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[Luca Blight]

I can't bring myself to even read Trendall's posts anymore.

[Luca Blight]

I'm gonna take a step back for a day or two, wait for Grendel's explanation and for Bugs to contribute before I do my reassessment.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah I really wish I had the time to discuss what I'm like in real life and how it relates to this mafia game. I'm sorry Frogsterking but the majority of that post isn't terribly accurate (you got the poor impulse control bit correct and that's basically it) and the disingenuous mental gymnastics of your trying to claim that I myself claimed those things about my own personality is like...I just have no idea what the fresh hell I just read to be honest. I'm not really interested in any of your criticisms of me on a personal level, you're presuming that the way that I choose to approach a mafia game is broadly representative of what my entire personality is like in real life, and it just isn't, I'm a character in a mafia game. On epicmafia years back I had different accounts and they all had different personalities like one was always cool and laid back, one was very talkative and frenetic and so on. I have no idea how to explain this and I have no objection to having a big conversation about how this relates to major insecurities I may have about myself or mental health issues I may have been diagnosed with and so on, but this is just a thing with me, I like screwing around with different online personas and one of the many reasons why I love this game is that it's a roleplaying game and I

in theory

should be able to just do that with the underlying understanding between all the players being that when you're in the game and just when you're online generally, you don't go about things the same as you do irl, so nothing in the way of a player being manipulative or critical or anything such as this necessarily reflects onto how they are as a person. To reiterate you're a character in a roleplaying game. When you start to focus too much on people's real life personalities, then it might not even be relevant for reasons such as this. But more importantly, the game basically turns into 'let's eliminate the person with the worst personality, who can win by attacking who's character the hardest?' which...I mean to be perfectly honest I'd probably prefer that as a game, but we signed up for a game of mafia so I don't think the real life stuff is useful.

This is the first post I’ve seen that makes me question the value of the personality stuff
I think the OCEAN test was legit, but the questionnaire seems like it might have been a crock of shit
Frogster I have to ask, why was Trendall the one you singled out among the responses?

I think his constant passive-aggression finally got to me, so I started tunneling on him, and I do genuinely think his responses to the second half are more suspicious, so it stuck out to me while I was reviewing his iso.

My goal with the questionnaire is to be built from the ground up which means I'm serious about incorporating suggestions like LunarMartian's "What KIND of stories do you tell?"

I don't believe I'm personally good at coming up with questions, I just think the idea has potential, and my end goal was to create a thread somewhere with a link to a good version of the OCEAN, the questionnaire (incorporating feedback from many players), and some statistics I've run on the questions like an ANOVA. So players would have the option to use it in games that I'm not even a part of compared to an RVS or an RQS.

Some ideas I have for the questionnaire are to include Y/N questions and Likert Scale questions because they're easy to analyze statistically. Another idea I have is for these short-response type questions based on some research I did this morning; have some more questions that are less relevant to the specific game as a control or a benchmark, and then have more questions that are relevant to the specific game, apparently among people who are both not used to lying and don't answer the control questions qualitatively (showing they're just being analytical in general) then the liars will become much more analytical when answering the relevant questions rather than the irrelevant questions. The best part is that theories like this can actually be tested now without being a genius or rich, using Python to do an anova between factors like sentiment analysis, alignment, OCEAN, and word count.

[Trendall]

As like, some feedback, if the question were 'How do you tell stories?' I would have been able to work with that a lot better and would say something like 'I'm terrible with the details and I'll jump back and forth between different bits and forget things, so for me it's like I care less about the details of the story and it's more about like being engaging emotionally, being theatrical, making people laugh, not being boring and so on'.

[Lunar Martian]

That post doesn’t read as nice, it reads as condescending. “Strange internet people”? That sort of rhetoric serves no purpose than to aggress others. Why are the people strange to you??? And saying “his reads aren’t that great” is not a good look when he also suspects you.
VOTE: Lunar Martian
Nah fuck this. When I break it down that post is loaded with blatant discrediting.

I am one of those strange internet people. What are you talking about? Frogsters reads are probably OK, I just mean his psychoanalysis.

That doesn’t change that nothing about that tone seemed polite or respectful. I still think you were shading him.

OK. You're wrong. I was just saying something to cheer Trendall up a bit, it had nothing to do with the game. It really wasn't much of a dig at Frogster either.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I probably overreacted
UNVOTE:
I want to sort out what I’m actually thinking vs. what I’m feeling, if that makes sense

[Frogsterking]

I'm gonna take a step back for a day or two, wait for Grendel's explanation and for Bugs to contribute before I do my reassessment.

