Mini 2186: Pokemon Battles [GAME OVER]

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think so too. Town generally tries to make themselves readable so I think Red has a better chance of flipping scum than any of the other wagons.

VOTE: Red Flavor

I’m actually shocked that they haven’t received a single vote yet. They aren’t making reads but by obfuscating their posts, people can get the incorrect sense that they’re actually doing something.

So you're voting a gimmick account for playing to their gimmick?

I still think catboi could be scum. I really dislike the mistyx vote. The reasoning given was that she isn't acting as excited to roll town as she said which means absolutely nothing. The scumreads on red and Akari/Mara aren't good either. Both come across as easier pushes right now due to Red's low posting and gimmick, and Akari/Mara's lack of good explanation on the Bob vote. I'd expect town to question Akari/Mara, not immediately place a vote.

It’s a bad vote according to you if that gimmick account is making their posts unnecessarily hard to read? Why? I don’t think he’s scum but I think A/M is doing enough to be readable, so I agree with you that they’re probably not a great vote. So I understand where you’re coming from on Mystix which makes your criticism of my Red vote perplexing because I have nothing against gimmicks. Are you at all familiar with Dr Worm for example? That was a gimmick account but their solving was extremely evident and eventthough some people might have possibly found their gimmick annoying, it wasn’t at all difficult to understand what they were saying.

Tell me, why is Red town because being a gimmick in itself isn’t AI? A readable gimmick likely is and if you’re making your posts unnecessarily difficult to read, I’m not townreading you for that.

[Raya36]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hopefully you'll come around eventually. I guess one problem I had with its response to gamma re:bob is the worry about missing "obvscum" bob who refuses to explain his reads. I'm not sure why this was one of the first things that popped into chara's head, or at least one of the strongest emotional pictures I got from that post. If he's really bad at scum, he shouldn't be too difficult to catch later, given that he's active. People tend to weight their most likely scenarios most highly in their head, so I'm not sure why this is such a big concern for chara. It felt more like it was trying to look unsure about bob's alignment.

-Inf

I’ve played with scum!Chara and in that game, she said things that didn’t logically add up, she really wasn’t engaging with the rest of the playerlist and felt kind’ve slippery to me in that game. She didn’t come across as remotely confident or comfortable, so I’m not seeing that here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

Alright, then can you be the Red whisperer and explain to me wtf you think he’s actually saying? All I got from his ISO is one post weirdly shading Titus and another one where the referenced bob who he also apparently didn’t like and I don’t think he explained that either.

[catboi]

I still think catboi could be scum. I really dislike the mistyx vote. The reasoning given was that she isn't acting as excited to roll town as she said which means absolutely nothing. The scumreads on red and Akari/Mara aren't good either. Both come across as easier pushes right now due to Red's low posting and gimmick, and Akari/Mara's lack of good explanation on the Bob vote. I'd expect town to question Akari/Mara, not immediately place a vote.

WE

HAVE

LESS

THAN

TWO

DAYS


If in talking to them I get the impression I am wrong and that they are town I will happily but at this point in time I believe the added pressure is a good thing.

（;≧皿≦）

[catboi]

as for the misty thing...her second post was about how "happy" she was to roll town, one of those early things people say to try to look town. Since then, this is what she's produced:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

A really underwhelming level of input that doesn't much seem to reflect what she said in her second post. Where is the enthusiasm? Where's the scumhunting? It's all very dispassionate.

Is it slight and maybe silly reasoning? Yes. But for an early game read I don't think it was bad and certainly wouldn't argue Misty has towntold.

[Infinity Zero]

Nancy, I skimmed cards of destiny and another chara game and the feeling around its posts is quite different.

-Inf

[catboi]

You're saying you scum read them, but you decide to play devil's advocate for them?

And you prefer us over them because we have more opinions in the actual thread than he does even though he as more posts physically than we do?

If you're referring to actual post count then you're just being flat-out dishonest. Most of his posts have been empty filler, I'd gauge two as having real reads that might be AI. I didn't like either of those. I don't necessarily want to eliminate someone just for having two posts I disagreed with, because that can easily happen with town and ideally I'd like to see him post more. But he is on the negative side of my read list and I would absolutely vote him if necessary. You come in with stuff like a very under-justified bob vote and suspecting chara for saying titus's claim wasn't a towntell, calling raya underwhelming, which, wile even if I disagree with her, doesn't really appear to be the case at all, and I don't know why you'd single Raya out vs anyone else, if anything she's slightly on the proactive side.

