TENET - Game Over

[Bell]

When did peta give up?

Ask Brian. I thought Peta was more subdued near EOD. But if I could identify a particular moment when it happened I have no idea.
I also don't think he gave up. Merely weakened himself.

[Brian Skies]

To revisit the Annie-Titus thing, Annie unvoted the wagon and voted both Muffin and Bell towards the end saying he wanting to get other things going, and we pretty much coerced him into hammering it. So I still don't get scummy vibes from him regarding that wagon.

[skitter30]

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

also, like, if this is the case (which i suspect), who does that point to over there?

This was short hand for a counter argument that was very ego-centric.
The first thing I suspected when I saw Peta just croak that fast was that
they were worried you'd talk your way out and I'd identify you as town because I'm a town hunter to an extent.

But I also know that, that's fucking stupid.
It could be anything from taking the opportunity of a couple of town votes to push through Peta with a heavy scum presence in the other thread.

Also his sudden 'giving up'
is easily explained by the negative interactions with LLD and others, plus the general environment in that thread. There's a clear ethical component to toning down rhetoric and his own temper which weakens his edge which makes it easier to eliminate him. But he'd do it anyway given social context.

i meant more: look at it from who decided to try to take advantage of that. which names pop out?

brian i'm not ignoring your post will get to it on a pc a little later
if you could go over why g ypyx is scum again as well that would be helpful

[Bell]

@Brian, if you're town do you actually plan to iso me at some point and change your mind or is this more of a "as long as people are hard disagreeing with me, I won't push it, but I'm not going to change my mind and will yeet Bell at the first opportunity" sort of thing?

Why do I need to iso you?

The rest is actually a pretty fair representation of my current stance on you. Although I do reserve the right to change my reads as I deem necessary.

I was seeing if you had motivation to read me or not. This wasn't the townie answer, since you said as necessary rather than as appropriate or something to that effect. I just find it difficult to believe that anyone could be scum reading me with my posts.

1. I did not hard defend Titus as town. I demurred to the 'to weird to be scum' angle. My stance was always meant to be exploratory and investigative I genuinely felt that sufficient answers from Titus could have solved for Titus. You down played the questions that I felt were major questions that needed answers for her alignment to become more clear.
2. I thought Annie unvoted Titus because they were being emotional and so he hesitated.

I was reading back on Spiffeh's town read into scum read on Titus. It felt vaguely scummy.

[skitter30]

i think that dunn/cabd/lld are half the scumteam and that we've been looking in the wrong places this whole time

i also want to highlight that dunn is setting up a me -> bell lylo upon my townflip so please, please, please dont vote bell just because 'there can't be a town watcher and a town doctor', i'd give good odds that just loses the game right there. and if *one* townie falls for that we just lose. like my expectations are not too high and i'd give better than decent odds that that just happens, but like, i feel like i need to try

(of course ignore this if i flip scum but i know i won't and i see what tomorrow is gonna be upon my townflip so i just need to say this as many times as i can to hope i get the message across)

dunn has spent a very long time crafting {exactly one of skitter/bell is scum}, but i'm not sure this is a true dichotomy, and i'm not sure why he's landing on the me-scum > bell-scum world (other than the fact that it makes lylo for scum!him tomorrow easy, of course)

[Brian Skies]

I would say that, of the players in this thread, I feel like everyone else has consistently given flashes of town- or town-like-motivation.

I don't really get that with Gyx.

I feel like he's just been doing things, but not really in a town-motivated sort of way.
Like him asking to get neighborized because he feels like he can solve more there when he can just solve here, and he hasn't really been doing much in that regard while he has been here, doesn't give me the best impression of him. I also feel like most of his contributions are reliant on setup spec, which is very meh to me.
I still don't agree with Nacho regarding the fake-dayvig. Yes, he did pull back after Noraa reacted, but he didn't offer anything in the way of analysis until Nacho prodded him about it. And before Nacho engaged him, I don't think he was really engaging in meaningful conversation before that, so I disagree with the assessment that he has been comfortable in this thread (or at least not been uncomfortable).
I still think they were either excited or feigning excitement when Annie brought up the Split PT thing and think he was looking to have her run away with it before I made it apparent that I wasn't fond of Annie inserting that into the thread.
I know HP said they thought it may have been a 'townslip', but I'm actually not a fan of the 'Macho IC comment'. I feel like it's probable they were trying to fake a dumbtell in the event Bell is town here.

well, pretty sure he's scum lol

why?

