Mini Theme 2182 - Legends of the Hidden Temple III - Over!

[SirCakez]

And like, how am I “mad” about your read on me? It honestly makes perfect sense you’d push something like it, it’s just god-awful.

To me it all looks like this is pulled out of your ass based on my SR because you had literally not mentioned any sort of SR on me prior

[Gamma Emerald]

Stand by.

[lilith2013]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

welcome back. why does that implicate two scums instead of just one? you should try to remember your reasoning for vp and let's talk.

I thought I recalled both of them saying that the pool was all town, which feels like a pretty easy out to not sort each other. Just went back through VP’s posts and he was actually doing some light shading at gamma towards the beginning of the day that didn’t really seem to go anywhere, then only joined the noraa wagon after she had turned on him and was being wagoned (and his desire for a gamma elim disappeared around the same time).

[lilith2013]

That’s why I asked him that question. I also couldn’t find posts explaining a scumread on gamma so like why was he voting gamma over noraa at that point?

Was this about VP? Because VP definitely put out a lot of stuff on me, though I can also see why you feel this way based on a post I'm working on covering whether people are looking for scummy behaviors or scum motivation, and VP trends hard towards the former.

see above - I found some posts that had some shade towards you but it was really not obvious to me then or during my review just now that he was scumreading you hard enough to vote you over noraa at that time. I’m not sure I even saw him mention you during the period he was calling noraa scummy, but he kept his vote on you for way longer than I would have expected from his posts

[lilith2013]

I think VP’s response to the agar wagon is equally as damning as gamma/agar interactions (like a show of resistance and then..... no defense of agar against cakes’ case), I think pooky is probably town for the lolchallenge but I don’t really care to have him in endgame or whatever it’s called now, I don’t really have a strong preference between gamma and VP being eliminated because they’re both probably scum. the end

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: Nice try, asshole.

Cakez is scum

Lim Cakez after I die pls

After this challenge ends someone should challenge the Red Jaguars
I think they’re both scum

Cakez+lilith

After this challenge ends someone should challenge the Red Jaguars
I think they’re both scum

How are you coming to that conclusion?

Cakez Noraa read is bad
Lilith feels like she’s promoting TTvTT conflict

Hehe quote wall go brrrrrrrr

All of these I had put into the team PT before, and I have not edited down anything I initially wrote, so you can see my full thought process. I have, however, added in editorial notes on things where I wanted to comment on how they aged, or to expand a point I thought seemed barren.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: gamma

The lilith reaching was bad, but at least it was early stage stuff that could be town if you squint enough. Trying to frame Noraa & I talking in the PT about the game as me pulling one over on her is actively scummy (not to mention, demeaning to Noraa.)

Second, if I was scum, I wouldn't be transparent with you at all. You're not exactly in control of the game gamma, nor would I be worried about you if I was scum.

I love how pooky claims a) I'm terrible at mafia because I lost a single game to Noraa, and b) I'm also masterminding control over Noraa because she is a poor helpless little girl.

Gamma sheeping that nonsense is scummy.

I don’t like VP playing both sides on this. I’m not hell-bent on him being scum but I think he has a helluva better chance compared to Pooky. He makes solid points, but the vibes in this are all wrong. I’m not trying to portray Noraa as a damsel in distress, but his reaction to her talking about her D1 lim frequency was directly intending to turn her against our pair, at least that’s my sense. It’s not conclusive but it’s the strongest point I think exists on anyone in the pool. (I think this still holds atp)

I'm just getting a gut vibe check on him that says town

Esp from our PT posting where he was Uber excited that we both rolled town. Idk. Could be faked but I actually buy it

I trust this.

Gamma's insistence on the townread to the point of a self-vote feels very fucking weird.

The thing is, Noraa was attacking my read stability on her saying I never hold my townread of her. That’s literally incorrect, but in order to prove my motives I self-voted with the intent to prove “I am town, and I mean it with this read”.

Beginning to Page 9

Okay, I'm here, HAI!

Has anyone played previous iterations of Hidden Temple?

I have not.


Dang, Pooky pulling no punches with a challenge on Page 4. Seems a bit early, no?

Vp and I've been talking in the pt and I think he's pretty townie and if I had to gun to head, I'd say he's town.

If y'all are both town, why hideaway in your PT?

After this challenge ends someone should challenge the Red Jaguars
I think they’re both scum

Why? (I think I caught your answer as I read further, but anything to add?)

I need Starbuck/AGar to post more so I can read them

Apologies, I'm here! Work has been dumb AF this week.

like you could make that happen

if gamma is scum, ur 90% a buddy.

How so? What's the connection that you see?

Lilith feels like she’s promoting TTvTT conflict

Your partner started a challenge on like page 3....

+1

gamma is way too full of crap this game to be town

I've been feeling the similarly as I've been reading through, but then again, he's fooled me once before. I'm keeping my eye on him.

also can you guys please shut the fuck up and calm down and stop spamposting irrelvant contentless bullshit posts

you're going to cause mass replacements when people who went to bed early tonight wake up with a dozen or more pages to read

Seriously, thank you.

And here comes Reck with the spicy hot takes on Page 8.

