TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[unwnd]

what did menalaqe say. last time i'm asking this

Why is this what you care about the most?

[OkaPoka]

its fairly obvious

[Hopkirk]

what did menalaqe say. last time i'm asking this

Why is this what you care about the most?

because i know menal doesn't scumread me here so why are you pretending he does?

[Hopkirk]

he has enough games with me to know the thing that you're 'all' in agreement makes me scum is exactly how i play as town. i throw mostly-joking angry shade and ATE at people who push me or say stuff i don't like. he's played 2-3 games of me doing that, commented to effect he knows that, commented that he found it funny, and clearly is aware of my sense of memeing based on how we've interacted outside of mafia games. you don't reach that conclusion that you're pretending you ALL agree on if he was involved when you discussed it

[unwnd]

I don't get why this is what you lead on. Mena is not in this game, I am. Do you want him to say 'no, Hopkirk is playing to his aggressive meta and pushes things he believes in.' You'd be right. He did indeed say that. However, he also said that you're being weird and that you're acting different from the last game you were in with him. He believes your stance is exaggerated

[Hopkirk]

this is very explicitly a playstyle point that 3 people who i've never played with have decided is scummy after discussing it with someone who knows it's town indicative or NAI at worse? bullshit. that discussion didn't happen and you're faking that it did.

[OkaPoka]

tbh i thought it was because mena probably wouldn't have read this game

[Hopkirk]

Maybe it's my own impatience but I've mulling over my vote on AGar and came to my own conclusion he isn't going to respond. The game has changed and so too is the way I read most players. Back in the day I'd come through their words to spot contradictions but I find scum nowadays don't really give a shit about making convincing arguments, no, it's more about the presentation. Something that makes townies go 'well, by effort and substantiation he must be town!' because people have gotten so traumatized by a red PM these days and believe scum just won't effort as much as town that it's almost bordering ridiculous. I am against this mindset because it assumes that people enjoy losing, which I'm pretty sure if you're playing any game the objective is to win.

This vote is something almost all of my team agree on.

I don't really bode well with (post) (post) (post) analysis and instead giving a general description of what I see. As for what I see? I sorta let it slide but there was a moment where Hopkirk responded to me saying 'i kinda like to work list up and then down first, getting townreads'. This is fine in practice, yet he remained quite passive-aggressive. I also think that line alone is disingenuous but is playing a part of his style right now, which all seems quite excessive to me. I think Hopkirk in that instance only responded that way because it sounded good, not that he really believed it. If his MO was to look for townies and form townblocks, then what is his explanation of splintered ridicule throughout the ISO. The shift in dynamic doesn't bode with his own words. Go look at the way he silver tongues Hercule then ridicules others. This is not paraphrasing but this man really said 'don't like it when there's consequence for your actions, huh?' It's all based on

proving a point

which is both petty and scummy.

It'd be really easy and really lazy to say 'he is being LAMISTy' but seriously that's boring and using umbrella terms like that caution back to the days where people would do things like Why me = Fry me. Mafia Jargon doesn't make someone scum guys, and I actually think scum are more prone to be lazy about their reads because it's pretty difficult to try and convince people.

[unwnd]

I mean

It's an interesting way to think about TM's dynamics, but I don't think it's grounded in reality

I also think you came up with it on the spot lol

[Hopkirk]

i asked you many times whether menal agreed with this. there is no reason to dodge my question unless you're playing in bad faith.

[Hopkirk]

i'm going to admit i read 'almost all' as all here, but the fact that you wouldn't tell me if it was menal is just as bad as if you'd said all

[Hopkirk]

and that's probably me for the evening. good fucking job

[unwnd]

Yeah I get it this is another one of your 'proving the point' moments

[Hopkirk]

Ythan
Almost50
Cephrir
innocentvillager
Hopkirk
Dannflor
hercule
OkaPoka
Dunnstral

townreads in no specific order. i'll sort through all the isos on saturday

[DrippingGoofball]

im interested why you didn't mention my recent post on Ythan in here. I would've thought that you'd townread me at least little more since you "see what I see" wrt Ythan.

I don't consider agreement alignment-indicative.

[DrippingGoofball]

if you weren't expecting to walk away from this question (asking me about my Ythan and Xtoxm reads) with a slightly better understanding of my alignment

I liked your answers to the questions so my immediate reaction was to integrate them with my own views. This exercise exhausted my brain cells and I didn't revise my thinking about your alignment. Having said that, I didn't detect a scum agenda, so I'd say that my read of you was subliminally affected.

[DrippingGoofball]

'this means the quote is paraphrased'

"this means the quote is pretty much actual"

this is literally the quote

Alright so what does that ridicule mean for you and why are you not acting upon your own words?

"No, this means that 'there is a quote' inside another quote."

[DrippingGoofball]

it doesn't take this long to answer the question you ignored first time round. don't come back with any shit about 'i didn't see it' because you read the post i bolded the question in and chose not to respond to it

This sounds angry.