- positioning on annie / inconsistensy

- hyperagressiveness

- bad tone

- he feels highly like in a scumgamebi had with him

pedit : wdym?

I guess I'd like some more thoughts on these points, but a lot of them don't really sound proveable.

-What positioning on Annie? What inconsistencies?
-Hyperaggressiveness? I guess this could come from scum, but in what way does he think SB9 has been hyperaggressive? Can town not be hyperaggressive?
-Bad tone? I don't really get that. Kind of ???
-Feels similar to a scum game he had with him? What game?

Hard to tell if these are legitimately reasons he has for scumreading SB9 or if he just feels like he's supposed to provide some with his vote.

[Brian Skies]

I was reading back on Spiffeh's town read into scum read on Titus. It felt vaguely scummy.

His decision to vote Titus because he didn't want to read more Titus v Brian for the rest of the game gave me pause, but I probably would've hemmed and hawed about it for the rest of the game, so it's a very meh point for me. And he's trying to end what I want to end [A50], so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Also, I do believe he probably had some incentive for getting turnstiled role-wise, and thought him wanting to stay in thread for at least a little while after NachoTammy IC'ed themselves felt a little townish.

[Bell]

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

also, like, if this is the case (which i suspect), who does that point to over there?

This was short hand for a counter argument that was very ego-centric.
The first thing I suspected when I saw Peta just croak that fast was that
they were worried you'd talk your way out and I'd identify you as town because I'm a town hunter to an extent.

But I also know that, that's fucking stupid.
It could be anything from taking the opportunity of a couple of town votes to push through Peta with a heavy scum presence in the other thread.

Also his sudden 'giving up'
is easily explained by the negative interactions with LLD and others, plus the general environment in that thread. There's a clear ethical component to toning down rhetoric and his own temper which weakens his edge which makes it easier to eliminate him. But he'd do it anyway given social context.

i meant more: look at it from who decided to try to take advantage of that. which names pop out?

brian i'm not ignoring your post will get to it on a pc a little later
if you could go over why g ypyx is scum again as well that would be helpful

Cabd, Spiffeh.

I'm not sure if in a Cabd scum world it makes more sense that he didn't just fool Dunnstral or use LLD's read as an excuse to vote them rather than either or both of them being scum with him.

[Gypyx]

just, what's the skitter case apart setup spec? i don't see any other reason brought up and def won't vote there if there isn't more

[Gypyx]

cool, happy to hear you're willing to take a step back on bell

well yeah there's scum outside of bowl for sure, but we have bowl as scum, why give him a pass on that one because we know there's more out of him (or there might not even be)

and like idk, you're really seeing bowl's progession on annie as possibly coming from town?

gypyx can you also give me a quick tldr of your reads?

bell - locktown
hp - town
brian - town
dunn - leantown
annie - leantown
sb9 - scum

i *could* vote dunn / annie, but i really wanna flip bowl

also yeah sorry but i'm sleepwalking rn so i'll try to think more tommorow

[skitter30]

I would say that, of the players in this thread, I feel like everyone else has consistently given flashes of town- or town-like-motivation.

I don't really get that with Gyx.

