Yellowstone

[JacksonVirgo]

where there are 3 masons w/ a mason+, no other TPRs and multiple scum PRs. If that's balanced, then are you trying to tell me that 6 TPRs here is balanced?? As that is what we would have if DGB/JV are town.

I don't think you realise how powerful 3p masons are

[JacksonVirgo]

kes more sense in terms of explaining the no-kill N2,

I’ve already said why this isn’t the case. Noraa/Mark team?

Mark is awfully fencesitty even for someone that’s constantly saying how they think it’s me and DGB all the time

I must be missing where you explain how a no-kill N2 makes more sense - unless you are talking about 3502 where you suggest a cross-kill is possible, but as scum knew that flea was going to target a PGO and die that seems an unlikely NK target for them. If I'm missing another post where you explain this better, please could you link me as I couldn't see it in your ISO when scannning through.

I hadn't given it much thought until infin mentioned it, but just seems so risky for scum!noraa to no-kill n2 as if DGB targets noraa or any other member of the scumteam for that matter then it will seem like a guilty due to the lack of kill other than flea (which is explained by the PGO). Conversely, scum!DGB can use a no-kill n2 to paint a guilty on guillo (as we have seen). Do you have an alternate explanation for this?

1 kill with a claimed PGO is miles more easier to push than a PGO claim with a "confirmed" PGO kill.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why? Maybe they didn't want Vax to be confirmed PGO; maybe they didn't trust Flea to target Vax? I don't know. But with hindsight and Guillotina having flipped town, we can be pretty confident that scum NK'd Flea.

Is this a slip? We know Flea visited Vax as Vax was able to confirm the contents of the picnic basket (after a bit of mod faff), so we know for a fact that Vax's PGO role killed flea. Yes, scum may have cross-targetted flea but this would be functionally the same as a no-kill.

This is confbias dude, that's not a slip

[JacksonVirgo]

And yeah, I'm fence-sitting real hard rn because the DGB/JV solve makes more sense to me, but I would die inside a little bit if I let someone have a free pass for quickhammering D4 if they then turned out to be scum. I just think Noraa is competent enough as a player not to quick hammer by mistake.

My theory is that they wanted to destroy Town's lead, voting who everyone was saying was paired with her so that she can run into LYLO guns blazing. Actually who voted first out of DGB/Noraa? What Town runs into LYLO with a vote.

[JacksonVirgo]

These cases suck ass but I'm really angry because I fucking know jacko is gonna buy it for shit reasons.

See this what I am talking about. This ATE to try and push me towards your agenda

[Marky Mark]

I'm back

And yeah, I'm fence-sitting real hard rn because the DGB/JV solve makes more sense to me, but I would die inside a little bit if I let someone have a free pass for quickhammering D4 if they then turned out to be scum. I just think Noraa is competent enough as a player not to quick hammer by mistake.

I am just going to say this quick. Do you honestly expect all three scum to make a combined gambit N1 and me immediately thrust into claiming it when the chances it goes wrong is GOD LEVEL's higher than chances it succeeds, that and I am generally hateful against Gambits as they fail 9 times out of 10.\

Also what's the difference between DGB/JV and a Noraa/[X] scum-team regarding the N2 kill. What makes it more likely it's the former with the missing kill?

1.) Scum deciding to gambit N1 is exactly what happened in Bending, and led to scum walking the game, so yeah, I can totally see that happening

2.) Ref the N2 no-kill (as I understand it)
->If DGB is scum then no-kill N2 lets her paint a fake guilty on whoever she chooses to RB - so it could be an overall positive for the scumteam
->If Noraa is scum (and DGB town) then if she no-kills N2 and DGB targets ANY scum slot it will look like that slot is guilty - so it is a significant risk to the scumteam
Please come back at me if you think I am misunderstanding this - I am keen to fathom this out as N2 underpinned the narrative for most of the midgame

[Marky Mark]

1 kill with a claimed PGO is miles more easier to push than a PGO claim with a "confirmed" PGO kill.

I can see the logic behind this though

[Marky Mark]

@Mod - if scum had targetted Flea with a NK would that have resolved before flea was able to give their picnic basket to Vax?

[JacksonVirgo]

Please come back at me if you think I am misunderstanding this - I am keen to fathom this out as N2 underpinned the narrative for most of the midgame

As this is more of a WIFOM argument I won't be holding this N2 NK with much weight personally as mech-info > reads > WIFOM statements imo.

Scum could have no-killed/cross-killed to set up three Town eliminations at once. Vax followed by the blocked (Gills), followed by DGB themself which is actually playing out right now to be completely honest.

Why would scum!DGB try and fake a guilty on someone knowing it forces a 1v1 and will likely be yeeted right after?

[Marky Mark]

Scum could have no-killed/cross-killed to set up three Town eliminations at once. Vax followed by the blocked (Gills), followed by DGB themself which is actually playing out right now to be completely honest.

