JacksonVirgo's Mini Normal Review, December 2020

Ircher · Post Post #25 (ISO) » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:47 am

I gave two options that I would be willing to approve of either. The thing about plain 2-Shot is that's almost as effective as an ungated vanilla cop. It's not quite the same, but being able to do the N3 investigation probably won't make a significant difference as the N1 and N2 investigations would. I expect mass claim to probably happen around Day 3 or 4 as that's pretty standard from what I've seen in mini normals.

I think you can also drop the compulsive requirement on the cop--town will almost always use it anyway. Holstering on using it doesn't really benefit town much.

Ircher · Post Post #26 (ISO) » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:56 am

As far as role pms go:

1) You need result pms for the Vanilla Cop, Cop, and Tracker. You don't have to include them in the role pms, but we do need to see them.
2) Compulsive isn't random in normal games. Please check the normal guidelines section of compulsive (on the wiki) if you still plan to use it.
3) Miller role pm is missing description of macho.
4) Typo: Miller role pm: "If will appear as a member of the Mafia to a Cop." --> If should be you
5) Roleblocker pm should probably say active ability rather than just ability for clarity for newer players.
6) Town role pms should likely have the win conditions listed, especially since the mafia ones do.
7) Nitpick: Most of your role pms use language that imply a player's action will always succeed. You may want to change it to use something like "may attempt to" or "assuming no interference" to clarify that it is possible to be blocked.

ISO · Post Post #27 (ISO) » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:29 am

I think you're missing that JacksonVirgo made it a compulsive novice 2 shot cop because we told them a N2N3 cop would be good, and a Compulsive Novice 2-shot cop is almost equivalent. It's not equivalent though, there's a subtle distinction that a night specific power role can decline to act, in spite of having fewer opportunities to act. Night Specific specifying a range of nights is normal and is what I think is the best fit here. The pitfall with novice compulsive is that it implies the town tracker is perhaps scum tracker, and the mod designing the setup wanted to ensure scum were able to get rewarded for locating the cop early. The pitfall with novice 2-shot is that if the cop makes an accurate assessment they are very likely to survive through night 4, they could holster Night 3 but then get punished when the Miller Enabler they knew nothing about gets killed. It's a very risky and unlikely call to make anyway that would be pretty rarely seen, so novice 2 shot is definitely better than novice 2 shot compulsive, but I like the straight night specific best.

ISO · Post Post #28 (ISO) » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:31 am

The mafia role PMs let you confirm for the game without learning your partners, which is in the family of banned Quagmire stratz

ISO · Post Post #29 (ISO) » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:33 am

Actually maybe you should think about designing that into your tool? Like the membership of the scumteam is a piece of information you could set one time, then the mafia role PMs could automatically print the list, excluding the member receiving the PM. It's something to automate.

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #30 (ISO) » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:22 am

In post 26, Ircher wrote:6) Town role pms should likely have the win conditions listed, especially since the mafia ones do.

I've fixed up the other points but what does this mean exactly?

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #31 (ISO) » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:24 am

In post 29, Isis wrote:Actually maybe you should think about designing that into your tool? Like the membership of the scumteam is a piece of information you could set one time, then the mafia role PMs could automatically print the list, excluding the member receiving the PM. It's something to automate.

Honestly never thought of it but I will definitely add that.

Ircher · Post Post #32 (ISO) » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:50 am

In post 30, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 26, Ircher wrote:6) Town role pms should likely have the win conditions listed, especially since the mafia ones do.
I've fixed up the other points but what does this mean exactly?

Seems I missed the town win conditions being listed when I first looked, so you can disregard this point.

(Also, technically speaking, for both mafia and town, there's the additional requirement that one player of the faction must still be alive, but that's not a huge issue in a mini normal.)

Ircher · Post Post #33 (ISO) » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:57 am

If you repost everything, I can do a final look, and we should be good to go from there.

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #34 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:07 am

Spoiler: Role Cards

Town Informed Macho Cop-Enabler Miller

You are informed that Mafia are informed that there is a Macho Cop-Enabler Miller. You will appear as a member of the Mafia to a Cop. If you are to die, all Cops will lose their ability. You cannot be protected from kills.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Town N2 N3 Cop

You can check on Nights 2 and 3, if your action succeeds you will know if they are a member of the Mafia or not.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Town Tracker

You may check a player each night, if your action succeeds you will see who they visited if anybody.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Town Jailkeeper

You may jailkeep a player each night, if your action succeeds you will protect them from kills but you will role-block your target.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Town Vanilla Townie

You have no abilities outside your voice and your vote.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Mafia 1-Shot Roleblocker

Only once, if your actions succeeds you may choose to roleblock a player. This will stop their active ability if they have one. Your partners are [X] the Mafia 2-shot Vanilla Cop and [Y] the Mafia Informed.