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

What about his two posts of real content was good?

[Raya36]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

Alright, then can you be the Red whisperer and explain to me wtf you think he’s actually saying? All I got from his ISO is one post weirdly shading Titus and another one where the referenced bob who he also apparently didn’t like and I don’t think he explained that either.

He voted Titus then explained the reason was his overconfidence in the town reads. And then voted Bob for being evasive to my questions.

[Infinity Zero]

Catboi, uh, what's stopping akara from also just being town that disagrees with you?

-Inf

[Raya36]

I still think catboi could be scum. I really dislike the mistyx vote. The reasoning given was that she isn't acting as excited to roll town as she said which means absolutely nothing. The scumreads on red and Akari/Mara aren't good either. Both come across as easier pushes right now due to Red's low posting and gimmick, and Akari/Mara's lack of good explanation on the Bob vote. I'd expect town to question Akari/Mara, not immediately place a vote.

WE

HAVE

LESS

THAN

TWO

DAYS


If in talking to them I get the impression I am wrong and that they are town I will happily but at this point in time I believe the added pressure is a good thing.

（;≧皿≦）

I get we're pressed for time but I don't think the way you approached that vote was good. If you scumread red and mistyx too why not question them at the same time?

[Raya36]

as for the misty thing...her second post was about how "happy" she was to roll town, one of those early things people say to try to look town. Since then, this is what she's produced:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

A really underwhelming level of input that doesn't much seem to reflect what she said in her second post. Where is the enthusiasm? Where's the scumhunting? It's all very dispassionate.

Is it slight and maybe silly reasoning? Yes. But for an early game read I don't think it was bad and certainly wouldn't argue Misty has towntold.

I think that second post was more relief of not getting scum again rather than enthusiasm for getting town. But I do see where you're coming from about her iso being very underwhelming though.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

Alright, then can you be the Red whisperer and explain to me wtf you think he’s actually saying? All I got from his ISO is one post weirdly shading Titus and another one where the referenced bob who he also apparently didn’t like and I don’t think he explained that either.

He voted Titus then explained the reason was his overconfidence in the town reads. And then voted Bob for being evasive to my questions.

Okay I see your point but I don’t think that necessarily makes them town either because neither of those posts are something scum couldn’t make either. I also don’t share the view that Titus has been overconfident at all. I make reads like that all the time, I think that’s protown more than anything. Can you show me where bob was being “evasive”? I find his adversarial attitude kind’ve offputting so it’s difficult for me to discern that?

[Raya36]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

What about his two posts of real content was good?

Tit͞us̷'͟s ̸ey̨es ̷ẃer̵e͡ e͠g̶g̴s̨ of̷ ͏un̛s͡t̨abĺe͏ cry͝s͠t͟al҉, ́w͢h͜o̵s͟e͠ ͞n̴a͘m̕e͏ w͢a̶s͏ ̸po̴int̀i͏n͜g͞ ͏o҉ut t͝he ͏ơb͞v̸i͢o͞us̛, ͘a͢nd spo͟u̵ti̕n҉g͡ a ̨h͏um̢mi̢n̵g f͟or͡e̵s̴t̕ ͡ơf͞ ̧o҉v͜e̸rc̛oǹfide͢ņc̨e

This is fine for an early observation/read. Titus did display confidence when stating some people were town with no reasoning behind and while I don't necessarily agree with the read, Red didn't need to start posting AI content and could have slid by with more pure gimmick without raising much suspicion.

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

The first and greatest punishment of the sinner is the conscience of sin. whatever he might do, he should know Raya only asks to solve him. VOTE: wellermanbob

This is also fine, although surface level. My initial impression of Bob was that he was scummy for being evasive but when scum try to be evasive they aren't so blatant. But also in this post appears to be a townlean on me as it states I was trying to solve Bob.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Catboi, uh, what's stopping akara from also just being town that disagrees with you?

-Inf

I don’t know what bob is seeing but I think you guys are town here.

[Raya36]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

Alright, then can you be the Red whisperer and explain to me wtf you think he’s actually saying? All I got from his ISO is one post weirdly shading Titus and another one where the referenced bob who he also apparently didn’t like and I don’t think he explained that either.

He voted Titus then explained the reason was his overconfidence in the town reads. And then voted Bob for being evasive to my questions.