I feel like he's just been doing things, but not really in a town-motivated sort of way.
Like him asking to get neighborized because he feels like he can solve more there when he can just solve here, and he hasn't really been doing much in that regard while he has been here, doesn't give me the best impression of him. I also feel like most of his contributions are reliant on setup spec, which is very meh to me.
I still don't agree with Nacho regarding the fake-dayvig. Yes, he did pull back after Noraa reacted, but he didn't offer anything in the way of analysis until Nacho prodded him about it. And before Nacho engaged him, I don't think he was really engaging in meaningful conversation before that, so I disagree with the assessment that he has been comfortable in this thread (or at least not been uncomfortable).
I still think they were either excited or feigning excitement when Annie brought up the Split PT thing and think he was looking to have her run away with it before I made it apparent that I wasn't fond of Annie inserting that into the thread.
I know HP said they thought it may have been a 'townslip', but I'm actually not a fan of the 'Macho IC comment'. I feel like it's probable they were trying to fake a dumbtell in the event Bell is town here.

i'm gonna focus on this one because i think it's a bit more pressing and i don't think the annie wagon is gonna be functionally relevant in the next 24 hours and i don't think atm i have the energy for both

the thing with gypyx is that i think he can be read entirely on tone: does he feel forced/awkward/like he hates posting? scum. if not, town. his posting here is chillaxed, stream-of-conscious-y, and there just isn't this nervous/anxious energy that i think is indicative of his scumage. have you looked at any of his scumgames?

like here's his posting from the game i keep referencing: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=34123
he has a bit of content very early on. than just disappears for a 1000 posts at a time, and keeps promising content but never delivers. there's a bajillion posts trying to explain why he hasn't posted content and how he's so far behind and needs to catchup, starting from post #16 in his iso, and basically continuing to just before he got voted out. he has 50 posts *the entire game* - he was alive for iirc something like 100 pages. between like posts 16 and ~26 in his iso, there's like two weeks in real time in between and literally all of his posts are abt how he can't post. eventually eh's very, veyr close to getting voted out, he shows up again and posts some content. and then everything from post 35 and his iso on he's a treestump and has already been flipped. (complciated semi-bastard game.) the point is that he's flipped and so it doesn't count towards alignment anymore - once he doesn't need to look townie the pressure is off and he can post in a chilled/relaxed fashion again.

meanwhile *while this was happening* in the scum pt he keeps posting abt how sorry he is that he isn't posting or doing anything. iso in scum pt: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12341678

he's posting here. he doesn't hate posting here, more importantly. he isn't being apologetic for not having reads. he's just having thoughts, and shares them as he has them. he was literally incapable of posting like that in a concurrent scumgame and i just can't imagine how he changes from that to this without flipping his alignment

like you write that he's doing things, but not in a town-motivated way. sure, i can agree with the second-half of that assessment. but i strongly, strongly think that the fact that he's doing anything at all is town-indicative for him. i can understand him wanting a smaller set of posts to interact with to solve in a hood, that doesn't bother me. i'm also p confident he runs that by partners as scum before suggesting it here, and he wouldn't do it without the go-ahead (and i have a hard time seeing him get the go-ahead given the machinations taht are going on wrt the purple room)

i'm p sure scum-him doesn't make a spontaneous fake dayvig either. he just doesn't have the range for it

like i guess my fundemental point is that while i agree with you that many of the things he's doing aren't great, i just don't think he actually *does* most of these as scum.

[skitter30]

gypyx, bell, brian, sb9, can i interst any of you in voting dunn?

i think his push on me here is fairly bad given taht it seems to be entirely based on setup spec - he seems to think he can get away with a push using just that as reasoning and won't or can't elaborate in any fashion

[skitter30]

(and sorry gypyx ... hope i wasn't too harsh there)

[skitter30]

like he has 249 posts here and i jsut don't think he posts that much as scum

[Dunnstral]

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

also, like, if this is the case (which i suspect), who does that point to over there?

This was short hand for a counter argument that was very ego-centric.
The first thing I suspected when I saw Peta just croak that fast was that
they were worried you'd talk your way out and I'd identify you as town because I'm a town hunter to an extent.

But I also know that, that's fucking stupid.
It could be anything from taking the opportunity of a couple of town votes to push through Peta with a heavy scum presence in the other thread.

