Micro 991: Names on the List [game over!]

[clidd]

I think town!FL would scumread me harder here.

Lots of flexibility around my slot that I don't like.

All the structuring of positioning to solve the game entering D2 is also something I am not buying from a town!FL mentality.

[Gimli son of Glóin]

[clidd]

Huuuuum

[clidd]

So you are indeed town, Gimli.

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Ahsoka

My new top 3 town is Gimli, Raya and Ahsoka

[Gimli son of Glóin]

I wish I felt the same way. I really dislike your solve rn. you think between ahsoka and dk, the scum is ahsoka? you think there's one scum between me and raya?? why? it isn't a necessity given your reads.

pedit: oh god you just put yourself in our towncore lol. well played. now idk. you're good.

[Gimli son of Glóin]

clidd keeps pocketing me if he is scum and I need help dealing with that.

[Ahsoka]

I think town!FL would scumread me harder here.

Lots of flexibility around my slot that I don't like.

All the structuring of positioning to solve the game entering D2 is also something I am not buying from a town!FL mentality.

What do you mean?

You're literally my top scum read.

[Ahsoka]

And yeah, if you guys wanna eliminate me or something, that's fine.

But after rereading the last few pages, I feel that Ahsoka broke the character and is playing like scum!Flavor imo.

I have broke character.

I feel like I've done some pretty great analysis this game, though

[clidd]

Yes, you did, don't worry.

[Ahsoka]

So note every time Clidd comes to thread and I'm around, he has actively tried flipping the game.

Earlier I called him out because he wasn't scum pushing me, and now he comes back to do it.

[Ahsoka]

957 is a reasonable interpretation of my attitude.

But the rest of the post seems a little traveled.

pedit: I'm towreading Infinity and I don't see how a vote for both of us would carry more weight than slots like Amélie or NM. I don't know if I understood your reasoning.

It seems to me that you are coming by associations instead of scumreading individually? correct me if I'm wrong.

pedit²: I still don't understand, I'll reread your posts.

We're in a gamelock, dude. And I've literally been pushing you since Day 1, so how is that by associations? Before it was specifically you vs Dkkoba based on individual reasons.

Explain your Infinity town read then.

Also, you stated that you think Gimli, Raya, and Infinity are town, yet you aren't pushing me or Kkoba, which is incredibly scummy. If you legit saw those 3 as town, from a town POV, and you specifically stated you thought 1 of Amelie/Not Mafia.

This implies you should be specifically thinking Dkkoba and I are scum.

this is still the best reasoning for Clidd scum.

Note that he came in AFTER I said this, and pronounced reads thereafter where I was specifically calling him out earlier.

[Raya36]

Sorry for the really long post, wifi went out last night when I was writing my post.

876 is very transparent. I don't understand how there can be people scumreading Gimli.

Agreed, Gimli appears almost obvtown to me.

Particularly, I think NM is being pushed a lot less than I would think of town!NM vs three scums and as nothing he said or did until now is suggestive enough to infer a specific alignment, the initial impression I described is the way I'm seeing the slot rn.

I agree with this thought. If NM is town he'd almost for sure be a target. And I don't think scum leaving him for LyLo is good logic. People have to be displaying suspicion for that to be viable and I don't see enough of that. NM always has the advantage of doing whatever and everyone brushing it off because it's NM. There's also not near as much suspicion on him as I'd expect considering the quickhammer which makes me believe he has 2 others on his side.

By the way, I liked your 906, Raya.

I believe that the proportion that you attributed to the development of your read about me, without losing the careful approach to not conclude anything in a hasty way, reflected me very organic.

I fear that everything I demonstrated in this game so far is still within my scumrange, but that shouldn't be a problem if you keep evaluating me correctly (which I believe you are).

That's the main thing I'm concerned about. You feel town and that's what my gut is telling me but I know this is likely not outside of your scum range and things like this make me worry that you're trying to pocket me or at the very least sway me more towards townreading you. I think a really big factor of my suspicions is the ratio of town to scum.

I'm here. I still think Dkkoba/Clidd/Infinity 100% have scum in them

Why this combination? I do like the rest of what you said though. I agree scum are probably trying to have an active role right now. Gimli is almost never scum. I'll look into what you said about Clidd. I'm feeling much better about him but maybe I've just exhausted myself with the slot and I'm missing something.

Gimli vs Dkkoba if there's scum in them, it's Dkkoba.

@Infinity - if you are town, I see absolutely no world where Dkkoba is town. Dkkoba been vote hopping left and right. They've been putting momentum swinging votes throughout this game, and frankly Gimli's posts just make sense to me, I don't really understand what people are pushing as scum with him.