Okay I see your point but I don’t think that necessarily makes them town either because neither of those posts are something scum couldn’t make either. I also don’t share the view that Titus has been overconfident at all. I make reads like that all the time, I think that’s protown more than anything. Can you show me where bob was being “evasive”? I find his adversarial attitude kind’ve offputting so it’s difficult for me to discern that?

I already kind of expanded on the Titus part in my last post.

This is mainly what I'm referring to when I call Bob evasive but there are other smaller instances:

Yeah I definitely didn't know for sure if that meant you actually scumread them or not. Why do you scumread them?

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I still think catboi could be scum. I really dislike the mistyx vote. The reasoning given was that she isn't acting as excited to roll town as she said which means absolutely nothing. The scumreads on red and Akari/Mara aren't good either. Both come across as easier pushes right now due to Red's low posting and gimmick, and Akari/Mara's lack of good explanation on the Bob vote. I'd expect town to question Akari/Mara, not immediately place a vote.

WE

HAVE

LESS

THAN

TWO

DAYS


If in talking to them I get the impression I am wrong and that they are town I will happily but at this point in time I believe the added pressure is a good thing.

（;≧皿≦）

I get we're pressed for time but I don't think the way you approached that vote was good. If you scumread red and mistyx too why not question them at the same time?

I think that A & M are doing more sorting than both Red and Mystix put together and I’m really not picking up and particular agenday vibes from them, so I don’t think they’re a good flip for today.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

Alright, then can you be the Red whisperer and explain to me wtf you think he’s actually saying? All I got from his ISO is one post weirdly shading Titus and another one where the referenced bob who he also apparently didn’t like and I don’t think he explained that either.

He voted Titus then explained the reason was his overconfidence in the town reads. And then voted Bob for being evasive to my questions.

Okay I see your point but I don’t think that necessarily makes them town either because neither of those posts are something scum couldn’t make either. I also don’t share the view that Titus has been overconfident at all. I make reads like that all the time, I think that’s protown more than anything. Can you show me where bob was being “evasive”? I find his adversarial attitude kind’ve offputting so it’s difficult for me to discern that?

I already kind of expanded on the Titus part in my last post.

This is mainly what I'm referring to when I call Bob evasive but there are other smaller instances:

Yeah I definitely didn't know for sure if that meant you actually scumread them or not. Why do you scumread them?

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

Yeah, I kind’ve see what you mean here. This does somewhat concern me. If you’re going to hardpush a slot, you should be prepared to make a case against them rather then expect others to somehow telepathically understand what you’re seeing. This was precisely the point I was making about Chara that I can understand suspicion but bob is acting like it should be blatantly obvious to us all that IZ is scum and I think bob is confibiased on them based on a few opening posts and isn’t interested in re-evaluating. Chara otoh did re-evaluate her IZ read. I generally dislike emotional manipulation in general regardless of alignment so that may also be influencing me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

What about his two posts of real content was good?

Tit͞us̷'͟s ̸ey̨es ̷ẃer̵e͡ e͠g̶g̴s̨ of̷ ͏un̛s͡t̨abĺe͏ cry͝s͠t͟al҉, ́w͢h͜o̵s͟e͠ ͞n̴a͘m̕e͏ w͢a̶s͏ ̸po̴int̀i͏n͜g͞ ͏o҉ut t͝he ͏ơb͞v̸i͢o͞us̛, ͘a͢nd spo͟u̵ti̕n҉g͡ a ̨h͏um̢mi̢n̵g f͟or͡e̵s̴t̕ ͡ơf͞ ̧o҉v͜e̸rc̛oǹfide͢ņc̨e

This is fine for an early observation/read. Titus did display confidence when stating some people were town with no reasoning behind and while I don't necessarily agree with the read, Red didn't need to start posting AI content and could have slid by with more pure gimmick without raising much suspicion.

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

The first and greatest punishment of the sinner is the conscience of sin. whatever he might do, he should know Raya only asks to solve him. VOTE: wellermanbob

This is also fine, although surface level. My initial impression of Bob was that he was scummy for being evasive but when scum try to be evasive they aren't so blatant. But also in this post appears to be a townlean on me as it states I was trying to solve Bob.

Do you think bob is scum? I think if anyone seems overconfident in this game so far, it’s bob on his IZ scumread.

UNVOTE:

[Raya36]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

Alright, then can you be the Red whisperer and explain to me wtf you think he’s actually saying? All I got from his ISO is one post weirdly shading Titus and another one where the referenced bob who he also apparently didn’t like and I don’t think he explained that either.