The three Gs seem pretty townie to me.

Also don't mind Frogster, he didn't mean anything by it and also isn't as good at reading people as he thinks. It's only a game with strange internet people. We don't know anything.

This is true, I'm not a licensed psychologist or anything, I've def gotten a lot of feedback on my ideas and taken my information from ones that are, but I myself am not, and I make more mistakes than a lot of professionals would, and am being experimental with this approach.

Despite everything else, I still feel pretty confident for other reasons that Trendall is Mafia, and Gamma's post there as well as a few others recently suggest that we are on the right track and Mafia is trying to organize to shift momentum.

In actuality I wasn’t looking too favorably on Trendall up until that post, but it caused a spark to change my mind and I’m thinking maybe Frogster is up to something.
VOTE: Frogsterking
I’m not too sure about this but it can’t hurt to kick up some dirt, eh?

This could just be a reaction to my earlier theory about Gamma being deep scum (which could be a reaction coming from both alignments), but I'm more inclined to view this as a town tell I think? I think kicking up dirt here is townie, and the change of vote a couple posts later looks more like a townie to me rather than someone who is burdened with TMI.

I also had just came across Frogs case against Gamma, it needs over night marination but I can see sense in that stance.



In regards to trendall vs OWER, It would be a weird bussing position to take when I had clear suspicions on both slots.

At that point in time, the only reason I can think of for trendall scum jumping on after me is he either knew OWER to be scum with him and maybe clearing him on that bus

Or

To set up mislynches.

OWER wasnt getting off and there were other easier mislynches to be had. It's just overall weird

Yes the things going on with the slots within the PoE are very strange and making me hesitate. It's pretty clear to me that the scum in this game are more than capable of throwing town tells when needed. On self-reflection I see OutWorldER's rage being more likely motivated by a brushed-off townie than a scum.

That doesn’t change that nothing about that tone seemed polite or respectful. I still think you were shading him.

Again given what Frogsterking wrote about me and tried to do there, Lunar was just trying to reassure me more than anything else, and any disrespect or impoliteness towards Frogsterking is absolutely deserved at this point. It makes no sense for Gamma to have an issue with Lunar 'not being polite or respectful', but no issue with Frogsterking for the same reason. Although Frogster's post was again, just a personal attack disguised as like a 'scientific rational analysis' of me under the guise of trying to figure out whether I'm mafia or not, so I guess Gamma just fell for that.

It's definitely your actions and whether or not those actions are motivated by alignment that I want to bring to the table. It's true I was annoyed with you when I wrote it so my big post was more negative and poorly directed than I want it to be now that I'm calmer, and I'm sorry for that.

[Frogsterking]

As like, some feedback, if the question were 'How do you tell stories?' I would have been able to work with that a lot better and would say something like 'I'm terrible with the details and I'll jump back and forth between different bits and forget things, so for me it's like I care less about the details of the story and it's more about like being engaging emotionally, being theatrical, making people laugh, not being boring and so on'.

I think "How do you tell stories?" and "What kind of stories do you tell?" from you and LM respectively sound like great questions.

[Trendall]

It's alright. I think that in any game, if you start saying someone is hypersensitive or depressed or angry or whatever, trying to use that sorta language...you have absolutely no idea what issues people have in real life and you are absolutely playing with fire if you stumble across some aspect of a person that they're currently struggling with or whatever. To me it just seems wildly inappropriate to ever make wild guesses about somebody else's neuroticisms, like I can handle it, I don't mind, but like...there's no

way

that I would ever say anything like what you said to me to anybody, because I have the humility to recognise that I don't know them at all, and that my baseless speculations that I'm doing for my own amusement or comfort could have a serious effect on them, so it just ain't worth it.

[Trendall]

Can I get a vote count if someone's about?

[bugspray]

Oh I'm prodded

[bugspray]

Yeah a vc when I'm about to catch up is really good because it gets me into the mafia gamer mindset

[Datisi]

Votecount 2.5

Trendall(3)

~ Lunar Martian(44), NoPowerOverMe(15), Frogsterking(56)

bugspray(2)

~ OutWorldER(9), Luca Blight(55)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(17)


Not Voting (5): Trendall(34), Momrangal(7), bugspray(9), Gamma Emerald(21), Galron(7)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

FLAVOR

frame 19 out of 19035

[Trendall]

Thank you. That's more ppl not voting than I realised. I think that both the Trendall and the bugspray wagons are bad, so I'm actually going to join the Momrangal (I did have an argument for this as well but I just typed it out and then sorta like...looked back and it wasn't a great argument, like it had problems so I just deleted it) but I'm not massively committed to it and will more likely than not end up switching as the day goes on.