“Scum or liability” is the lazy/bad way to read Pooky

What is the correct take on it?

I was wondering the same.

Seems town.

About Pooky, I said this at some point, but he pretty much seems like he does his own thing as town for the most part. He seems hard to reason with as town, it’s like he has this tough outer shell that seems unpierceable. That kinda seems to be the sense I’m getting here, but I’m not going to fool myself into thinking I know everything here. But I’d like SOMEONE to supply a second opinion on whether that seems like the vibe coming from Pooky this game.

pooky’s posting looks more like what I’d expect from town!him (when he was talking about how VP was pushing him, that felt like him screaming about datisi in micro 960). I feel like I’m pretty meh about the rest of the pool. It’s hard to pin gamma and noraa because I feel like the majority of my impression of their posting is yelling at each other and I don’t think their argument should be considered AI particularly. I don’t have a good grasp on how they’re approaching the game.

How well do Noraa and VP know each other? They both seem very trusting of the other when I think town would be more suspicious/paranoid of early mutual townreads. Noraa is suspicious of gamma townreading her (a trait I generally consider towny), but why isn’t she paranoid of VP?

also just an apology, work is a hot mess. I’m trying to majorly limit screen time (ie visit ms like once per day) because my eyes are screaming for mercy. I have like... 5 more hours of work left and then can try to pop back in, but this is basically how it’s going to be for the foreseeable future.

I don’t hate this post. Asks some good questions actually.

SirCakez
lilith2013
Starbuck
AGar
xRECKONERx
notscience
The Bulge

^ this list of people

what are your reads on the players on the table right now? how about the 8 of us talk about this. we don't need to talk about anyone who you can't vote for today. that will clutter this up and distract. just the people on the table.

Not entirely a fan of this. While the other 8 can’t be limmed, focusing on the current 4 on the table is failing to make the most of this situation, and seems like the level 0 scum play.

How well do Noraa and VP know each other? They both seem very trusting of the other when I think town would be more suspicious/paranoid of early mutual townreads. Noraa is suspicious of gamma townreading her (a trait I generally consider towny), but why isn’t she paranoid of VP?

I have been concerned with VP before but it has never been voiced in thread.

For the most part tho, I still pretty solidly believe that VP is town.

No, we don't know each other too well.

I think he's town cuz I agree with most of what he says. That is he says stuff and I agree. Not I say stuff and he agrees.
And overall, I see town saying what he says more often than scum.
He also had one pretty town post in the hood that I'll pull out if needed and with his permission ofc.

So what, you voiced it in the PT? Where he can see that and adjust his play to fit your expectations?
Also, I don’t think “I agree with X” is a great reason for a townread most of the time. Mirror tell is valid, but I don’t think mirror tell works if the sensibilities of one of the persons is exposed.

We made a deal in our PT to trust each other for now and reassess as needed. I'm ok with that deal for a day and I'm not gonna be convinced to yeet Noraa unless there is something truly compelling there.

For reference, here is what I actually said about the deal noraa proposed.

"I'm ok with that deal for a day"

You chucklefucks misrepping it like I gave Noraa a free pass forever so she'd be "naive" and never scum read me (which reads extremely misogynistic to me) can just stop.

How the fuck is that misogynistic? My read on your relationship has nothing to do with gender, is has to do with who has done what.
Noraa expressed an emotional vulnerability, and you used that to direct her against my pair. What about that is based in gender????

This challenge thing is really frustrating me because I feel like it's making it hard to scumhunt outside the given pool

It isn’t if you TRY.

Unrelated question: if Pooky hadn't challenged, which two teams would you send into a challenge rn?

Red Jaguars and Blue Barracudas. I don’t feel good about Cakez or AGar rn, and Starbuck and Lilith aren’t doing much.
After this was originally written, I also think Starbuck has a good chance to be scum. She’s the one I called out earlier with post 563. Her laser focus on me and Noraa at the expense of any real evaluation of VP or Pooky reads like scum putting together a TvT gamestate.

It's interesting because there's a Gamma/Noraa 1v1 and a Pooky/Baltar 1v1 happening. I feel like I've sorted the first, but I'm not sure about the 2nd.

I’m not interested in 1v1ing Noraa, though. I think Baltar is more likely scum in that pair.

Its great that Starbuck is throwing shade at so many people yet not voting anyone.

The fact that she decides that basically pooky and vp don't exist and the whole choice is between gamma and I is interesting as well.

She also seems to have a thing for pocketing gamma.

I agree her opting to set Pooky and VP aside is not great. She said she doesn’t have a strong opinion on those two but there’s no effort to fix that.

Oh VPB, this Gamma case in 395. You talk about Gamma speaking about you and Noraa hiding away in the PT, but what about Pooky who originally brought that subject to the table in the first place? If Gamma is scummy for it, is Pooky? Why vote Gamma and not Pooky?

Because at least pooky was presenting it as an original idea. I think his point was bad (which I explained why later), but I can see town motivation in trying to pressure. Gamma however is just repeating it without thinking about the validity of what is being said, presumably because he thinks it's an easy way to score points on me. That's actively scummy behavior. As is trying to say lilith is scum over an RVS comment. As is the woe is me self voting. Etc

The self vote wasn’t a “woe is me” deal at all. I essentially was saying “you don’t know me” there, since Noraa was acting like she had a lock on the situation when she was arguing things that just weren’t true. Also, just because I think Pooky’s points are solid doesn’t mean that’s all I’m working off of in my read on you.