[DrippingGoofball]

plus there's some incredibly shady shit going on with his team right now

uh what

[DrippingGoofball]

That bout of rage reeks of rabid scum.

[hercule]

I am a bit fascinated by this push on hopkirk from unwnd. I townread hopkirk, though I presume when you say he "silvertongued me" that you mean he is pocketing me. I'm not seeing what you are seeing, and suggesting that they are trying to prove a point when they speak, being petty, ridiculing things they think are dumb isn't scum-indicative for me, if anything it's town-indicative.

I am also curious as to the comment that "almost all" of your teammates scumread Hopkirk / agree with the vote. Can we get rundown of each one's thoughts in particular and how much of the game they have read? Doesn't have to be longform just a general idea

[hercule]

I am a bit fascinated by this push on hopkirk from unwnd. I townread hopkirk, though I presume when you say he "silvertongued me" that you mean he is pocketing me. I'm not seeing what you are seeing, and suggesting that they are trying to prove a point when they speak, being petty, ridiculing things they think are dumb isn't scum-indicative for me, if anything it's town-indicative.

I am also curious as to the comment that "almost all" of your teammates scumread Hopkirk / agree with the vote. Can we get rundown of each one's thoughts in particular and how much of the game they have read? Doesn't have to be longform just a general idea

honestly, I am curious about all five, including Ampharos

[unwnd]

I am a bit fascinated by this push on hopkirk from unwnd. I townread hopkirk, though I presume when you say he "silvertongued me" that you mean he is pocketing me. I'm not seeing what you are seeing,

and suggesting that they are trying to prove a point when they speak, being petty, ridiculing things they think are dumb isn't scum-indicative for me, if anything it's town-indicative.

I am also curious as to the comment that "almost all" of your teammates scumread Hopkirk / agree with the vote. Can we get rundown of each one's thoughts in particular and how much of the game they have read? Doesn't have to be longform just a general idea

I think that's just perspective. The scathing criticism would be more potent if it lead to something, or had some greater purpose. I came away from this interaction pretty confused in the way he addressed my points, instead of focusing on singular tells based on if I was lying about my whole team agreeing if he were scum or not. It's all very showy and presentation-oriented. As far as the others, me and Mena went back and forth about a few things with me just mostly leading on my logic which turned into minor complaints about how I think scum play in very boring ways and that I'd be disappointing if my read actually turned out to be correct. Amy replaced out and Maria agreed with me when I was just like 'yeah I think he's scum', but I was biding my time to see what Hopkirk would do before I came back to it.

The result was nothing.

[Cephrir]

Maybe it's my own impatience but I've mulling over my vote on AGar and came to my own conclusion he isn't going to respond. The game has changed and so too is the way I read most players. Back in the day I'd come through their words to spot contradictions but I find scum nowadays don't really give a shit about making convincing arguments, no, it's more about the presentation. Something that makes townies go 'well, by effort and substantiation he must be town!' because people have gotten so traumatized by a red PM these days and believe scum just won't effort as much as town that it's almost bordering ridiculous. I am against this mindset because it assumes that people enjoy losing, which I'm pretty sure if you're playing any game the objective is to win.

This vote is something almost all of my team agree on. I don't really bode well with (post) (post) (post) analysis and instead giving a general description of what I see. As for what I see? I sorta let it slide but there was a moment where Hopkirk responded to me saying '

i kinda like to work list up and then down first, getting townreads

'. This is fine in practice, yet he remained quite passive-aggressive. I also think that line alone is disingenuous but is playing a part of his style right now, which all seems quite excessive to me. I think Hopkirk in that instance only responded that way because it sounded good, not that he really believed it. If his MO was to look for townies and form townblocks, then what is his explanation of splintered ridicule throughout the ISO. The shift in dynamic doesn't bode with his own words. Go look at the way he silver tongues Hercule then ridicules others. This is not paraphrasing but this man really said 'don't like it when there's consequence for your actions, huh?' It's all based on

proving a point

which is both petty and scummy.

It'd be really easy and really lazy to say 'he is being LAMISTy' but seriously that's boring and using umbrella terms like that caution back to the days where people would do things like Why me = Fry me. Mafia Jargon doesn't make someone scum guys, and I actually think scum are more prone to be lazy about their reads because it's pretty difficult to try and convince people.

what does the bolded part mean? that's not a quote and it makes 0 sense
wtf? passive agressive? i'm actively aggressive to anyone bad enough to call me scum. how exactly are you calling me passive aggressive then going on to reference my active aggression
your whole team?

does that include Menalaque?

this is an important question. going to want to hear exactly what each of them are thinking rather some coward-ass hiding behind your 'team' bullshit
the ridicule i deliver is highly deserved, designed to reveal the pathetic who would cower behind their mediocrity.

although i couldn't entirely follow unwnd's point i can't stand this post

[unwnd]

I admit it was very lazy

I'm uh

A bit backloaded right now and I sincerely apologize, it matters a lot to me that my posts make sense.