[Trendall]

Oh WOW I posted that and forgot to actually write the vote.

VOTE: Momrangal

[Trendall]

I see OutWorldER's rage

I'm guessing Frogsterking is just a player who has a tendency to project emotionality onto written content when it's just not there, but all I'm seeing in OutWorldER's posts is somebody like...dispassionately talking about the game.

[Trendall]

OK. You're wrong. I was just saying something to cheer Trendall up a bit, it had nothing to do with the game.

Oh by the way I really appreciate this.

[Trendall]

And note that 462 is the only time Bugs has mentioned Lunar at all this game, and it’s to make a light defence of them.

Says the guy who doesn't believe in pre-flip associations and has a history of complaining about people making 'pre-flip associations' in like, an alarmingly high number of past games. Interesting.

[Momrangal]

VOTE: gamma

I think here may be where I want to venture into

[Momrangal]

VOTE: gamma

I think here may be where I want to venture into the most .

I'm still wrapping my mind around the double chain saw, but I do think that, if Gamma is scum, then Bugs and Lunar are assuredly town. The more I think about it, the more I'm bothered by the fact that he was and is so non-chalant about there being two backup neighbors and dismissing the fact that one of them could be scum

[Momrangal]

The list also scores high in neurotics which means town will see red hearings where they don't exist and scum will be hyper aware of the game state, and what they are putting out.

I do think that frogster decided to do this thing before he drew his role, but the way he's moving forward with the play is pushing the game in a good direction

In a similar vein, NPOM also pushes the game in a positive direction and the only real concern I have there is his desire to be apart of a townbloc prematurely.

I'm also town reading Grendel for his stance on townblocking this early

I think Lunar Martian noticed something was off about NoPowerOverMe's post because they're super-conscious of being partners because it's new. Similar to my opinion of NoPowerOverMe's evasiveness and lack of clarity I find Lunar's description here about what he was thinking to be evasive in a way that also has a lot of potential to be AI.

You really think they, as they as scum would do this? It makes no sense to soft bus a partner this early on when they could be called on it, and forced to get into a harder stance against their partner. I think that's indicative of t/t or if they are scum, they are early on looking for ways to push what seems to be an easy target early on because of how disagreeable NPOM Is

I'm also moee than certain that NPOMS disagreeableness is NAI

Not sure I could see scum defending his biggest scumreader in that nature, especially when he disagrees with the inherent nature of it

Calling NPOM a village idiot subtly removes gravity from whatever push he decides to make

NPOM, amelie, and probably froggie are town in this game.

I especially like Amelie's train of thought posting. It's informative and transparent and something that is harder to fake for newbscum

Calling NPOM a village idiot subtly removes gravity from whatever push he decides to make

So do you also find people who call other townies "townbeard" or other such terms scummy?

I'm really confused at your logic here. Especially considering that I was defending NPOM there.

One townie using that term means that they think they are town, but being manipulated by scum so no?

Calling NPOM a VI is a double edged blade. You're shading him while defending him

VOTE: NPOM

I wonder what this'll do

It was pretty early d1.

What good does this do at this stage of the game?

[Gamma Emerald]

I could see bugspray as scum, and he had been a prominent SR earlier for me. But I don't like the idea that it has to be there. As noted before, I have experience with two town having the same role and it being a possible clash point between them. So I'm wary of attempts to try to push that sort of ideology.

[Trendall]

The last game I was in had two town doctors, so two town backup neighbours in the same game wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Lunar Martian]

Votecount 2.5

Trendall(3)

~ Lunar Martian(44), NoPowerOverMe(15), Frogsterking(56)

bugspray(2)

~ OutWorldER(9), Luca Blight(55)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(17)


Not Voting (5): Trendall(34), Momrangal(7), bugspray(9), Gamma Emerald(21), Galron(7)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

FLAVOR

frame 19 out of 19035

This vote count gave me pause because everyone voting was someone I think is Town. But immediately after it two people I don't think are Town place votes. Very interesting.

[bugspray]

I don’t like calling it a recruit
That sounds like someone picked us out to join the hood, when it was just RNG that enabled that

Really? What's the randomness involved?

my guess is gorgebailey went to random.org to decide that i will get the town backup neighbor role pm