I'm saying your reaction to Noraa proposing a trust deal to you is suspicious given that she literally just snowed you for a scumwin.

Your framing of that game is inaccurate, but anyhow...

My point is, what makes you think I haven't improved my ability to read noraa now that I've had more experience playing with her? Further, I stated how I see it as advantageous to my ability to assess her alignment.

You keep saying she's the victim here, but also I'm getting snowed and duped by her or whatever. You see how this argument is illogical, right?

How is he framing it inaccurately? I'm listening.
Also, the point he's making is you were snowed by Noraa

previously

, so your willingness to trust her

now

seems scum-motivated. I don't see how one ongoing game can change the direction of that so much.

No post really goes with this, but I’m feeling slightly town about Bulge. He seems to be asking decent questions. I also like notsci’s approach to me specifically, and his effort at making something of today seems legit, so I’m good locktowning that pair rn

hes probly green cuz u want to yeet him

Anyhow, let's move ahead with this phase. It's been a gigantic waste brought to you by pooky.

Under no circumstances should he be allowed to challenge for the rest of the game. If it's me today, that's fine and it will reinforce my point that town needs to get rid of pooky asap to have a shot at winning.

People should start voting so we can move this challenge to a conclusion and real challenges can begin.

I’m only okay with a VP or Pooky yeet atp. Because beyond the fact that I just generally feel like Noraa is town, I also feel like scum very much want to focus on me and Noraa and put us against each other. So I don’t believe Noraa is scum here, ever. Pooky’s been pretty trustworthy, he breached a few lines I wish he wouldn’t have but w/e, those are nitpicks. I also don’t like how everyone seems to have dashed to call him bad when I think his early challenge move was fine in the long-term. Meanwhile I feel like VP has tried to pocket Noraa and then attempted to steal the moral high ground when called out on it. His handling of Noraa is oddly and unjustifiably off-color from how I’d expect him to handle her following losing to her showing in MafiaSunny. I’m not confident he’s scum in general but he’s the best shot in the limpool imo

Some summaries on how I feel about the people outside the pool (since my thoughts within the pool seem covered sufficiently by the last part of the quote wall, though to quantify alongside these, myself and Noraa are Town, Pooky is Leantown, and VP is Leanscum):
SirCakez: he seems content to let town destroy itself with minimal fuel added to the fire by him. He has not bothered to bat an eyelash at any of the non-pool players, which is scummy and also absolutely wasteful behavior. I also think his reads on me and Noraa are just awful for any situation, not just when we’re put into the arena like this. And this is the SOMEONE I spoke of just now. Scum.
Lilith: I still want more from but she had 1 post I actually liked a fair amount. She’s asking questions I’m not sure scum would want to ask. Nulltown.
Starbuck: she initially captured my mind with her thought-out quote walls but my heart didn’t buy it and my heart was validated when she wrote off Pooky vs. VP in favor of fueling the non-existent Gamma vs. Noraa fire. She has not said a single word on that since initially calling them hard-to-read. Scum.
AGar: I’m not impressed by what he’s been doing, but it’s kinda hard to articulate and is probably partially OMGUS. I wouldn’t axe him now but wouldn’t stick my neck out for him. Leanscum.
UT: he has not really impressed me with what he’s been doing in the main thread, but I’m willing to trust Reck’s read on UT for now. Nullscum.
Reck: I’m not sensing any misleading from Reck here, and he’s been pretty decent in his attempts to play the game. But I’m not entirely sold on him yet. Leantown.
Notscience: between his efforts to make something of today and the vibes his reads give me, I trust him completely. Town.
The Bulge: I want to see more from him but I think he has some diamonds in the rough. Nulltown.

I wouldn't word it the same but I agree with the vibe of how Noraa is perceiving Cakez
I won't call myself good at reading Cakez but he has patterns of behavior I'm not sure he's entirely aware of and able to control yet.

Doesn't take a cabd to catch a cakez.

my read on this is that she's trying to give scumbuddies cover to bus. I don't really see a reason to melt down like this otherwise. I guess she could just be starting to lose her cool, but there really isn't that much pressure, so that seems less likely to me

Maybe
I still think VP is the person I can really see scum motivation in, rather than just saying "this looks scummy" within the pool
Imo a lot of people are doing this lazy "it's scummy so it's gotta come from scum" way of reading things
But for me I know which scumreads of mine (AGar, UT) are because I think they've acted scummy, and which scumreads (Starbuck, Cakez, VP) actually seem like they have scum motivation for what they've been doing. And I want to push those who seem like they actually have scum motivation first.

SirCakez: he seems content to let town destroy itself with minimal fuel added to the fire by him. He has not bothered to bat an eyelash at any of the non-pool players, which is scummy and also absolutely wasteful behavior. I also think his reads on me and Noraa are just awful for any situation, not just when we’re put into the arena like this. And this is the SOMEONE I spoke of just now. Scum.