Also his sudden 'giving up'
is easily explained by the negative interactions with LLD and others, plus the general environment in that thread. There's a clear ethical component to toning down rhetoric and his own temper which weakens his edge which makes it easier to eliminate him. But he'd do it anyway given social context.

i meant more: look at it from who decided to try to take advantage of that. which names pop out?

brian i'm not ignoring your post will get to it on a pc a little later
if you could go over why g ypyx is scum again as well that would be helpful

Cabd, Spiffeh.

I'm not sure if in a Cabd scum world it makes more sense that he didn't just fool Dunnstral or use LLD's read as an excuse to vote them rather than either or both of them being scum with him.

She's scum. Look at the way her reads turned.

[Bell]

gypyx, bell, brian, sb9, can i interst any of you in voting dunn?

i think his push on me here is fairly bad given taht it seems to be entirely based on setup spec - he seems to think he can get away with a push using just that as reasoning and won't or can't elaborate in any fashion

The problem is that he can get away with just that because I'm town reading him for some extremely clever posting if he's scum.

I think one of the heaviest indicators as to why I believe Dunstrall is not scum.
Is because of how he pushed ShellyC at the end of the first day.

Forwards TENET Operative

This role name doesn't seem to mention the amnesiac or cross-thread parts of your role though

If Operative is the name for a player, why is Shelly's role named "Operative"

16. A sample VT role PM is below:

Welcome to TENET SirCakez

ekaCriS TENET ot emocleW

You are a Forwards Tenet Operative

vitarepO teneT sdrawroF a era uoY

Abilities

-You begin the game in the Forwards timestream

aertsemit sdrawroF eht ni emag eht nigeb uoY

-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want to eliminate

tanimile ot tnaw uoy reveohw rof etov yam uoy ,yad eht gniruD

-You may Invert via a Turnstile by public vote

tov cilbup yb elitsnruT a aiv trevnI yam uoY

-You may enter the Purple Room each night by public vote

tov yb thgin hcae mooR elpruP eht retne yam uoY

If you invert, you will become

moceb lliw uoy ,trevni uoy fI

Spoiler:

You are an Inverted Tenet Operative

vitarepO teneT detrevnI a era uoY

Abilities

-You begin the game in the Inverted timestream

aertsemit detrevnI eht ni emag eht nigeb uoY

-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want to eliminate

tanimile ot tnaw uoy reveohw rof etov yam uoy ,yad eht gniruD

-You may Invert via a Turnstile by public vote

tov cilbup yb elitsnruT a aiv trevnI yam uoY

-You may enter the Purple Room each night by public vote

tov yb thgin hcae mooR elpruP eht retne yam uoY

If you invert, you will become your original role

lor lanigiro ruoy emoceb lliw uoy ,trevni uoy fI

You win once all of the

Sator Operatives

have been eliminated

etanimile neeb evah

sevitarepO rotaS

eht fo lla ecno niw uoY

The forwards game thread is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85288

:ereh si daerht emag sdrawrof ehT

The inverted game thread is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85289

:ereh si daerht emag detrevni ehT

You win once all of the

Sator Operatives

have been eliminated

etanimile neeb evah

sevitarepO rotaS

eht fo lla ecno niw uoY

The forwards game thread is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85288

:ereh si daerht emag sdrawrof ehT

The inverted game thread is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85289

:ereh si daerht emag detrevni ehT

This role name doesn't seem to mention the amnesiac or cross-thread parts of your role though

forwards tenet operative (modified follower)

this is my full name

Doesn't really make sense

It's like claiming Vanilla Town (modified follower)

This role name doesn't seem to mention the amnesiac or cross-thread parts of your role though

forwards tenet operative (modified follower)

this is my full name

Doesn't really make sense

It's like claiming Vanilla Town (modified follower)

But @Titus

it's possible the role originally read Forwards Sator Operative (modified follower)

And they switched Sator with Tenet, without realizing that that made up the town vt role

Is this a change to your claimed role name?

