagon comp a lot better. I think NPOM and Luca are town. Gamma too, with the caveat that I've read a lot of games he's been in and liked his posting regardless of alignment. OutWorldER is a big ??? because so few posts, but their vote here feels... fine? I kinda like it, but can't find the words to say why. My only doubts are because I get the feeling that the inconsistencies in their thought process and read progression might actually just be their personality.

Why the hell did this post take me like 2 hours to write, what the hell. I don't really have a strong impression on Grendel, Trendall, Mom, or Amélie, and will work on them next time.

@Luca (and anyone else with Bugs meta): Do you think bugs' scummy-looking behavior could be their personality, or am I off base?

@Frogster: Do you want me to do that OCEAN thing?

What do you think the odds are that Lunar is town with unusual temperament versus pretty obvious scum?

Also, can you walk me through the progression there? It's not super clear where and why they became your most consistent scumread.

I'm sure that others will find plenty to pick apart here; I feel compelled to point out that you're the only one calling Lunar pretty obvious scum and I'm not sure why you chose to make this question town-with-unusual-temperament vs pretty-obvious-scum, that's an unusual way to phrase the question and it's pretty obvious that you want to OMGUS me but can't make a case against me because there isn't one.

[Frogsterking]

I'm willing to hammer Lunar, ORAM, and bugs today in that order of preference. I'd be pretty stunned if there isn't at least one scum in this group and not very stunned at all if there are three.

Nulls I have are Trendall and OutworldER.

I townread everyone else. If one of my townreads is wrong my first pick would be Amelie as a proxy read off Gamma's intuition and my second pick would be NPOM because of his profile. There is also a weak associative tell I pointed out between the ORAM slot and Momrangal.

[Frogsterking]

I'm also going to nominate Luca to be accepted into the town block.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Yes on Luca to townblock.

[Gamma Emerald]

You recently said you reviewed my posting and thought me town. Then soon after I moved you to my scum reads and this post followed.
Can you talk to me about how you are thinking?

That isn’t an accurate representation of the timeline
I feel like it’s hard to parse out what factors into your reads so they come across as baseless and random

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like this is either a huge play style clash or you are scum. I hate nearly every post you post.

Curious why frogster didn’t address this when bringing up that point about emotion before
Btw I think part of the problem with your posts Amelie is you put your thoughts behind the spoiler= tag so it’s harder to engage with.

[GeorgeBailey]

Votecount 1.15

Trendall(3)

~ Grendel(76), Lunar Martian(56), NoPowerOverMe(128)

Lunar Martian(3)

~ Galron(29), bugspray(48), Frogsterking(74)

bugspray(3)

~ Luca Blight(96), OutWorldER(18), Gamma Emerald(118)

OutWorldER(2)

~ Trendall(36), Momrangal(39)

NoPowerOverMe(1)

~ Amélie(67)

Not Voting (1): ORAM(6)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-01 11:27:58)

FLAVOR

frame 14 out of 19035

[Luca Blight]

@

Mod

: Amelie voted for me last. It was behind spoilers so that’s probably why you missed it.

[Luca Blight]

@Grendel

: Bugs is a creative player. I remember once they were a mason (and I was scum) and they had some really creative theatre with their fellow mason, but I realised they and their partner were masons really early on D1 so it backfired on them that game.

During Bugs’ scum game I remember them doing this weird chart of associations, which also showed some creativity. That’s just off the top of my head, I’ll re-check their meta for anything else.

[Frogsterking]

I feel like this is either a huge play style clash or you are scum. I hate nearly every post you post.

Curious why frogster didn’t address this when bringing up that point about emotion before
Btw I think part of the problem with your posts Amelie is you put your thoughts behind the spoiler= tag so it’s harder to engage with.

Gamma your emotion toward Amelie is disgust and sensitivity to disgust is correlated with conscientiousness.

It seems like you're disgusted by what you view in her as chaotic and unproductive and she's revolting against what she sees in you as orderly and authoritarian.

Conscientiousness increases with age, especially throughout the early to late 20s, so it could be some kind of dynamic like the older liberal being disgusted with the younger liberal.

[Frogsterking]

Well it looks like you're both in your early 20s so scratch that theory out.

[bugspray]

During Bugs’ scum game I remember them doing this weird chart of associations, which also showed some creativity. That’s just off the top of my head, I’ll re-check their meta for anything else.

I remember that! I put everyone's avatar in a circle and then drew random lines of different colors and claimed it explained everything

[Grendel]

that sounds hilarious ngl

[Frogsterking]

@bugs

Do you believe it's accurate to say that you and Lunar have a similar approach?