Probably the best reasoning I can cite at this moment

Ok Boomer Take #1: Providing observations on a set of players when asked is not "sussing" or "shading" all of those players just because it does not feature a fucking glowing "this person is town omg!" review. Jesus fucking christ, I literally said that one of the players is "a player". The other I provided a candid observation with no fucking indication of a lean. I literally said I wanted to yeet one player in that post. One. Not two, not three.... I swear to christ reading comprehension cannot be this difficult.

How is what you described from Cakez not yeetworthy?

Ok Boomer Take #1: Providing observations on a set of players when asked is not "sussing" or "shading" all of those players just because it does not feature a fucking glowing "this person is town omg!" review. Jesus fucking christ, I literally said that one of the players is "a player". The other I provided a candid observation with no fucking indication of a lean. I literally said I wanted to yeet one player in that post. One. Not two, not three.... I swear to christ reading comprehension cannot be this difficult.

How is what you described from Cakez not yeetworthy?

Because I've seen both alignments do it in my

long and storied

lengthy and pathetic career on this site? I don't find it indicative of anything - it's something he's doing and not only have a few people intimated that he has a habit along these lines regardless of what alignment he has, if he's doing it as scum, he needs either a hard shift from the town writ large to start picking up the things he's floating and running with or he'll need an entire playstyle shift to something more active.

It’s a scummy way to play tho. How does “he’s floating shit across and seeing what sticks” not sound like a scum tactic? That’s a great way to avoid taking hard stances that might backfire Id think.

Since you freaks all decided to run me up in <three hours I think it’s imperative I actually bat back some of this stupidity. So I’ll start with calling out AGar’s posting and how it doesn’t really handle me like a partner to him.

Ok, one, jesus fuck there's 17 pages.

Two, lol@page4 challenge

Three, christ half of this shit is useless nonsense.

But yeah this play is a huge gambit if he is scum and I'm not sure scum!pooky willingly puts himself on the chopping block just like that.

Why not? It's not actually as big of a gambit as people are making it out to be.

@Pooky

How much playing experience do you have with Noraa and Gamma, specifically?

Just take the fucking townread goddamn it!!!!!!

You bitch and moan about how I read you wrong and yet when I townread you you attack me. And I find it ridiculous you think I can’t find you obvtown when you yourself boast about your towniness at every turn. You’re not genuinely interacting with me, you’re being contrarian!!!!!!!!

These posts are weird. Gamma's entire reaction to Noraa pushing back on a townread is very weird.

Self-vote in 280. Tech. When the fuck did AtE self-votes become meta? God dammit.

@VPB

what's with the insistence on trying to get Reck/UT to parse each other in particular?

AGar calls my posts weird, without actually defining them as scummy. I think that seem anti-partnery if you consider scum would have a better handle on why their partners might look suspicious. I 100% subscribe to the belief that scum are able to scumread their partners easier because they can see the scum motivation more plainly. I have other thoughts but they fit the next post better imo.

What didn’t you like about gammas reaction agar

The whole insistence that Noraa accept his Day 1 Page, like, 5? townread on her, like if she pushed back it invalidated that he felt she was town or something, and then getting very personal when it was pushed back on and it wasn't centered on the fact that she was scumreading him. It was a lot of words about someone not trusting a townread, which felt very off. At this point I lean a decent bit town on Noraa based on the whole exchange, and Gamma's insistence on the townread to the point of a self-vote feels very fucking weird.

One thing AGar never established was a legitimate reason me being

weird

equals me being

scum

. AGar came up with other points, fine. But this point never had that line of logic established. Given it’s the base of his scumread on me, I think it’s a pretty crap read overall.

SirCakez
lilith2013
Starbuck
AGar
xRECKONERx
notscience
The Bulge

^ this list of people

what are your reads on the players on the table right now? how about the 8 of us talk about this. we don't need to talk about anyone who you can't vote for today. that will clutter this up and distract. just the people on the table.

Townlean Noraa. (posts like 147, 232). I don't love the reasoning for townPooky she gives in 236 and still want a follow up on why, but I don't find that scummy.

Scumlean GE. I really really hate his insistence that the 4 up for yeeting shut up because it creates a situation where 8 of us talk to each other about 4 people who are interacting in a limited way and then with PTs and daytalk allows for a lot of lurking and coordination. I still find his whole thing about Noraa pushing back on a townread from him very very awkward and just there's a thing about it that doesn't sit right with me - it's setting off gut pangs.

Null on VPB and Pooky for two different reasons.

VPB's early posting was kinda fluffy but the game was generally trash so it didn't feel like there was anything he was particularly dodging. Lately he's been mostly :goodposting:. I don't love the deal made, but that's just me in general and tbf I'm not a party to that so whatever. If we come to a point where it's suddenly obvious Noraa or VPB is scum and we can't get the other to vote to yeet because of a dumb deal, we'll burn that bridge then.

Pooky's early challenge set off a few gambit bells with me but then his follow up has been... the opposite of what I would call smart scum posting if he was gambitting.

How about this: how many people who are not in the challenge are using their PTs to talk about the game?

Not really right now. I will likely spew some shit in there later because I find the PT useful in spots generally.

