Among Us Mafia [GAME OVER]

[DkKoba]

that applies to roles not what room everyone is going to lol

[MURDERCAT]

Also I'm not sure there's an argument to be made the claim helped scum that much either considering cake ended up with me but still didn't kill me

[DkKoba]

if u cant understand the distinction people make psychologically then idk what to tell u

im speaking from the PoV of average mafia player who doesn't assume the mod gave scum every tool in the universe to stop town.

[DkKoba]

Also I'm not sure there's an argument to be made the claim helped scum that much either considering cake ended up with me but still didn't kill me

yeah the claims actually prevent scum from doing multikills because we KNOW they're there for sure. it harmed the alternative win con but prevented extra kill power

[DkKoba]

already explained but town sees: mafia can get extra kills if alone with another town

town reacts: oh fuck we need to claim what room we're going to so scum can't do this for free

[Alisae]

already explained but town sees: mafia can get extra kills if alone with another town

town reacts: oh fuck we need to claim what room we're going to so scum can't do this for free

^^^^

[xRECKONERx]

already explained but town sees: mafia can get extra kills if alone with another town

town reacts: oh fuck we need to claim what room we're going to so scum can't do this for free

or town could use their very powerful brains to assume scum have been balanced to *actually utilize the core mechanic of the game*

you know, i made this exact argument like, first thing this game
it wasn't very hard
i didn't have to overclock the old noggin to get it done
i just applied the tiniest amount of critical thinking

[Alisae]

I actually think that mafia getting an extra kill if alone should have maybe not been public information but I'm not sure.
If its public information and it happens its easy to sus out no?

[DkKoba]

already explained but town sees: mafia can get extra kills if alone with another town

town reacts: oh fuck we need to claim what room we're going to so scum can't do this for free

or town could use their very powerful brains to assume scum have been balanced to *actually utilize the core mechanic of the game*

you know, i made this exact argument like, first thing this game
it wasn't very hard
i didn't have to overclock the old noggin to get it done
i just applied the tiniest amount of critical thinking

well sorry not everyone has a huge brain like yours and knows the exact way the moderator will stop specific types of claims from being beneficial lol

[Alisae]

already explained but town sees: mafia can get extra kills if alone with another town

town reacts: oh fuck we need to claim what room we're going to so scum can't do this for free

or town could use their very powerful brains to assume scum have been balanced to *actually utilize the core mechanic of the game*

you know, i made this exact argument like, first thing this game
it wasn't very hard
i didn't have to overclock the old noggin to get it done
i just applied the tiniest amount of critical thinking

ok great so we spend 1 cycle not really doing anything to find out that going for tasks early is useless
great

thats not that big of a deal to be honest not to mention the discussion generated from that cycle is actually really useful into figure out what alignment wanted what.

[OutWorldER]

keeping the double kill a secret when it's a universal scum mechanic would be kinda dumb, in my opinion. the only reason it should be hidden like that is if it was a scum PR instead of a universal mechanic.

[DkKoba]

I actually think that mafia getting an extra kill if alone should have maybe not been public information but I'm not sure.
If its public information and it happens its easy to sus out no?

best solution. people might still claim rooms because source material but until theres a double kill no one will know. also incorporating venting ? so ppl can join a room later on to speak in it?

[Alisae]

Also Reck why is meta trash?

[Alisae]

keeping the double kill a secret when it's a universal scum mechanic would be kinda dumb, in my opinion. the only reason it should be hidden like that is if it was a scum PR instead of a universal mechanic.

ya I think it woulda been better if it was a scum PR tbh.

[OutWorldER]

Trying to win off solely off mech in a closed setup is setting up town for failure

i still stand by this statement 1000% by the way

[OutWorldER]

that said, I don't think the stumbling's of D1 should detract from what was ultimately a pretty phenomenal town victory.

[Blitzo]

well its not fun when SOMEONE keeps sabotaging them

[DkKoba]

well its not fun when SOMEONE keeps sabotaging them

i think it was a funny game storyline thing that I was stuck on you as soon as i replaced in like fitting that i hardtunnel my task sabotager

[mastina]

For the record: I feel like this game's mechanics may have incentivized the town to claim rooms, but also did have good punishments in place for them doing so. While the double-kill mechanic was one scum may not have been able to use well given the room claim, had the two scum roles designed to counter this strategy not been run up on D3/D4, due to the town's massclaiming of where they'd be, I do think the alt-wincon would've been impossible to achieve. Not hard--utterly impossible.

