Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[flow trap]

"maybe I was pretending to be new"

It was "Is this what you want from me?"

If you say so, but it wasn't sound like this.

I would of said "Maybe, I was pretending to be new " if that's what I was going for

[Salsabil Faria]

Cross pair elimination, take the yellow square on A2, if you trace it back it goes to Salsa+Enchant, which means I find them unlikely to be a pair

Still not get it

[flow trap]

Cross pair elimination, take the yellow square on A2, if you trace it back it goes to Salsa+Enchant, which means I find them unlikely to be a pair

Still not get it

I don't know what to tell you

[Prism]

My eyes kind of glazed over on the last few pages. I don't really have a read on floo but their early vote was good despite the criticism it got. Salsabil/Enchant are both gut townleans.

Sorry for flooding the thread a bit, should be responding more contemporaneously/measured in the future. Probably going to vote flow but I want to chew on it for a bit.

Last thing I'll do before I head out is talk a bit about myself as a player and some theory.

Spoiler: About me

What's your experience with mafia?
Why do you like to play mafia in general and forum mafia specifically?

I've been playing pretty competitively for over 10 years now. I'm primarily a chat mafia player but over the last few years have taken more of a liking to forum style. Feel free to draw on my experience at any time, but know that I am far from perfect.

I like to play mafia mainly for the challenges it presents in coordination, communication, and working together. I find overcoming these as town and setting each other up to succeed the most interesting part of the game. I'm also very, very competitive for its own sake-my biggest downside as town is probably the degree of obsessiveness I can take on, which tends to overwhelm or demand too much of the other players. I do my best to keep this reined in, but I do tend to be a bit demanding in terms of the effort I expect from others. I'm also a very patient player, in the sense that it is normal to really take my time before voting, working through the game across multiple days and multiple readthroughs. I do have my impulsive moments, though, when I've been playing it slow a bit too long.

I outright do not enjoy the scum alignment but am more talented in that sense-I'm good at running interference and setting town up to implode. That said, I generally find it hard to engage with the game and treat it like a job rather than a game. I tend to publicly position very aggressively, but this is usually only for appearances and I'm just waiting on town to wreck themselves.

I'm not sure if I have any general tips for working with me-I'd just say be patient with me if I'm a bit slow working through things, and to directly tell me that I'm overwhelming the game if I get too obsessive. People like to appoint me town unilateral leader. I don't like that, and it generally leads to town losses. I'm a very easy read for anyone that pays attention. Finally, I don't have a pronoun preference-use whatever you like.

Normally I don't like to talk theory but since this is a newbie I think it's appropriate to give general advice. I want to weigh in on the "Scum don't want attention" bit. Getting away from safebet's vote specifically, while you can usually get away with this in a game filled with weaker or newer players, I would really caution leaning on this reasoning. We might be able to get away with it this game, but it's a timebomb that will get you absolutely rolled in a table of stronger players. Even in this game, though we have some lesser posters we don't have any outright lurkers. Even the ones with lower counts-like floo-have had posts that take initiative. Treat players as individuals, gauge what you think THEY are capable of as scum rather than relying on something overly general.

[Enchant]

Here's my pair analysis, yellow is unlikely

I don't get this. Can you/anyone explain me with words?

Sigh.

Unlikely pairs:

Salsa+Enchant
Salsa+Safe
Salsa+Spartan

Enchant+Salsa
Enchant+Floo

Floo+Enchant
Floo+Spartan

Safe+Salsa
Safe+Zoomer

Zoomer+Safe
Zoomer+Spartan

Spartan+Salsa
Spartan+Floo
Spartan+Zoomer
Spartan+FaC

FaC+Spartan

[Salsabil Faria]

Cross pair elimination, take the yellow square on A2, if you trace it back it goes to Salsa+Enchant, which means I find them unlikely to be a pair

Still not get it

I don't know what to tell you

Like (to you) what pairs can be potential mafia team and why? Which pairs seem unlikely to be the mafia team and why?

[flow trap]

Asking me to explain is like asking a dyslexic to read; I'm extremely unskilled in that department

[esotericzoomer]

Analysing for pairs just aint it chief

[Salsabil Faria]

Sigh.

Unlikely pairs:

Salsa+Enchant
Salsa+Safe
Salsa+Spartan

Enchant+Salsa
Enchant+Floo

Floo+Enchant
Floo+Spartan

Safe+Salsa
Safe+Zoomer

Zoomer+Safe
Zoomer+Spartan

Spartan+Salsa
Spartan+Floo
Spartan+Zoomer
Spartan+FaC

FaC+Spartan

Thank you so much!

[flow trap]

I do what works

[esotericzoomer]

I do what works

It's a gateway to getting stuck in confbias
Anyway
VOTE: safebet

[flow trap]

That makes no sense

[Salsabil Faria]

Anyway
VOTE: safebet

Reason?