2) Ok then propose a logical reason for why anyone would hide something in the PT that they are not sharing with the rest of us.

The same reason any neighborhood is worthwhile - you can discuss stuff in a limited one on one environment to bounce shit off of someone, a second set of eyes - you don't have to trust them 100% but it can help shit out. You can ask your partner their direct opinion on a topic to get a read on them. You can just work through thoughts. Plenty of people keep notes PTs. It's at worst a notes PT with another voice in there. Besides, if your partner is keeping secrets in the PT you feel should be shared with the town... you can just fucking share that info and put that badge on your partner.

A few things:

1. Here AGar pushes me for my insistence on staying quiet to let others have a chance to talk. I really find it absurd he has such a problem with it, when the move was pretty plainly benign especially in context. I would also like to mention I was having concerns over the narrative being spun by VP and Noraa while I was staying quiet. Does that seem like something scum with 3 buddies would have to agonize over? No, because they can just have one or more buddies counter that in their stead. In addition, where’s the actual scum motivation in what I did? Once again AGar fails to front any meaningful evidence against me, just passing off bad feelings as a reason for a scumread. I think should re-read the game with a more critical eye to this type of read, since I recalled s lot of this poor play around this time.
   
2. The level of depth AGar’s defense of using neighborhoods reached seems excessive if Pooky is scum. They very likely could have conferred on that in the scum private thread, in which case any talk on that would be shorter since the full degree isn’t needed. So I consider that an anti-partner tell for Pooky.
   
3. AGar’s reads on VP and Pooky here, but especially VP, have an issue when compared to a later post.

Of the four, I find Gamma's sustained behavior most likely to come from scum

okay but I don't think it's gonna happen

What convinces you Gamma *shouldn't* eat the yeet?

@VPB

The shift in 953 & 955 is throwing me a bit of a loop - care to help me out here? 953 seems to insinuate you would like a Gamma yeet but the vote 2 posts later obviously strays in a different direction.

959 seems to miss the entire point of what UT brought up in 946 wrt reading other players. I'm unsurprised.

979

Narrator: He did, in fact, misremember.

@Reck

re: 981 - Pooky's challenge was anti-town but do you see anything in the followup to indicate scum? Or are you just finding the pool largely homogenous and that's enough to sort out among the four?

If you're not sharing, this picture means nothing to me.

For just a short drive down to St. Yeet, you too could have some of these delicious cookies.

And in 1016, we can see the wild scum circle back to the very thing that was brought up in 946, oblivious to the fact itself.

1024 bad, 1033 ignores basic common sense.

re:1038

1. Gamma
2. Pooky
3. Noraa
4. VPB

My first concern is how AGar’s immediate reaction to UT calling my lim unlikely was to falsely read that as UT saying he wasn’t interested in it. AGar also nudges a few people towards me here. re: 1016 I may have had a similar topic to UT but we were literally saying opposite things, in essence. UT was saying that forming reads on the 8 outside the first challenge would depend on flips, when I was saying it didn’t. It helps, perhaps, but you don’t wait for a flip to form reads on ~67% of the playerlist in any other game.
Now to steer from defense into offense. I called out the fact AGar had Pooky and VP as nulls before as an issue, and this is why. Why is VP below Noraa here? If it was because of Noraa being a less worthwhile player to keep in the game, why not have Pooky below her too? And honestly looking back at AGar’s Noraa mentions specifically, there’s no vibe of wanting her out ever, besides 943 I guess where AGar says he “loathes Noraa’s post”. In that same post, however, he says VP “has been the most logically consistent”. I don’t see why that deserves being put above your actual townread in the challenge. Because of this I think AGar was trying to avoid putting himself in a position where he’d be called to bus VP.

Just checking in to remind everyone that Noraa is town and we should vote out the guy who put us in a four town lolchallenge thanks

Feels like you could've pushed harder on this than "oh let's just yeet any of these four IDGAF"

---
Bye noraa.
---

his read on what was going on yesterday was better than mine so I think he probably has a better handle on what's going on than I do

the high degree of confidence he had in his read(s) could be because he's scum, but I'm choosing to believe that it's because he has better reads than I do at this time

This feels like an odd turn from yesterday where you felt fairly confident and willing to take a driver's seat. You had one wrong read and you're willing to do a complete 180?

I don't think I'd want to see the iguanas in another challenge. definitely not any time soon.

Por que no?

For example, Agar called noraa towny for her argument with gamma when they were getting equally emotional and imo the argument should have been NAI for both sides, and as a result of that basically crossed her off his elimination list. What difference were you seeing there that made you think noraa was town but not gamma? (@agar)

I townread noraa based off of tone/motivation. I said nothing about her side of the argument being towny, and I also already told you exactly what I did find town about her early in the game, none of which had to do with her argument. I thought the argument was dumb and toxic, but I thought the thing that sparked it - GE's whinging over her reaction to a

townread

- was drawing at straws to try and just be saying something about the four up for the yeet. Everything after the initial volley of posts was pretty unindicative of anything, with a slight undertone of "GE is still protesting this way too much," and didn't really color my reads at all.

