TENET - Game Over

[Dunnstral]

LLD, is there a specific reason you think forwards can/will send somebody to derail this?

Sorry if you did already say, feel free to quote or give a post number if so.

I mean they literally said they would.

They have actively discussed sending someone back to force us to do Pooky/A50 today.

I unvoted my turnstile.

[Dunnstral]

Caught up, I don't really have the spoons for this game today. LLD is town and has conviction, i can roll with that, cabd is so deep in dithering at me he can barely function and I have no idea why I'm awake
UNVOTE: peta
UNVOTE: a50
-ceph

ty friend

peta should flip scum so we gucci. Only sad thing is other thread only has 48 hours now but

This isn't hammer, one more unvote is needed by my count

VOTE: Skitter30

It's time to do this. Bell and Skitter are never town-town here, Skitter's role is more suspect here.

[Brian Skies]

and like idk, you're really seeing bowl's progession on annie as possibly coming from town?

I don't know what you're referring to here.

[Brian Skies]

@Brian, if you're town do you actually plan to iso me at some point and change your mind or is this more of a "as long as people are hard disagreeing with me, I won't push it, but I'm not going to change my mind and will yeet Bell at the first opportunity" sort of thing?

Why do I need to iso you?

The rest is actually a pretty fair representation of my current stance on you. Although I do reserve the right to change my reads as I deem necessary.

[skitter30]

@bork
And another one. I'm p sure you lot just flipped peta and i would give >90% chance he's gonna flip town

[skitter30]

Caught up, I don't really have the spoons for this game today. LLD is town and has conviction, i can roll with that, cabd is so deep in dithering at me he can barely function and I have no idea why I'm awake
UNVOTE: peta
UNVOTE: a50
-ceph

ty friend

peta should flip scum so we gucci. Only sad thing is other thread only has 48 hours now but

This isn't hammer, one more unvote is needed by my count

VOTE: Skitter30

It's time to do this. Bell and Skitter are never town-town here, Skitter's role is more suspect here.

Hello, why. Is this entirely setup spec, or is there actually more to it

And can we review why me/bell is a dichotomy again, cuz i'm not actually sure its the case

[skitter30]

And why am i more suspect over bell again?

[skitter30]

you have both brian and bell as scum with the heavy shitfight they got themselves into? please enlighten me on that one

i mean not inherently scum together? i don't think i implied or indicated that i thought they were together

well, what do you think is the wrong read then?

I dont know yet. I only just got here like three days ago, i'm working on it

I'm inclined to think bell is town tho

[skitter30]

@bork
And another one. I'm p sure you lot just flipped peta and i would give >90% chance he's gonna flip town

Its like i dont even get what lld or cabd are seeing. Lld if town is stupidly tunneled and i dont know why cabd isnt seeing that peta's been ridiculously town

I also think cabd-town like gives some kind of response to the fact that i'm still calling him scum here, and he's just ignored it

[skitter30]

LLD's points aren't just smoke here...

Like It's 3AM and I'm reading the Peta ISO in full yet again and it's like.... He makes occasional town posts. A few GREAT posts, even.

But then there's plenty of what LLD pointed out and now that I'm cognizant of it, like, I can SEE her points being woven in.

I think ffery's heart might be broken after all.

Like this is nonsense, its like cabd trying to give himself cover for voting peta cuz like the 'peta-town' posts are townie and i think he should see that and it should outweigh whatever lld is talking abt. Some level of bop, yes, but i dont think he actually legitimitely comes to this conclusion as town / his slot ends up voting peta off of this as town

Also i think i finally realized why i got sent over - it wasnt abt me, per se, it was simply abt removing a town vote from that thread who was never gonna vote with the cabd/lld thing

They could have just as easily sent peta over and voted me out over there cept there was already some level of momentum to turnstile me over peta or a50

I think hp is right and that thread is kinda lost.

And cabd can ignore me calling him scum because there simply arent enough townvotes over there to functionally make a difference

I'm going to have such a fucking big post morten post explaining what exactly went wrong here after the game ends, which at this rate will be exactly tomorrow so yay ig

[skitter30]

And cabd can ignore me calling him scum because there simply arent enough townvotes over there to functionally make a difference

And ffery being pocketed doesnt help either, of course

[skitter30]

Like this is nonsense, its like cabd trying to give himself cover for voting peta cuz like the 'peta-town' posts are townie and i think he should see that and it should outweigh whatever lld is talking abt. Some level of bop, yes, but i dont think he actually legitimitely comes to this conclusion as town / his slot ends up voting peta off of this as town

Like cabd's post that i quoted is the post i write as scum when i'm allowing myself to be talked into something that i dont / cant legitimately find scummy but i'm p damn confident i can get away with the vote with few if any consequences

And, quite simply, cabd should know better

[skitter30]

Please yeet Skitter. That flailing in the other thread is so obvious.