[flow trap]

Anyway
VOTE: safebet

Reason?

No.

[Spartan117]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

Other than that my main scum reads are EZ who I feel is being disingenuous in relation to that early waggon and has felt fake in some of their posts, and Fredrick who has been lurking and still yet to provide any meaningful content, could be typical scum trying to stay under the radar while still seeming active.

Can you be more specific as to what makes this feel like not town v. town to you? I don't like flow individually but that conversation as a whole seems plausibly TvT to me. It also looks like you don't have a specific one in mind, as neither are your top scumreads.

Can we place votes here even if it's on a MoO it's still helpful

Vote where? And what is MoO?

Sal posts #202 asks Flow a question

Flows next post is #218 voting Sal with the reasoning they are passive and fluffy, not answering their question at all.

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

For being passive and fluffy

What don't you get?

Like everything... your wagon was on E-1, but didn't get any response from you. You townread those people who voted you, and placed suspicions on those who didn't like the E-1 vote on you. And you already read people while being on page 4 only, like super fast! You also stated you're not a new player, so as an experienced one you should know that being super active/helpful doesn't necessarily indicate town, as well as being silent doesn't necessarily indicate scum. Generally, activity is the last resort to point someone as town/scum. A new player can read people at this early state base on the activeness but not an experienced player. Your suspicion on

esotericzoomer

for this reason doesn't make sense to me, also your vote on

Fredrick A Campbell

and the explanation after, also feel weird to me.

I liked Sals #224, gave good detail explained their thoughts reads very townie.

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

For being passive and fluffy

What don't you get?

Like everything... your wagon was on E-1, but didn't get any response from you. You townread those people who voted you, and placed suspicions on those who didn't like the E-1 vote on you. And you already read people while being on page 4 only, like super fast! You also stated you're not a new player, so as an experienced one you should know that being super active/helpful doesn't necessarily indicate town, as well as being silent doesn't necessarily indicate scum. Generally, activity is the last resort to point someone as town/scum. A new player can read people at this early state base on the activeness but not an experienced player. Your suspicion on

esotericzoomer

for this reason doesn't make sense to me, also your vote on

Fredrick A Campbell

and the explanation after, also feel weird to me.

Yeah, I don't respond to things like that as town or mafia. As I've stated it's easier to read people who interact with you, and I was also weary of a pocket attempt how they read me barely affects thing. Yeah, I try to read people early, I just said I was leaning that way. Being fluffy & passive isn't being silent, so idk what you mean. i no longer suspect EZ, I will elaborate later. And if you never played with me before the last thing would feel weird

Flows #227 is illusive much like their style seems to be, I get holding back information but it seems to be like getting blood out of a stone on the detail on their reads.

It seems as soon as Flow is done with talking to Sal he changes his vote to enchant, so neither seeming to be a vote of true sus but perhaps more to just ensure he has their attention maybe while he attempts to do his form of scum hunting.

Out of the two of them I would most likely lean more town with Sal and more scum with Flow.

[esotericzoomer]

That makes no sense

It absolutely does, when you are analysing pairs prior to any concrete information or flips you will get empty confidence in your reads, this then can warp into confbias.

[flow trap]

That makes no sense

It absolutely does, when you are analysing pairs prior to any concrete information or flips you will get empty confidence in your reads, this then can warp into confbias.

I am experienced enough to not do that

[Salsabil Faria]

Anyway
VOTE: safebet

Reason?

No.

wasn't asking you

[esotericzoomer]

That makes no sense

It absolutely does, when you are analysing pairs prior to any concrete information or flips you will get empty confidence in your reads, this then can warp into confbias.

I am experienced enough to not do that

I'm not gonna take you on your word

[flow trap]

That makes no sense

It absolutely does, when you are analysing pairs prior to any concrete information or flips you will get empty confidence in your reads, this then can warp into confbias.

I am experienced enough to not do that

I'm not gonna take you on your word

Fair enough

[safebet222]

Analysing for pairs just aint it chief

UNVOTE: EZ

Yep. You hit the nail on the head.

Plus, I think Prism is probably right. If you were called out on being disingenuous with your outrage, you'd have probably found something else to shift your attention to.

[safebet222]

I do what works

It's a gateway to getting stuck in confbias
Anyway
VOTE: safebet

That's ironic coming from you considering that the only real thing you've done so far is scumread me and defend your actions to anyone who cares to differ. Talk about skirting on conf bias.

[safebet222]

But you're not wrong.

[esotericzoomer]

I do what works

It's a gateway to getting stuck in confbias
Anyway
VOTE: safebet

That's ironic coming from you considering that the only real thing you've done so far is scumread me and defend your actions to anyone who cares to differ. Talk about skirting on conf bias.

Hammering in a personal scumtell constantly is not confbias
its being stubborn lol

[safebet222]

What's the difference?