---

GE is still scum y'all.
One of UT or Reck has it over on the other. Book it.
Notty's nibbling a lot and picking on post counts and justifying it with "gut". Fucking lol.

I think all of the accusations at the bottom of this post are on town. Nothing about how UT and Reck are playing reads as scum snowing town in either direction, they have some level of synchronization but not a full degree of it, and I think, similar to how I read hydras, that level of de-sync is a towntell. Notsci has also seemed pretty legit all game. I’ll let you folks view this however you want but that little closer reads like bad news to me.
And let’s note AGar is back to having never wanted Noraa eliminated here despite having plainly ranked VP below her in desire to yeet. I think that solidifies how I perceive it in terms of what it means for VP.

It’s a scummy way to play tho. How does “he’s floating shit across and seeing what sticks” not sound like a scum tactic? That’s a great way to avoid taking hard stances that might backfire Id think.

There's merit to that but it's also not something I'm wanting to yeet over. Again - he'd need something else to happen to help him along in this setup. I also think he's been pretty consistence wrt the challenge and his follow up so I don't think he's doing it as scum rn.

Ok Boomer Take #1: Providing observations on a set of players when asked is not "sussing" or "shading" all of those players just because it does not feature a fucking glowing "this person is town omg!" review. Jesus fucking christ, I literally said that one of the players is "a player". The other I provided a candid observation with no fucking indication of a lean. I literally said I wanted to yeet one player in that post. One. Not two, not three.... I swear to christ reading comprehension cannot be this difficult.

You made the fencesittiest post of all time that would allow you to pivot to literally anyone in the pool and with like 0 evidence of attempts to sort the people you were fencesitting on. Then you made up a reason to pick me as your favored elim.

I wasn't aware calling someone a "player" was giving me the ability to pivot to that person.

I didn't make up a reason - hell, I specifically mentioned in a previous post I was trying to get a grasp on your intentions - you have been background and mostly riding the currents to this point. I was wrong on one item (even though I said your ISO was "mostly" globbing on, not "only" globbing on) but all the same, you made zero attempt to engage anyone else in the pool, immediately voted me with nary a thought to anyone else and did whatever survival instinct said to do and pushed the other wagon forward in order to avoid engaging with Cakez so he can't rip you apart.

My point was and still is that it’s an easy push for agar to make. You’re saying she’s done stuff and I’m wrong- cool, whatever, I don’t remember it and am not really pushing the issue my main point is it’s a weak push from agar

Yes, the infamous "easy push" that has gotten all of *checks notes* 1 other vote and it would need 6 total. Marvelous play. I think y'all are confusing "easy push" with "push I don't like". Which, if y'all don't like it fine but say so and don't just hid behind "oh it's an easy push."

out of the remaining three, yeah I think I would have been the easiest to push if scum!you is just trying to survive, which I think is what UT was saying.

I really think you don't know what an easy push is.

re:

1245 See Boomer Take #1. Also your one point about questioning the townread is correct, and I misremembered exchanges with Notty post-Noraa/GE, but that's literally... *checks notes* your only contribution? Questioning a townread?

I really don’t feel the need to restate things that everyone else has already said when I’m catching up, and there’s only so many things to talk about that haven’t already been talked about

please provide examples of where you’ve contributed unique and new thoughts to this game

The origination of calling out GE's reaction to Noraa - not the argument, but the initial reaction that set off the argument. Followed up in 426 with further elaboration.
Arguiang the efficacy of actually utilizing the PTs we were given as more than just scum hiding their thoughts.
Giving what D1 reads I had on the four that were up to be yeeted
Pushing on VPB a bit for what I read as not entirely consistent reasoning

You can contribute in other ways. You can engage with - wild thought - multiple people. I started this day off questioning posts I found curious from notscience and UT. I spent parts of yesterday imploring that the four who were up to be yeeted not go dark because their interactions would help to build further connections and it was essential they actually participate.

In that vein I think this quote in hindsight seems like projection, because scum!agar has to push me in order to not have to get in a 1v1 with cakes:

Newsflash: I am still the leading candidate to be yeeted and Cakez is still on my ass about things so I don't really think your perception is reality.

Spent 11.5 hours and so far almost every waking minute staring at 600 acres worth of utility maps today. Going to go for a run to reset my brain/create a divide in the day for my own sanity, then I'll deal with some of the garbage in here, but boy do I have some fucking takes.

were you in prodrange before you made this post?

I think it's 72 hours to prod, so no? Not sure why that's relevant at all.

I think AGar’s reasons for not seeing Cakez as scummy here are pretty dodgy. Maybe Cakez needs something more to get him past the finish line, but that doesn’t mean his current course of action is any better. And honestly I don’t even see why Cakez needs something more to get by. I also think Lilith had a good point about AGar not wanting to get into a 1v1 with Cakez.
Another thing is that when I first saw Cakez’s read wall on AGar that also expressed that I was scum with AGar, the points made by Cakez seemed like he was reading things that could go either way on me (scum!AGar interacting with a scumbuddy or a townie), which kinda checked out as fair. Having done my own homework at this point, my mind changes and I feel like Cakez tried to cherry-pick points to make me look worse. I also still hold that Cakez’s interactions with me and Noraa weren’t good. When I add AGar’s dodgy Cakez defense to that I think Cakez is likely scum.