I'm not flailing, i'm showing your scummy agenda and why its scummy for cabd to go along with it

[skitter30]

Please yeet Skitter. That flailing in the other thread is so obvious.

I'm not flailing, i'm showing your scummy agenda and why its scummy for cabd to go along with it

Yeah that's why you pulled over Cabd's response to my logic and not

1) my initial logic
2) Cabd's extensive research into Peta's ISO regarding my logic to confirm its efficacy and veracity.

You're definitely doing the honest upright thing where you take a real honest take about the alignments of players and not, you know, forcing a false narrative to try and survive.

Folks, I don't know how much more clear this can be. Follow my directions today. Peta is dead, now yeet Skitter and we're in good fuckin shape.

1. Your initial logic is empty
2. There's still a chance that you're actually town and this wrong and scum-cabd is just piggybacking off of you to get this vote. His research didnt prove that peta is town or explain how he actually came to that conclusion, it just gave him cover to vote along with you. I dont think town-cabd legitimately iso'd peta in good faith and came to the conclusion he did there. You're also ignoring the fact that i acknowledged his research in order to fit your narrative

3. If you think i'm scum with peta and sit here poking you and cabd abt being wrong *after you got my partner* just like lol. Like you're either not thinking critically abt this or you're scum. Like i'm not awful as scum, what on earth do you think scum-me-partnered-with-peta is getting out of the posts i'm making rn m.

[skitter30]

I'm not hedging. There's at least one scum in lld/cabd, and i wouldnt be surprised if both are.

And if cabd is scum ffery is town-pocketed who's enabling him, and i'm hoping that bork can knock some sense into her

[skitter30]

u 2 are awake too early on a sunday.

@Peta Sorry again for eliminating you. I hope to join u in dead thread soon. I will get on spiffeh case tomorrow? I am probably not dying tonight.

No. If the game isnt just a wash go for dandelion
Going after spiffeh probably wont help anything

And you absolutely should not have given lld your vote there

[skitter30]

skitter u seem to be taking much harder stances in the other thread than u were here.

With distance comes clarity

[skitter30]

although i probably woulnd't have listened to u.

i actually sort of think ur just grandstanding at this point. u seem like ur in a bad mood. or maybe im reading into it.

I mean the former is perhaps why i didnt try

I'm not particularly in a bad mood, was just kinda disappointed to wake up and see the peta thing ... i think we just lost with that and i was *just* starting to make headway with bork and maybe get things back on track and i'm p sure with that flip its just a wash

I probably shouldnt care anymore but i do apparently

[skitter30]

at this point each and everytime someone has moved over from one thread to other has had a complete personality change though.
I am starting to think the turnstile has some voodoo effects on the players minds.

Or maybe the threads are cursed.

Inverted is cursed, yeah
Its a lot easier to actually post coherent thoughts here and not get distracted by whatever massive fight is brewing over there cuz i'm not actually in it

I also think that what i'm saying here is a fairly clear continuation to what i was doing there, but whatever

[Hench Princesses]

Spoiler: From Posterity

So there's a number of ways of attacking reads in this game. This means there's lots of ways to think about the game, which can maybe be overwhelming.

Full Living Player List: Unwnd (Dunnstral), Spiffeh, Almost50, Bell, Brian Skies, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gypyx, superbowl9, Petapan, Deacon Blues, Dandelion Wine, midwaybear, Firebringer, Annie Edison, LadyLambdadelta, skitter30

Living Original Forwards: [Unwnd (Dunnstral), Spiffeh, Almost50, Bell, Brian Skies, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gypyx] at least 2 scum are confirmed in this pool
Living Original Inverted: [superbowl9, Petapan, Deacon Blues, Dandelion Wine, midwaybear, Firebringer, Annie Edison, LadyLambdadelta, skitter30] at least 2 scum are confirmed in this pool
SoN1 [Start of night 1] Forwards: [Dunn, Spiffeh, Annie, Brian, GX, A50, Bell] at least 1 scum is confirmed in this pool that killed Imperium, and that scum is either strongman or Bell is scum
SoN2 Forwards: [Brian, GX, Dunn, Spiffeh, Annie, Bell] at least 1 scum is confirmed in this pool, that killed Muffin

