[SETUP] Names on the List

[Datisi]

names on the list

6x

Vanilla Townie

3x

Mafia Goon

The Mafia does not have a factional nightkill. They may talk in the scum pt as long as they are alive. Executions are compulsory, ties are broken by seniority.

The Town has a

Doom Counter

, which starts at zero.

Even-numbered Nights are skipped. On odd-numbered Nights, the Mafia must make a list of N living players in the game. N = the next Day's majority. For Night one, it would be a list of 5 people, for Night three it would be 4 and so on.

On odd-numbered Days, executions work as normal. On even-numbered Days, the town has a choice between executing a player normally, or voting for

publishing the list

the Mafia made the previous Night.

• If the choice to
  publish the list
  is hammered, the moderator will reveal the Mafia's list and will reveal how many Mafia-aligned players are on that list (but obviously not who they are), the Town's
  Doom Counter
  increases by 1, and the next Day starts.
• If someone is executed, the last Night's list is lost.

The Town wins if all Mafia are dead.
The Mafia wins if the number of remaining Townies is brought down to [the number of living Mafia members + Town's

Doom Counter

].

inspired by Names in the Box.
i went through some numbers in my notebook, but what is setup balancing, i'm not sure what numbers would be good. or if this would even be fun to play.

[Something_Smart]

When I saw this in the queue I thought it was scumsided. Looks like the test run supported that?

Obviously, if town never publishes the list it's hugely scumsided. And I'm not really sure how much publishing the list helps town; as shown in the game, if they mis-exe D1 and publish D2, they have a 2/3 chance of losing immediately (and practically it's higher than that because scum get to choose exactly who goes in the group of 3).

[Datisi]

Obviously, if town never publishes the list it's hugely scumsided.

is it? 6v3 mountainous nightless has the same EV as 8v4 mountainous nightless (33% for town), and i believe that setup is historically dominated by town. though i'm probably not taking into account the non-EV effects the different playercount has on the odds.

for what it's worth, i did have a hunch it would be scumsided when i was queuing it, i just didn't have an idea of *how much*.

i get the feeling this setup is kinda plagued by positive feedback - if scum is stomping the dayplay, the town doesn't have anything to help them (though is that a bug or a feature?) and if a scum is exe'd early, the list probably swings it to town too much.

[Something_Smart]

Well, if you extrapolate that logic, then 2v1 mountainous nightless (in practice this probably turns out to be very close to 33% town win rate) and 4v2 mountainous nightless (a decent amount more scumsided than Lovers Mafia which iirc is slightly scum-favored in practice) also have the same EV. Town does overperform EV in nightless games because it's harder to get rid of strong townies, but the fewer townies there are, the less important it is to be able to remove the ones that are especially problematic to scum. Also, scum gain better ratios faster in smaller games-- in 6v3, after one mis-execution it might require all of the townies to agree to kill a scum member.

I agree that it's positive feedback-y. Nightless setups are in general; Black Flag Nightless was designed to fix that problem, so you could maybe adapt the scum wincon from that.

[DkKoba]

ideas:

cap doom counter at 3

town wincon requires only TWO scum elims(no doom counter cap)[prob too swingy but ideas are ideas]
adding onto the above ^ can make this so AFTER list is published, 2 more scum need to be eliminated, so a d1 scum elim doesn't swing it to town right away.

[Datisi]

names on the list v1.01

6x

Vanilla Townie

3x

Mafia Goon

The Mafia does not have a factional nightkill. They may talk in the scum pt as long as they are alive.

Executions are compulsory. If majority hasn't been achieved, whoever has the highest number of votes at deadline will be executed. Ties are broken by seniority, i.e. whoever got to that number of votes first is executed. If that method of tie-breaking is not applicable, the Mafia will be privately contacted to choose the day's execution.

The Town has a

Doom Counter

, which starts at zero.

Even-numbered Nights are skipped. On odd-numbered Nights, the Mafia must make a list of N living players in the game. N = the next Day's majority. For Night one, it would be a list of 5 people, for Night three it would be 4 and so on.

On odd-numbered Days, executions work as normal. On even-numbered Days, the town has a choice between executing a player normally, or voting for

publishing the list

the Mafia made the previous Night.

• If the choice to
  publish the list
  is hammered, the moderator reveals the Mafia's list and reveals how many Mafia-aligned players are on that list (but obviously not who they are), the Town's
  Doom Counter
  increases by 1, and the next Day starts.
• If someone is executed, the last Night's list is lost.

The Town wins if all Mafia are dead.
The Mafia wins if the number of remaining Townies is brought down to

Parity

.

Parity

is calculated as [the number of living Mafia members + Town's

Doom Counter

], but it is never higher than 3.

clarified the rule about what happens when no majority has been achieved by deadline and changed the scum's wincon. also edited some spelling and grammar mistakes uhh english difficult

i've written out a couple of different scenarios down in my notebook, this seems playable, at least a little bit more forgiving to town. i'll think about this a bit more.