VOTE: VP Baltar
I don’t feel like my early reasons for finding him the scummiest out of the first challenge have been disrupted, and with AGar’s interactions making more sense as partnered with VP than with Pooky I think VP is decidedly the better vote here.
One last thing, no matter who gets voted out we should 100% let Starbuck come back and post content again before this challenge ends. I wasn’t satisfied with her contributions during the first challenge so a runback would solve a lot of my issues with her potentially.

And with this pool who cares about easy pushes
Sometimes scummy people are just scum

while trying to confirm/bust that last question I came across this, which with AGar's scum flip I feel like seems pretty sus
I said before I'd be keeping a watchful eye for this sort of mindset, and I don't think Cakez's has good reason for this
While Cakez's case on AGar ended up solid, I think this mindset allows scum to get away with correct reads that have little reasoning rather than sticking their necks out to justify their reads.

@VP It's also very advantageous to bus in this setup, and I have issues with the case that make me not like it. A lot of his AGar scumread seemed predicated on me being scum with AGar, which makes it a very problematic read ime when I don't think he should have been so confident about that. When I take out the bad reason of being associated with me, I don't see any real reason for Cakez to have SRed AGar. With the promise of a big case on AGar earlier, that seems pretty sketchy. If he thought AGar was scum merely because of the association with me, I think a) that would have shone through earlier and b) he wouldn't have projected as much confidence in that read.

how? it's exactly what I've been saying all game
I think AGar was calling Noraa scummy without actually pushing her
Meanwhile I thought Noraa was acting scummy but was town (and said this in thread)
Not the same thing

Oh-fucking-really? Tell me how your play differs from AGar’s in any significant capacity there
AGar was TOWNREADING Noraa. With that in mind your play looks remarkably similar. Stop trying to gaslight me.

i don't have anything more to add re;Gamma I think the part of the AGar case that talks about him is enough

Except it’s full of crap

And like, what the fuck am I supposed to do? Do you want me to spam a bunch of screamy text posts at VP telling him how much his position stinks? Because I’d rather not. I’ve presented counterpoints the the logic that has been presented against me so far and no one is legitimately engaging with them, they’re all just carrying on like zombies.

Yeah kill that post-haste if you lim me here
Once I flip town Cakez’s actions here are indefensible

UT where the fuck are you rn? You have not thrown out a legitimate reason to vote me, you just casually wagoned me with everyone else, and you haven’t shown your fucking face at all since I starting speaking out against my lim to a large degree. Why shouldn’t I be viewing YOU as scum here? I’m pretty much 100% on Cakez and VP I think is scum because I stopped paying him mind once the first challenge ended but I feel worse on him atp, and when I have scumreads I lapse on pushing for a time those seem to end up right more often than not, but Starbuck could still be wrong and if that is I’d propose you as the potential third for not showing any real care to your actions.

Well yeah I think your progression on me is awful but I have other critiques as well so calling it OMGUS is blowing one factor way out of proportion and I know you love to find the weakest part of a read and hammer away at it in a strawman tactic as scum so you trying to do that just adds to the pile of reasons.

On another note, further reflection on things makes me think Cakez/UT makes more sense than Cakez/Starbuck.

I have CONSISTENTLY scumread Cakez here. But it tracks for Cakez to try to assert I haven't been because his entire play around me has been discrediting, misrepping, and gaslighting me. CAKEZ IS FUCKING SCUM!!!!!!

[Gamma Emerald]

lol guess something changed

Getting put at E-1 in less than 3 hours is what fucking happened to make the change, and what changed is I realized you're all either scum or getting full-on misled here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ithink the trade of me for AGar is fair.

lol guess something changed

anyway, Reck I think it's a fair criticism that I've been absent from the thread. As we both said in the PT, this is a challenge where we're both happy to see literally anyone involved get yeeted so honestly I threw a vote down from whoever had the most votes and checked out.

by his own admission, Gamma looks like an AGar buddy so I don't know why I'm supposed to read the sudden hissy fit when he's at Y-1 as town. Honestly what it looks like to me is that he rolled over expecting to get the rope today (if VP is oh so obvious, why not throw the vote down earlier?) and when it got stuck at Y-1 he thought hey maybe I actually *can* argue my way out of this.

"I don't like THIS vote, it's lazy, it's scum!" is... uh... a take one could have, I guess, especially when it's on someone who isn't gonna get got today and you're sitting at Y-1 with the number 2 option being a scumread. if it were me I'd try to talk me into voting VP instead of Gamma but then again I'm oh so very stupid and need to be taught how to play mafia so I guess my brain just isn't equipped to understand these big brain plays.

Regardless, I think the insistence that I argue to someone I scumread why I'm scumreading them is hilarious. if I want the slot gone, I need to convince enough of everyone *else* to vote for it. "debate me" is useless and I'm not going to engage with it.