I feel like he was just getting town read too much, and scum tried to setup a discredit. I feel like I haven't been in this game for a while, so coming in to Gimli being scum read like this seems completely opportunistic of scum. I'm definitely thinking too much into this, but nonetheless, that's how I feel. Even if scum wasn't aware, the natural feeling they had for the game likely came up anyways, and I don't believe Gimli's done anything that pushes a scum agenda forward.

He nearly single handedly stopped my wagon Day 1 in a position where if he was scum, he completely halted momentum on me, something that Dkkoba and Clidd both tried to keep pushing.

Absolutely agree with what's being said about Gimli.

[quote="In I don't think I'm following the 287 and 288 point about Horsewoman and Koba? Could you go into more depth with that?

Thank you for reading and discussing m ... ]post 1028, Gimli son of Glóin"]<koba, clidd, infinity, amélie, NM>

find two townies and win the game.[/quote]
This is the same pool I'm working with since Gimli and Ahsoka are my two townreads. The rest are townleans or below. I still think NM could be scum. And I'm suspicious of Koba lightly defending him. I feel like that's too obvious for them to be partners together though. But I absolutely want to eliminate one of them. The next three are sorted in this order for me as of now: Infinity, Amelie, Clidd.

You're gonna hate this, but that vote looks like such a bus.

Like maybe it's not, and you're gonna say that Clidd and I are just scum together, and I'm setting you up, but townies can make things tht can appear scummy looking at it from certain angles. That's so funny.

I wasn't gonna say it but that was my initial thought as well and something I could see Koba doing.

I was going to reread and reassess some things, but the more I type in the more people suspect me

Particularly I think that Gimli, Infinity and Raya are towns. But I must be wrong between Gimli and Raya.

So my solve would be:

{DkKoba, Ahsoka} -> 1 scum among them.
{Not_Mafia, Amélie} -> 1 scum among them
{Gimli, Raya} -> 1 scum among them

I originally thought that Gimli and Raya would be a good base for TR, but I can't think straight with so much information being dissolved from various sides. It is likely that town and scum are transmitting ripples that are hindering my consolidation.

Can you explain a little about where those pairs came from. I really don't think Gimli is scum and I know I'm not so the last pair is likely wrong. I also really don't think Ahsoka is scum so the first pair would point to Koba. And I think NM is scum which would point to Amelie being town.

You're gonna hate this, but that vote looks like such a bus.

Like maybe it's not, and you're gonna say that Clidd and I are just scum together, and I'm setting you up, but townies can make things tht can appear scummy looking at it from certain angles. That's so funny.

Actually, VOTE: Ahsoka

I think we are dealing with scum!Flavor this game.

Yeah... I hard disagree with this. I was feeling better about clidd's D1 but now his D2 is looking bad.

UNVOTE: Ahsoka

My new top 3 town is Gimli, Raya and Ahsoka

And now I'm back to being confused. How did you get enough info between those posts for this sudden change? Are you trying to wiggle your way into the townblock?




I'm still leaning towards publishing the list. I can understand both sides and the huge risk of using it but we already have a miselim and we need all the info we can get to help us figure this game out. I get the argument that scum made the list so of course it'll be manipulative to an extent but there's only so many reasonable combinations they can make and if we have a strong set of townreads we might be able to read through it. If we don't use the list we have 3/8 chance (37.5%) and with the list we have probably 2/5 (40%) and 1/3 (33.3%) which is similar but it gives us two smaller pools to work with. The list is in this game for town's advantage. Otherwise we're just playing a scumsided game.

Also not that I want to rush a decision like this but if we do choose the publish the list it needs to be soon or else we won't have time to make proper use of it and it would just be a waste.


Town: Gimli, Ahsoka
Townlean: Infinity, Amelie
Null: Clidd
Scumlean: Koba
Scum: NM

This is how I'm feeling right now. If I'm right about NM and Koba then I'm wrong about 1 person in my townpools. I feel very good about Gimli and Ahsoka so it would be between the 3 in my leans/null. I for sure want NM or Koba today.

Also small disclaimer, I suck at solving with teams/associations so I'll likely focus more on individuals until we have a scumflip to work with.

[Raya36]

VOTE: NM
Meant to do this

[clidd]

Ahsoka, which solve is likely with Gimli, Raya, me and you as town?

Hello Miss Raya.

Spicy vote, but shouldn't you be scumreading me bc of the last pages?

[Gimli son of Glóin]

It does feel like clidd's more nuanced reads considering POE are only coming because he was hardpressed to do them.

Ahsoka, if you feel that strongly about clidd near the end of the day, I think I'll join you. Right now I'm really just confused though. that 180 degree read putting both of us in his towncore is really shameless if he is scum.

pedit: good stuff raya. I think you're missing the point that our 3/8 comes with a 3/7 next gameday if we miss, and we don't have that opportunity with the list. I broke down the math somewhere in this game.