[Bell]

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

also, like, if this is the case (which i suspect), who does that point to over there?

This was short hand for a counter argument that was very ego-centric.
The first thing I suspected when I saw Peta just croak that fast was that
they were worried you'd talk your way out and I'd identify you as town because I'm a town hunter to an extent.

But I also know that, that's fucking stupid.
It could be anything from taking the opportunity of a couple of town votes to push through Peta with a heavy scum presence in the other thread.

Also his sudden 'giving up'
is easily explained by the negative interactions with LLD and others, plus the general environment in that thread. There's a clear ethical component to toning down rhetoric and his own temper which weakens his edge which makes it easier to eliminate him. But he'd do it anyway given social context.

i meant more: look at it from who decided to try to take advantage of that. which names pop out?

brian i'm not ignoring your post will get to it on a pc a little later
if you could go over why g ypyx is scum again as well that would be helpful

Cabd, Spiffeh.

I'm not sure if in a Cabd scum world it makes more sense that he didn't just fool Dunnstral or use LLD's read as an excuse to vote them rather than either or both of them being scum with him.

She's scum. Look at the way her reads turned.

I'm confused at why you quoted me. Also, please elaborate or direct me to the read switch and why the read switch is scummy.

[Dunnstral]

I'm telling you that Skitter is scum and is trying to convince you

Her read switch is on me and you can see it for yourself, she thought I was the towniest person in this thread back when I was defending her and pushing you, and even upon coming to this thread. But now that it's obvious that my read isn't changing she pivoted to an ultra wifom team which should seem super unlikely if you think about it (you guys are seriously underselling Deacon hydra's capabilities as town here)

She is fear mongering by saying that I vote her and then you and then oh no both town

[skitter30]

Bell from my pov dunn is making a fairly bad push that is entirely based on setup spec that he either cant or wont explain - its almost like he didnt really expext there to be much pushback and he literally doesn't have much of a reason for it beyond setup spec.

And since he's setup a dichotomy on me or you, he's gonna go to you next after i flip town

(I know you dont know i'm town etc, but from my piv this seems fairly obvious + you'll see it happening tomorrow)

I'll look at the quotes you pulled, one sec

And he's gonna say that when i first came i was townreading his slot and now i'm not. My response to dunn is: am i supposed to view your current push on me as town motivated? Like from my pov is this supposed to look like a good push?

[Dunnstral]

just, what's the skitter case apart setup spec? i don't see any other reason brought up and def won't vote there if there isn't more

Who would you rather vote?

I don't think sb9 looks like scum, he's a little too lost, but we can go over that again

[skitter30]

I'm telling you that Skitter is scum and is trying to convince you

Her read switch is on me and you can see it for yourself, she thought I was the towniest person in this thread back when I was defending her and pushing you, and even upon coming to this thread. But now that it's obvious that my read isn't changing she pivoted to an ultra wifom team which should seem super unlikely if you think about it (you guys are seriously underselling Deacon hydra's capabilities as town here)

She is fear mongering by saying that I vote her and then you and then oh no both town

I mean your probelm for making scummy looking pushes... you should have at least gone through the motions of pretending you actually had reasons before this

And i'm not fearmongering, you made it exceptionally clear that you think there's exactly one scum in me/bell. Are you really trying to say you wont turn to bell upon my townflip? (From your pov if i flip town.)

But lets go through the exercise of pretending i flip town - is bell next y/n?

[skitter30]

Also it's not an ultra wifom scumteam - bell independently got to abd and lld and you make sense with him and how the day went

[Dunnstral]

is bell next y/n?

No, I'd go into the inverse (a50, pooky) first

[skitter30]

Bell i dont get it. Why is the shelly stuff townie?

[skitter30]

is bell next y/n?

No, I'd go into the inverse (a50, pooky) first

So why are you pushing me again?

Seriously. If the main reason as best as i can tell is that you think there's scum in me/bell, you dont follow through with bell after i flip town because ...