@Gamma

Here it is:

In order to understand the friction you need to know that Conscientiousness and Openness have a negative correlation and are kind of like the concept of being left-brained and right-brained. Openness is like entrepreneur, artist, liberal and inventor people and Conscientiousness is like the banker, lawyer, manager and administrator people. And I'm not talking about a subtle correlation here; if you talk your friend who is an artist or trying to start a business into taking the OCEAN test they WILL be high in Openness and likely not Conscientiousness. Vice versa for the bankers and lawyers as well.

At their worst Openness creates mobs like the French Revolution or Detroit and Conscientiousness creates systematic genocide like Nazi Germany or Klux Klan. The sub trait of Liberalism experiences hostility toward signs of authoritarianism and the sub trait of Orderliness experiences disgust toward chaotic behavior.

Amelie, Grendel, and Gamma

are all high in openness as far as my eye can see which implies similarity in some or all of these sub facets below:

"Your score on Openness to Experience is high, indicating you enjoy novelty, variety, and change. You are curious, imaginative, and creative.
Openness Facets

Imagination. To imaginative individuals, the real world is often too plain and ordinary. High scorers on this scale use fantasy as a way of creating a richer, more interesting world. Low scorers are on this scale are more oriented to facts than fantasy. Your level of imagination is $flev[13].

Artistic Interests. High scorers on this scale love beauty, both in art and in nature. They become easily involved and absorbed in artistic and natural events. They are not necessarily artistically trained nor talented, although many will be. The defining features of this scale are interest in, and appreciation of natural and artificial beauty. Low scorers lack aesthetic sensitivity and interest in the arts. Your level of artistic interests is $flev[14].

Emotionality. Persons high on Emotionality have good access to and awareness of their own feelings. Low scorers are less aware of their feelings and tend not to express their emotions openly. Your level of emotionality is $flev[15].

Adventurousness. High scorers on adventurousness are eager to try new activities, travel to foreign lands, and experience different things. They find familiarity and routine boring, and will take a new route home just because it is different. Low scorers tend to feel uncomfortable with change and prefer familiar routines. Your level of adventurousness is $flev[16].

Intellect. Intellect and artistic interests are the two most important, central aspects of openness to experience. High scorers on Intellect love to play with ideas. They are open-minded to new and unusual ideas, and like to debate intellectual issues. They enjoy riddles, puzzles, and brain teasers. Low scorers on Intellect prefer dealing with either people or things rather than ideas. They regard intellectual exercises as a waste of time. Intellect should not be equated with intelligence. Intellect is an intellectual style, not an intellectual ability, although high scorers on Intellect score slightly higher than low-Intellect individuals on standardized intelligence tests. Your level of intellect is $flev[17].

Liberalism. Psychological liberalism refers to a readiness to challenge authority, convention, and traditional values. In its most extreme form, psychological liberalism can even represent outright hostility toward rules, sympathy for law-breakers, and love of ambiguity, chaos, and disorder. Psychological conservatives prefer the security and stability brought by conformity to tradition. Psychological liberalism and conservatism are not identical to political affiliation, but certainly incline individuals toward certain political parties. Your level of liberalism is $flev[18]. "


____________________


So where is the conflict coming from if we are all roughly alike in this way? I think the friction IS a result of temperament as well as what you guys are valuing.

Between Gamma and Amelie it's these facets:

(from Conscientiousness)
"Orderliness. Persons with high scores on orderliness are well-organized. They like to live according to routines and schedules. They keep lists and make plans. Low scorers tend to be disorganized and scattered. Your level of orderliness is $flev[26]. "

vs

(again from Openness)
"Emotionality. Persons high on Emotionality have good access to and awareness of their own feelings. Low scorers are less aware of their feelings and tend not to express their emotions openly. "

"Liberalism. Psychological liberalism refers to a readiness to challenge authority, convention, and traditional values. In its most extreme form, psychological liberalism can even represent outright hostility toward rules, sympathy for law-breakers, and love of ambiguity, chaos, and disorder. Psychological conservatives prefer the security and stability brought by conformity to tradition. Psychological liberalism and conservatism are not identical to political affiliation, but certainly incline individuals toward certain political parties."

Gamma and Amelie are both high in Emotionality but Gamma is putting effort into regulating his emotions whereas Amelie is using them as her primary scum hunting tool. Gamma is more orderly and is experiencing disgust toward Amelie's scattered reads and posts. Amelie is listening to her emotions which are informing her correctly that Gamma has a higher propensity for authoritarianism than her (though in the big picture Gamma is far from authoritarian) and is running with the hostility that this triggers as these feelings are her way of tracking scum. Gamma does not value his Emotionality for scum hunting and is also attempting to incorporate Order along with his Openness. Amelie values mostly her Emotionality for scum hunting and is either actively or passively attacking signs of Order as a result of her Liberalism.