[Raya36]

Ahsoka, which solve is likely with Gimli, Raya, me and you as town?

Hello Miss Raya.

Spicy vote, but shouldn't you be scumreading me bc of the last pages?

I don't even know what to think of you anymore. I townread your D1 and scumread your D2. That's why you're in my null until I figure you out

[Ahsoka]

Ahsoka, which solve is likely with Gimli, Raya, me and you as town?

Hello Miss Raya.

Spicy vote, but shouldn't you be scumreading me bc of the last pages?

Koba/Infinity/Not Mafia

Not Mafia pushed the scum team as Clidd/Amelie/Gimli when I was pushing the 3 group.

[Ahsoka]

It does feel like clidd's more nuanced reads considering POE are only coming because he was hardpressed to do them.

Ahsoka, if you feel that strongly about clidd near the end of the day, I think I'll join you. Right now I'm really just confused though. that 180 degree read putting both of us in his towncore is really shameless if he is scum.

pedit: good stuff raya. I think you're missing the point that our 3/8 comes with a 3/7 next gameday if we miss, and we don't have that opportunity with the list. I broke down the math somewhere in this game.

Honestly, I'm not like ultra confident in which of them is town, and while I town read Raya, and they are generally town, I do have some paranoia, and Raya being scum flips this game, which is something in the back of my mind with the 3 group.

@Raya - Why do you town read Infinity?

[Ahsoka]

that 180 degree read putting both of us in his towncore is really shameless if he is scum.

I mean, if he's scum, he did it to try to persuade me away from him.

[Gimli son of Glóin]

I shared a lot of similar thoughts to raya's MQ, especially about clidd. since there are so many people in this game whose reads are so dissonant from mine and I've been liking and agreeing with raya through much of the game, I'm not going to afford myself to be paranoid about her slot.

[Ahsoka]

The clidd push kinda is what makes me nervous, but I'm always nervous about that kind of stuff. Like, I like the Clidd push by Raya, that's why I'm nervous. It makes me feel like there's a chance they're buttering me up, and if Clidd flips town, I'm an easy misfade.

Tinfoil, I guess.

[Raya36]

It does feel like clidd's more nuanced reads considering POE are only coming because he was hardpressed to do them.

Ahsoka, if you feel that strongly about clidd near the end of the day, I think I'll join you. Right now I'm really just confused though. that 180 degree read putting both of us in his towncore is really shameless if he is scum.

pedit: good stuff raya. I think you're missing the point that our 3/8 comes with a 3/7 next gameday if we miss, and we don't have that opportunity with the list. I broke down the math somewhere in this game.

I think my main thoughts about the list is that mafia made the list considering the D1 gamestate and I think if they had the opportunity to redo the list it would be different considering how D2 is playing out so far. I acknowledge the risk. I understand if we publish we can't miss. My concern is that I and I think others have more and stronger townreads than scumreads. And that makes this game one that should make good use of PoE. The list will absolutey help with that.

Let's say we publish the list and then hit Mafia.
DC=3, Town=5. Now we're at an advantage again.

If we don't publish the list and miss.
DC=3, Town=4. Now we're just where we would have been today if we published. And we don't have the opportunity to publish the list and we're forced to just play a regular game of mafia with huge scum influence.

Honestly both have their pros and cons and if everyone prefers not publishing I can live with that. I just think the risk is worth taking.

[Raya36]

It does feel like clidd's more nuanced reads considering POE are only coming because he was hardpressed to do them.

Ahsoka, if you feel that strongly about clidd near the end of the day, I think I'll join you. Right now I'm really just confused though. that 180 degree read putting both of us in his towncore is really shameless if he is scum.

pedit: good stuff raya. I think you're missing the point that our 3/8 comes with a 3/7 next gameday if we miss, and we don't have that opportunity with the list. I broke down the math somewhere in this game.

Honestly, I'm not like ultra confident in which of them is town, and while I town read Raya, and they are generally town, I do have some paranoia, and Raya being scum flips this game, which is something in the back of my mind with the 3 group.

@Raya - Why do you town read Infinity?

It's still attached to my earlier explained townlean of horse. Specifically on Infinity:
I thought his intro post was good as he was taking some interesting takes and not just sheeping and while I disagreed with some reads there were others that I did agree with. These reads developed as well. Going after Gimli would not be a good choice as scum at that point in the game. It wouldn't make any sense outside of aiming for towncred for going after someone difficult. His development on his read on me read genuine. I also saw some critical reading like when calling me out for not being confident about Koba D1s but still pushing. I also sense a layer of paranoia from Infinity which leads me to believe he's not informed.

I will admit my townleans including Infinity are quite weak and need to be developed on.

[Gimli son of Glóin]

I forgot about this game. I'll get back to this first thing after work I promise.

Amélie, we are waiting for your input.