Current Forwards: skitter30, Annie Edison (notscience/The Bulge), Dunnstral unwnd
superbowl9, Bell, Brian Skies, Gypyx
Current Inverted: Almost50, PookyTheMagicalBear, Spiffeh, Petapan, Deacon Blues (fferyllt/borkjerfkin), Dandelion Wine (Cephrir/Cabd), midwaybear, Firebringer, Lady Lambdadelta

Flip orders:

Living Original Forwards: [Unwnd (Dunnstral), Spiffeh, Almost50, Bell, Brian Skies, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gypyx] at least 2 scum are confirmed in this pool
I would flip this list in the following pools: [A50 Pooky] Spiffeh [GX,Dunnstral,Brian] Bell if looking for the original scum in this timeline

A50 posts more random Austin powers memes as scum, he lacks paranoia about Annie Edison, and he accepted a turnstile that would deny himself tracker results. His play is mostly uninteresting and therefore scummy. He did do one interesting thing, which was combine a reads list off Brian and Annie's reads lists, but after the other issues he's a pretty high likelihood red flip.

Pooky's built almost his entire iso in the other thread around Firebringer which is weird and scummy.

Living Original Inverted: [superbowl9, Petapan, Deacon Blues, Dandelion Wine, midwaybear, Firebringer, Annie Edison, LadyLambdadelta, skitter30]
I would flip this list in the following pools: Firebringer, [skitter30,Annie Edison], LLD, SB9, [petapan, midwaybear] [Dandelion, Deacon]

SoN1 Forwards: [Dunn, Spiffeh, Annie, Brian, GX, A50, Bell]

Solving this night's kill is playing "find the strongman"

In terms of Strongman Likelihood I'd go Spiffeh, Annie, Brian, GX, A50, Dunn, Bell -- this is not a list of scumreads, more a list of how easily I'd see the roleclaim flipping strongman

Since A50 claimed a tracker result on Dunn night 1 that was also received by Annie, it would require an Annie+A50+Dunnstral scumteam for Dunnstral to be a scum strongman that killed imperium, so we can likely just rule that out. I believe Bell his claim.

I think multitasking tracker/strongman is unlikely, so I don't think A50 is likely strongman.

There are different reasons to argue for Spiffeh, Annie, Brian, or GX
-Annie was turnstiled in with probably at least 2 scum backing his turnstile, so it's not really that unreasonable to me for there to be a forwards strongman tracker receiver. I did think NS probably left scumrange at EoD1 when interacting with Titus but I'm not certain of this and I really didn't like NS's titus hammer or the AtE NS used in response to my pushes.
-Brian is a 1-shot second turnstile activator or something. I think Titus thought Brian was the most likely redflip in this timeline. I don't like his push on Bell today. But he's also seemed townie sometimes. I can see a strongman 1-shot turnstile activator if he's like, supposed to be the flavor of the Sator character himself or something, idk.
-GX claimed VT so it's not surprising people kinda want to PoE there. I argued he was town for dumbtelling Imperium as macho when they are confirmed not to be macho. That hasn't convinced several other people tho.
-Spiffeh has softed that he has power in the other timeline, but was okay not being turnstiled early on. I actually can see Spiffeh being a scum strongman pretty easily; he's been slow to hardclaim, his push A50 could have been s/s distancing or even s/t if I'm wrong on A50, his play has often been forgettable, Boon had Spiffeh as scum and Boon was scum with Spiffeh in the Boon vs Pooky game so he had very recent experience with scum spiffeh.

Overall I think solving for the strongman shot will be rather difficult though, especially since we can't actually do anything about spiffeh in this timeline and because there's just varying reasons to townread or suspect anyone in those 4 names to be the strongman.

SoN2 Forwards: [Brian, GX, Dunn, Spiffeh, Annie, Bell]
someone in this list of names killed muffin. the problem here is now that without the tracker result, if like, Dunn was just a multitasking scum neighborizer then he could easily drop a shot on muffin, so he's not as ruled out now. Aside from that I think if Spiffeh was like a 1-shot strongman then it'd make sense for him to do the kill and then purple room turnstile out. Mech on this night is weird.