When you aren't showing any sign of mental engagement in your gameplay, my first inclination of response is to whack you upside the head with how brainless you're being. VP and Cakez I think are scum and irreconcilably so, and Reck and lilith have expressed some sort of reason to be on me, though they have NOT defined why the fuck they're okay leaving me at E-1 when Starbuck still needs to actually provide real fucking content (or get replaced and let the replacement do that). You, meanwhile, have no immediately established reason for being on me and seem to have a blase attitude towards my lim so that earns you a verbal bitch-slap.
As for my previous thinking that I looked like an AGar buddy, I didn't really think that to the letter. My ACTUAL THOUGHT was that the things Cakez presented looked reasonably like they could be seen as both AGar interacting with a buddy or a townie. When I was put at E-1 so fast, I decided to try and hack away at my wagon by looking at AGar's interactions with me myself and pointing that out, and when I went to do that I found that

my own research

painted a different story from what Cakez tried to present. With that I totally soured to the idea of my imminent demise, because I knew the champion of it was a fucking snake.
And now that you've actually TALKED on your feelings about me a little, I'll try to explain why I think you should be voting VP. I was going to do it anyway but this bump the importance of it up a bit.

[VP Baltar]

I think a both-scum theory actually fits pretty well with gamma (and also vp to an extent? don't remember exactly) insisting that the pool was all town

welcome back. why does that implicate two scums instead of just one? you should try to remember your reasoning for vp and let's talk.

I thought I recalled both of them saying that the pool was all town, which feels like a pretty easy out to not sort each other. Just went back through VP’s posts and he was actually doing some light shading at gamma towards the beginning of the day that didn’t really seem to go anywhere, then only joined the noraa wagon after she had turned on him and was being wagoned (and his desire for a gamma elim disappeared around the same time).

Are you saying gamma is scum?

[VP Baltar]

Yes, you say we are both scum. That is about asinine as pooky logic.

I, as scum, actively challenged my buddy in a 1v1 following a scum flip.

[notscience]

Baltar still scum Gamma still town

Rabble

[Untrod Tripod]

And now that you've actually TALKED on your feelings about me a little, I'll try to explain why I think you should be voting VP.

unvote

go on

[SirCakez]

Ok I'll concede Gamma was SRing me earlier I didn't remember
That doesn't make him any less scummy

[Untrod Tripod]

Let's at least let him pump that post count up even higher

[SirCakez]

If someone who is not Gamma can convince me on Baltar scum I'd go there

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok I'll concede Gamma was SRing me earlier I didn't remember
That doesn't make him any less scummy

That's a bullshit excuse. How the fuck can you not remember it, I've been super-upfront about it! If you did legitimately forget, that doesn't absolve you of anything, but my inclination is you chose to leave it out because it wouldn't fit your narrative, seeing as that the playstyle you've had this whole game.

[notscience]

If someone who is not Gamma can convince me on Baltar scum I'd go there

Look how easy your wagon is

Now look at mine

Now look back at yours

Now yours could be mine but it’s not.

And that’s bc this isn’t the wagon scum wants to go through and is thus avoiding it like the plague

[notscience]

Granted you could just be scum so that case means fuckall

But I’m going to keep my vote on Baltar because this gamma wagon is stupid

[VP Baltar]

If someone who is not Gamma can convince me on Baltar scum I'd go there

Look how easy your wagon is

Now look at mine

Now look back at yours

Now yours could be mine but it’s not.

And that’s bc this isn’t the wagon scum wants to go through and is thus avoiding it like the plague

Seems like no one is willing to hammer gamma forever, so I'd say the opposite is actually the truth.

I initiated this challenge because I think Cakez made a good case on why gamma was scummy and there is literally no case on me to be made other than "hurr durr, he townread AGar."

I can admit when I'm wrong, so I have nothing to fear from this challenge. I'm willing to bet my life in this game on it. If there were a case made, I'm happy to answer any and all questions about my play. But I think I've been quite transparent all game, and that's why the bull that scum are spitting at me goes nowhere.

I personally go back and forth on gamma. Sometimes I feel like he is townspewing, but things like AGar feinting toward him without commitment and then his squeamishness about this challenge come across as scummy.

Meanwhile, players like notsci/lillith/pooky jab from the sidelines with no actual contribution. If there are scum sitting by happy with the gamestate, it's in that group...too scared to tangle for real, but happy to poke and slink into the background.

[Gamma Emerald]

there is literally no case on me to be made other than "hurr durr, he townread AGar."

oh you can bet your sweet bippies that's nowhere near all I have on you
that's not even a factor for me atm lol

[VP Baltar]

there is literally no case on me to be made other than "hurr durr, he townread AGar."

oh you can bet your sweet bippies that's nowhere near all I have on you
that's not even a factor for me atm lol

This doesn't sound manufactured at all

[notscience]

As I said before, I could very easily dominate the post count and be shoving harder

But I want everyone to be able to play and thus am not

[VP Baltar]

As I said before, I could very easily dominate the post count and be shoving harder

But I want everyone to be able to play and thus am not

You haven't said anything of note literally all game. I couldn't tell you a single thing you've said that I remember. That's how wall paper you've been all game.

Feel free to start playing for real at any point.

[VP Baltar]

Lol guess who are the two jokers in the bus slots on the AGar wagon.

[notscience]

You could just ask the person with a proven track record reading me what my alignment is