You win when at least one Mafia is alive and all threats to the Mafia are eliminated or when nothing can stop that from happening

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Mafia 2-shot Vanilla Cop

Only twice, if your action succeeds you may check a player to see if they're Vanilla or not. Your partners are [X] the Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker and [Y] the Mafia Informed.

You win when at least one Mafia is alive and all threats to the Mafia are eliminated or when nothing can stop that from happening

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Mafia Informed

You are informed that there is a Macho Cop-Enabler Miller. Your partners are [X] the Mafia 2-shot Vanilla Cop and [Y] the Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker.

You win when at least one Mafia is alive and all threats to the Mafia are eliminated or when nothing can stop that from happening

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Spoiler: Results and Feedback

That should be everything needed? Also if there's discrepencies with the role cards I apologize, I've found a few kinks in my tool that I'm going to be sorting out ASAP ahaha

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #35 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:07 am

Ah feck, I forgot the game and PT links

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #36 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:08 am

Oh and the Novice 2-shot. Gonna redo

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #37 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:13 am

Spoiler: Role Cards Fixed

Town Informed Macho Cop-Enabler Miller

You are informed that Mafia are informed that there is a Macho Cop-Enabler Miller. You will appear as a member of the Mafia to a Cop. If you are to die, all Cops will lose their ability. You cannot be protected from kills.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

The game thread can be found here

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Town N2 N3 Cop

You can check on Nights 2 and 3, if your action succeeds you will know if they are a member of the Mafia or not.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

The game thread can be found here

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Town Tracker

You may check a player each night, if your action succeeds you will see who they visited if anybody.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

The game thread can be found here

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Town Jailkeeper

You may jailkeep a player each night, if your action succeeds you will protect them from kills but you will role-block your target.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

The game thread can be found here

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Town Vanilla Townie

You have no abilities outside your voice and your vote.

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one member of the Town is alive.

The game thread can be found here

Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Mafia 1-Shot Roleblocker

Only once, if your actions succeeds you may choose to roleblock a player. This will stop their active ability if they have one. Your partners are [X] the Mafia 2-shot Vanilla Cop and [Y] the Mafia Informed.

You win when at least one Mafia is alive and all threats to the Mafia are eliminated or when nothing can stop that from happening

The game thread can be found here

The Mafia PT can be found here
Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Mafia Novice 2-shot Vanilla Cop

Only twice, if your action succeeds you may check a player to see if they're Vanilla or not. Your partners are [X] the Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker and [Y] the Mafia Informed.

You win when at least one Mafia is alive and all threats to the Mafia are eliminated or when nothing can stop that from happening

The game thread can be found here

The Mafia PT can be found here
Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Mafia Informed

You are informed that there is a Macho Cop-Enabler Miller. Your partners are [X] the Mafia 2-shot Vanilla Cop and [Y] the Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker.

You win when at least one Mafia is alive and all threats to the Mafia are eliminated or when nothing can stop that from happening

The game thread can be found here

The Mafia PT can be found here
Confirm your role via replying with your role name, alignment and any abilities you have.

Ircher · Post Post #38 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:44 am

The novice 2-Shot Vanilla Cop is missing the information that they cannot use their ability night 1.
You also forgot to add the novice modifier in the other mafia role pms when listing teammates.

Everything else looks good. It should suffice to repost the novice 2-shot vanilla cop role pm.

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #39 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:57 am

Spoiler: Mafia Role Cards

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #40 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:00 am

It has been brought to my attention something that I am sure isn't a thing but I have to ask anyway. Cop-Enabler doesn't affect Vanilla Cop yes?

Ircher · Post Post #41 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:48 am

It shouldn't. A Vanilla Cop Enabler would, but that wouldn't affect normal cops; it's specifically tied to the precise role name.

Ircher · Post Post #42 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:48 am

Looks good to me.
/pass

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #43 (ISO) » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:39 pm

Hype!