He voted Titus then explained the reason was his overconfidence in the town reads. And then voted Bob for being evasive to my questions.

Okay I see your point but I don’t think that necessarily makes them town either because neither of those posts are something scum couldn’t make either. I also don’t share the view that Titus has been overconfident at all. I make reads like that all the time, I think that’s protown more than anything. Can you show me where bob was being “evasive”? I find his adversarial attitude kind’ve offputting so it’s difficult for me to discern that?

I already kind of expanded on the Titus part in my last post.

This is mainly what I'm referring to when I call Bob evasive but there are other smaller instances:

Yeah I definitely didn't know for sure if that meant you actually scumread them or not. Why do you scumread them?

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

Yeah, I kind’ve see what you mean here. This does somewhat concern me. If you’re going to hardpush a slot, you should be prepared to make a case against them rather then expect others to somehow telepathically understand what you’re seeing. This was precisely the point I was making about Chara that I can understand suspicion but bob is acting like it should be blatantly obvious to us all that IZ is scum and I think bob is confibiased on them based on a few opening posts and isn’t interested in re-evaluating. Chara otoh did re-evaluate her IZ read. I generally dislike emotional manipulation in general regardless of alignment so that may also be influencing me.

I'm really leaning towards Bob just having a different playstyle and not being necessarily scummy. Did we ever find out if Bob is an alt or from a different site?

[Raya36]

I find red fine to read actually. Maybe our disagreement there is where the issue is. I found his posts that contained content were good. The nature of the gimmick would make it more difficult to post but I still see an effort.

What about his two posts of real content was good?

Tit͞us̷'͟s ̸ey̨es ̷ẃer̵e͡ e͠g̶g̴s̨ of̷ ͏un̛s͡t̨abĺe͏ cry͝s͠t͟al҉, ́w͢h͜o̵s͟e͠ ͞n̴a͘m̕e͏ w͢a̶s͏ ̸po̴int̀i͏n͜g͞ ͏o҉ut t͝he ͏ơb͞v̸i͢o͞us̛, ͘a͢nd spo͟u̵ti̕n҉g͡ a ̨h͏um̢mi̢n̵g f͟or͡e̵s̴t̕ ͡ơf͞ ̧o҉v͜e̸rc̛oǹfide͢ņc̨e

This is fine for an early observation/read. Titus did display confidence when stating some people were town with no reasoning behind and while I don't necessarily agree with the read, Red didn't need to start posting AI content and could have slid by with more pure gimmick without raising much suspicion.

This is always such a silly line of questioning.

Do you think they have a greater chance of being scum than other players in the game? If so, why do you need my reasons?

If no, will me writing some reasons down be a genuine way of you reevaluating? Or is just rereading them yourself enough?

The first and greatest punishment of the sinner is the conscience of sin. whatever he might do, he should know Raya only asks to solve him. VOTE: wellermanbob

This is also fine, although surface level. My initial impression of Bob was that he was scummy for being evasive but when scum try to be evasive they aren't so blatant. But also in this post appears to be a townlean on me as it states I was trying to solve Bob.

Do you think bob is scum? I think if anyone seems overconfident in this game so far, it’s bob on his IZ scumread.

UNVOTE:

I don't think his overconfidence points to him being scum. But whether he's an alt or coming from a different site will have influence on this read.

[Infinity Zero]

imagine you are Inifinit and you are being pushed by some person completely new to your site

Bob seems to be new to the site, and yeah I agree that he mostly just has a different playstyle. Personally I lean town on him

-Inf

[Raya36]

Ok, in that case because most other sites seem to tend toward shorter deadlines if I'm not mistaken, Bob is more likely appearing scummy here due to a different site meta. I'm not necessarily leaning town on him but I no longer feel he is scummy.

[wellermanbob]

I don't believe in NAI tbh

Why not?

Because everything that happens in the game is influenced by the role you were assigned in a game. Maybe a completely off topic conversation like a favorite color, but for things that are "game relevant" in some sense, the passive choices we make in how strongly to convey our opinions, the care we take to ruffle feathers or not, etc, it all influences the game, so it is all AI.

[Infinity Zero]

VOTE: catboi

Their takes have been pretty safe, but I'm mostly just voting here because I don't like any of the other wagons. I'm also getting townvibes from raya, who's playing the polar opposite of a strategy that worked well for her as scum (lots of effort and nuance and aggression)

-Inf