This is true - it would be v high risk, but not imossible tbf

[Noraa]

Jacko is way too tunneled. No point in trying anymore. Everyone else is seeing why DGB is scum except Jacko and that's the final vote we need.

I accept this town loss and I think I've done my best.

I have shown genuine emotion that would not exist in my scum game and I haven't been showy about my anger. Jacko isn't listening and there is no way we win this game unless DGB dies today and then we figure out which of mark and infinity is scum.

[Noraa]

If DGB doesn't die today, this is 100% a town loss and Jacko is dead set on making this a town loss and I have no interest in changing their mind anymore.

[Noraa]

Unless infinity wants to come in and somehow save this game, Jacko is very happy with making us lose.

[Noraa]

We will never be able to get whoever is scum to vote DGB because that puts them in a dire position tomorrow. This is why town needs to block up and kill DGB today and 1/3 of town is Jacko.

We need their fucking vote but they are tunneled to hell and back.

Marky are you willing to vote DGB?

[Noraa]

I'll do this again since Jacko is asleep rn.
VOTE: DGB

Jacko, I 100% guarantee that by the time you wake up, this still won't be hammered. Because DGB is FUCKING SCUM.

Holy mother of god Jacko STOP TUNNELING. WAKE TF UP AND LEND ME YOUR VOTE.

I swear to god I accept this town loss but I am so damn mad because I have been trying so damn hard to obvtown for you but you're just like "eh what? No no this big ass scum bucket is townier"

THIS IS WHY MOM WANTED VAX DEAD. BECAUSE YOU ARE TUNNELED AF. Goddamn.

[Noraa]

You said I keep saying ur stupid but then say I love you.

I hope you know I would've done way more than just call you stupid if not for the fact that you are Jacko. You are so tunneled it looks ridiculous to me. I try so hard to be patient with you but you're just being so stupid about all this. Like how in the fuck is DGB townier than me? DGB is obvscum here and everyone including their damn scum buddy is seeing it. Only you are sitting over here twiddling your thumbs like "no this is conftown"

[Marky Mark]

Talking through the N2 what-ifs was helpful. I still think that DGB/JV as a scumteam does provide a logical explanation for N2 and for the wild abundance of TPRs (6/10 seems like A LOT). I also am somewhat sus of the late JOAT claim from JV that happens to inno the slot that he's suspected of being scum with (fmpov).

That being said, it's hard to look past the noraa quickhammer yesterday and I am uneasy that both noraa/infin are seeing DGB as scum WITHOUT JV as the partner, which as I have explained just does not make sense to me.

I also don't understand Noraa appealing to JV to vote for DGB - a slot that he allegedly has an inno on??

Noraa, if you are town here then I'm sorry, but I think you are a competent enough player not to inadvertently quickhammer and as such it just seems like openwolfing to me. Intent to vote noraa in the next few hours, unless my mind is substantially changed by their responses.

[Noraa]

Yeah ok was hoping we could get 1 scum, 2 town votes on DGB and get that wagon thru but nah, Marky is smart and won't take the bait.

[Noraa]

quick hammering is not exactly scum indicative? Literally no one declared E-2 or E-1. How tf was I supposed to know where the votes were?

[Noraa]

Marky voting me over the quick hammer is hilarious

[Noraa]

Scum team is Marky/DGB.

Its clear as day at this point. Infinity know it. I know it. The only damn townie who doesn't see it is *gestures vaguely in the direction of the one that's sleeping rn*

[Marky Mark]

You're saying I'm scum because? Like if you're actually town here can you not see how sus it is that you are asking JV to vote for a slot that he's (allegedly) inno-ed?!

--pedit: you are a good player and I honestly think town!you would have an awareness of the vote #s. I would buy this maaaybe D1 if there was like 7 votes to keep track of, but I'm pretty sure you can count to 4, especially given the proximity of a votecount to your time of voting.

--pedit2: If you're actually town here then work with me. This, however feels like an attempt to swing an elim on me because it's not looking like you're getting one on DGB any time soon. If DGB is scum here then explain a.) why JV is alive and b.) why he is going to such great lengths to defend her

[Noraa]

Whatever. Jacko when u wake up, vote me. I hope you regret being this tunneled and think twice next time you tunnel me.

This is a town loss because jacko is the unofficial third scum. Unless infinity can convince jacko, this is game over.

[Noraa]

--pedit: you are a good player and I honestly think town!you would have an awareness of the vote #s. I would buy this maaaybe D1 if there was like 7 votes to keep track of, but I'm pretty sure you can count to 4, especially given the proximity of a votecount to your time of voting.

why would I?

[Noraa]

If you're actually town here then work with me. This, however feels like an attempt to swing an elim on me because it's not looking like you're getting one on DGB any time soon. If DGB is scum here then explain a.) why JV is alive and b.) why he is going to such great lengths to defend her

No. If we lim you and not ur scum buddy today, this is a town loss. Jacko is too tunneled to vote DGB and DGB is scum.