To put this into standard game mechanics:
If the town has a town doctor and a town cop and a town watcher and the scum have a scum ninja-strongman, the town would normally be punished for massclaiming, because the scum role would eat the town roles alive.
However, if the scum ninia-strongman is eliminated, suddenly, the mechanic used to punish the town from massclaiming is removed, and massclaiming goes from being something harming the town to being something that guarantees a town win.

Similar thing here; the massclaim of location was guaranteed to keep the town from achieving the alt-wincon with the scum PRs alive, but with the scum PRs dead, the town massclaiming guaranteed their ability to fulfill it.

[DkKoba]

For the record: I feel like this game's mechanics may have incentivized the town to claim rooms, but also did have good punishments in place for them doing so. While the double-kill mechanic was one scum may not have been able to use well given the room claim, had the two scum roles designed to counter this strategy not been run up on D3/D4, due to the town's massclaiming of where they'd be, I do think the alt-wincon would've been impossible to achieve. Not hard--utterly impossible.

To put this into standard game mechanics:
If the town has a town doctor and a town cop and a town watcher and the scum have a scum ninja-strongman, the town would normally be punished for massclaiming, because the scum role would eat the town roles alive.
However, if the scum ninia-strongman is eliminated, suddenly, the mechanic used to punish the town from massclaiming is removed, and massclaiming goes from being something harming the town to being something that guarantees a town win.

Similar thing here; the massclaim of location was guaranteed to keep the town from achieving the alt-wincon with the scum PRs alive, but with the scum PRs dead, the town massclaiming guaranteed their ability to fulfill it.

this was my POV. because it was tied to the room, all scum had to do was keep sabotaging it. but then i see there is a "doctor" that can prevent a room from being sabotaged.

[Battle Mage]

great game, incredible performance by SirCakez! Either he has improved a lot, or just really stepped it up for this game. Is there a scummy for outstanding individual scum performance in a horrific scum defeat? If it wasn't for the alt wincon, he maybe has a shot here. And even at the end, hilarious that it's him pushing hardest to help town get over the line. Which incidentally, is why abandoning the alt wincon would have been completely stupid. On the strategy, claiming rooms was key to getting maximum utility out of my role, although we moved in big enough groups that it never really came into play. Happy to survive, unclaimed, despite being pushed endlessly.

[xRECKONERx]

Also Reck why is meta trash?

because the second meta becomes valid it becomes invalid

[Thestatusquo]

if u cant understand the distinction people make psychologically then idk what to tell u

im speaking from the PoV of average mafia player who doesn't assume the mod gave scum every tool in the universe to stop town.

Do you really join games (or think most people join games) thinking "the mod will let us no elim and not play mafia for 2 days and then win."

Because that's what the towns plan required to be true about my game to have a chance of working. As a player in this game (and any closed setup I play in, for that matter.) I assume that if I tell scum information that I have bad things will happen to me, for this game specifically I would have also assumed the mod wouldn't just design a game where town has no protection from being double killed in the setup, and indeed the double kill was balanced in two different other ways.

There at least was a more interesting discussion in this game because the double kill as you point out, but that discussion wasn't really had. Instead town just started claiming willy nilly and no elimmed day 1 and the people who suggested that this was maybe not a good idea (who were incidentally ALL town, by the way) got shouted down and called suspicious. I'm not saying that maybe you can't come to a place where you think the double kill is scarier than giving scum info, but I doubt that should be anyones default position in a closed setup.

Basically I think town played day 1 like this was an open setup and it ain't. But, a lot of mech mistakes get fixed with good day play and good night actions, and the town was very good in that regard here. I think I said multiple times in the dead thread from D1 on that there was just a shockingly large number of players in this game who were painfully town, and town was just going to win this game with town blocking and PoE aided by the PTs at night, which is pretty much exactly what happened, even though the win con was technically tasks.

[Thestatusquo]

I actually think that mafia getting an extra kill if alone should have maybe not been public information but I'm not sure.
If its public information and it happens its easy to sus out no?

This is perhaps true.

[Thestatusquo]

that said, I don't think the stumbling's of D1 should detract from what was ultimately a pretty phenomenal town victory.

A much more succinct way to say what I'm trying to.