Full Living Player List: Unwnd (Dunnstral), Spiffeh, Almost50, Bell, Brian Skies, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gypyx, superbowl9, Petapan, Deacon Blues, Dandelion Wine, midwaybear, Firebringer, Annie Edison, LadyLambdadelta, skitter30

Town at top, scum at bottom
Hard town:
Bell -- I just played vs scum bell, and this isn't scum bell. He's town, he's town doctor, you don't need to read him, if you ignore every other read you can probably count on this one

Muddled but more likely to be town:

Gypyx -- I think the macho towntell was good, his iso mostly just pushing Titus is bad. My towntell argument could be crap. Time will tell.

Brian -- Titus's top pick for scum, I still think his role is usually more likely to be town, don't like his push on Bell. Felt like some of his posts were too sassy to be scum but ehh.

Deacon and Dandelion -- Ceph feels pretty different from when I've seen him scum. Deacon has said several things that felt very tonally town. I trust that they're town more than I trust their reads, though. My recommendation is to think about these slots later if the game isn't lost by then, and I discourage you from just being inclined to blindly sheep them.

Dunn -- Everytime Dunn writes anything I feel like I'm staring into the face of death, listening to scum explain the most polite and effective way to lose the game for town. That being said unwnd's replace out was like, almost certainly town, and shelly's impression that unwnd's takes on the other thread's reads were also probably town. There's room for error here, and it almost would surprise me for both Dunn and Brian's roles to be town because generally 'has thing that lets you interact with other timeline' veers a little bit more toward bad guys in the movie. But flavor spec generally has not helped this game and has actually hurt. I kinda feel like just *off vibe* I should be voting Dunn actually, but he's a) never ever the strongman and b) very likely town for unwnd, even though his posts on their own make me feel like I'm talking to someone who is going to kill me 'later, when I'm no longer of use.'

Annie -- Still have more issues with this slot than most of the others in forwards, but it would still just surprise me to see the EoD1 NS flip scum, even though the Titus hammer feels scummy, the AtE feels scummy, the constant play around Deacon and Dandelion feels scummy, ehh.

Muddled reads:

midwaybear -- kinda like the tone of most of his posts for town, his solving isn't particularly whelming, nulltown, won't feel bad if he flips scum

Petapan -- has pushed a lot of slots, which means he's pushed a lot of misflipbait, and was probably involved in why things like S_S getting turnstiled happen. I thought him coming after GX after I fos'd GX at Eod2 and thread was locked and then dropping it later felt weird. I'm not impressed by LLD's push on this slot though and think it's a complicated read, not sure why people are saying obvtown or obvscum tbh.

LLD -- don't wanna talk about this read. Dead null though. (Also the reason this post exists)

SB9 -- didn't like his wallpost case on Gamma which occurred here -- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12428936 -- but later warmed up to his slot a little when he seemed to be trying to outcompete to see who could be more town about mech decisions and his push to turnstile skitter might have reflected a town POV. I didn't like him threatening to self-hammer vs. GX, that felt scummy. Muddled slot for me, although I've felt town there sometimes.

skitter -- skitter's role does indeed sound weird in conjunction with imperium + bell although it's not necessarily impossible with a scum strongman since doctor and strongman can cc each other from the watcher guilty.

Spiffeh -- I still liked his development on my slot, he's felt tonally town sometimes, but idk for some reason he feels like the most likely to be a strongman to me right now. So I kinda have more mechanical suspicions of this slot than tonal suspicions. Just based on how the game has gone, basically.

Likely scumflips:

Pooky -- seems to be building entire iso around firebringer, almost no reflection on reads, seems night and day from his townplay, the boon push was literally the towniest thing about this slot and that's really saying something
A50 -- As described above, his iso is unengaged and now half filled with austin powers memes so probably scum
Firebringer -- seems like obvious scum to me, I don't really get why anyone is townreading this slot, he has at no point cared about any of his pushes. I kinda liked at one point his thought process about skitter, but at this point given the timing of when he pushed skitter (early d1 and then d3 when numbers were screwy) I'd just as easily see fire/skitter being s/s -- playing very politically, I have more feelings here but don't want to go into more detail, the retracted cop claim is NAI but his solving is scummy

tl;dr?

Don't fucking flip bell

If someone comes looking for a post like this do direct them toward it

[superbowl9]

Why are we doing skitter again? And do we have the votes (like is someone intending hammer)

[skitter30]

I think i'm at two votes, and it is not at all clear to me why dunn thinks i should be limmed today

[SirCakez]

Hench Princesses has requested replacement.

[SirCakez]

Temporal Alert

The Inverted timestream has hammered.
(expired on 2021-01-12 09:22:00) remain until day end...

[SirCakez]

bump