Then Amelie and Grendel:

(from Conscientiousness again)
"Cautiousness. Cautiousness describes the disposition to think through possibilities before acting. High scorers on the Cautiousness scale take their time when making decisions. Low scorers often say or do first thing that comes to mind without deliberating alternatives and the probable consequences of those alternatives."

+

(same stuff from Openness)
"Liberalism. Psychological liberalism refers to a readiness to challenge authority, convention, and traditional values. In its most extreme form, psychological liberalism can even represent outright hostility toward rules, sympathy for law-breakers, and love of ambiguity, chaos, and disorder. Psychological conservatives prefer the security and stability brought by conformity to tradition. Psychological liberalism and conservatism are not identical to political affiliation, but certainly incline individuals toward certain political parties. "

"Emotionality. Persons high on Emotionality have good access to and awareness of their own feelings. Low scorers are less aware of their feelings and tend not to express their emotions openly."

Similar story but not quite the same. Grendel IS in his mid 20s so his conscientiousness may have increased over time, which Amelie will subconsciously perceive as a propensity for authoritarianism and because she is following her emotions she will act with hostility. Even more, I think that kind of like Gamma and his slight inclination for Order, Grendel is built to incorporate some Cautiousness alongside his Openness. I think Grendel chooses his words carefully. Therefore it makes sense that Amelie would experience hostility toward Grendel on some level because of his Cautiousness especially since that is actually a valid scum tell in many instances.


____________

Ref http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/j/5 ... tions.html

[Gamma Emerald]

@NPOM and the other anti-s: still this personality stuff is bullshit?

[Gamma Emerald]

@NPOM and the other anti-s: still think this personality stuff is bullshit?

EBWOP

[Momrangal]

Well it looks like you're both in your early 20s so scratch that theory out.

Replace chronological age with mafia age. There is an unnatural amount if irration and useage of energy trying to keep up with the newer generation of mafia

Including an irritation at you for dropping amelie down to null- maybe scum

[Grendel]

My earlier question was related to something you said in this game about scum choosing not to associate with partners that are doing well.

Are you talking about when i said that only one scum was on the No Power wagon?

I didnt see anything else similar to what you thought i was saying.

[Momrangal]

VOTE: Trendall

I prefer OWER over Trendall especially if Lunar is scum here. The fact that he doesn't mind OWER and Trendall but votes Trendalls smaller wagon over OWERS larger wagon at the time (by a vote or two) feels like he's trying to push a CW to a possible partner only to leave himself open to bus him towards the end to reduce the association between the two of them.

[Momrangal]

VOTE: Lunar,

[Grendel]

Similar story but not quite the same. Grendel IS in his mid 20s so his conscientiousness may have increased over time, which Amelie will subconsciously perceive as a propensity for authoritarianism and because she is following her emotions she will act with hostility.

Even more, I think that kind of like Gamma and his slight inclination for Order, Grendel is built to incorporate some Cautiousness alongside his Openness. I think Grendel chooses his words carefully. Therefore it makes sense that Amelie would experience hostility toward Grendel on some level because of his Cautiousness especially since that is actually a valid scum tell in many instances.

____________

Ref http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/j/5 ... tions.html

Yeah, I'd say one or more players call me out as being too cautious in about every game i've played in these days. I also agree that Amilie is predisposed to wanna scum read me in most instances based off play style alone. I feel thats obvious since she made a point of saying how every post i make looks scum motivated to her. Which is why i've not really seen her reads on my slot as a meaningful way to sort her.

[Momrangal]

Grendel, how do you feel about Lunar stating he doesn't mind offing OWER and Trendall yet choosing the smaller wagon betwen the two?

[Momrangal]

You recently said you reviewed my posting and thought me town. Then soon after I moved you to my scum reads and this post followed.
Can you talk to me about how you are thinking?

That isn’t an accurate representation of the timeline
I feel like it’s hard to parse out what factors into your reads so they come across as baseless and random

Amelie is a bit disorganized but, she posts stream of thought posts in the attempt or organize and communicate her thoughts and ideas which I maintain is difficult for newer scum to do. It looks like to me that her mind is moving much faster than she is able to get down on paper and it does show that she is trying to solve a puzzle vs trying to manipulate the situation to make it look like she is solving a puzzle.