TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[OkaPoka]

like seriously

[Winter Flakes]

UNVOTE: Mastina

idk where to put this atm i need to catch up

[mastina]

not sure why ABR is being wagoned
Infinity and I both think he's pre townie

When ABR flips town y'all are gonna need to look at posts like this and realize this is scum sitting on the sidelines letting the town eliminate town without actually trying to stop it.

[Winter Flakes]

i've been TRing ABR for pretty much the whole game please dont' try that with me

[OkaPoka]

yes winter flakes is in everyone's poe as well

[Winter Flakes]

anyways

Ceph/Dann votes on ABR are bad

i looked at the start of the quick wagon on him and the reasoning makes no sense

[Winter Flakes]

I'm kinda partial to Hopkirk atm (might be conf!bias but i'm just pretty sure he's town here) so his vote, while I don't like it, is something I'm willing to look by

infinity thinks dann is scummy and that vote definitely adds to that for me

[Cephrir]

winter flakes continues to be scum, surprising no one

[mastina]

literally read the next like three posts

I read chronologically, but this feels like a sufficient counter:

again the xtoxm wagon is purely because xtoxm
1) had a townread on titus for townreading iv for scumreading her
2) but this reasoning was demonstrably false because titus had townread iv before iv scumread her
3) and xtoxm rather than backing up, doubled down on a faulty premise and also included auro backing himself up
so the argument is xtoxm and auro have decided that they want to townread titus (don't know why) and invented a reason as to why.

read this mastina

I'm far from convinced; quite the opposite in fact. According to my dual iso, you made a fundamental fact-checking error. IV votes Titus here, and Titus said IV was town here. Titus said IV was town AFTER IV voted Titus--and a vote on Titus is sufficient to say that IV was suspicious of Titus, no?

So Xtoxm could reasonably deduce that Titus townread IV for scumreading her.

IV voted Titus before Titus's stated locktown read on IV. And Xtoxm's townread on Titus was after both of those.

So your point of Xtoxm making up reasons due to a chronology error on his part...
...Doesn't have a chronology error on his part, it has a chronology error on YOUR part.

[Winter Flakes]

@Mastina

out of interest, how do you propose I try to stop the elim?

Most of the stuff I've said has been ignored anyway outside of The Worst and maybe DGB acknowledging it lmao

[Winter Flakes]

VOTE: Dann

[OkaPoka]

well mastina I can lead a camel to water but I can't get it to drink can I

[Winter Flakes]

winter flakes continues to be scum, surprising no one

ok scum

[Cephrir]

fine no i'll try engaging i guess
@WF

why are those votes in particular bad? they were all empty votes, yes?

why is dann scummy?

[OkaPoka]

again multitasking which is why this took so long

Hopkirk is close to a townread but he is not at the level of unwnd or hercule for me. i get the feeling he's just a good player which makes me paranoid of his scumrange. honestly my eyes glaze over his posting (potentially not ideal) but the vibe I get is that it looks like he's being helpful and engaging everyone in an effort to understand what's going on. if he's establishing himself to push an agenda i have a feeling we'll see it later but im very okay having this slot around for now.

JacksonVirgo - mostly a tonal read. i don't love 526 or 533 but the posts i thought were +town are: 534, 597, 598, 599, 647, 648. it's hard to explain it beyond just being openly frustrated and utterly not giving a shit about his thread perception which i have found in practice (in my anecdotal experience) to be a towntell for him.

A50 - this is like exactly the same as A50 in this one towngame we played and not at all how he played in this scumgame we did (granted he replaced in, which is different). there are moments like 112, 116, 619, 622 that ring eerily similar. "but it's just A50's playstyle!" you might say. okay sure maybe, that's why he's one of my weaker townleans i guess. also 737 is a really weird thing to post as scum but i obliged him since someone on my team thinks he can read him ok.

Xtoxm - unprompted and unpostury/interesting notes from Auro are good, i liked 642 for example. don't see an agenda from this slot, not postury, takes are pretty reasonable. other people townreading them too despite lack of content quantity which feels good. weaker townlean probably

TW - ill likely be revisiting this a lot bc im paranoid. here's the reasoning i gave earlier

rn it's leantown i think with the engagement and with the hinting on Datisi scumreading me so early (inside thing where town!Datisi has tunneled early town!me for two games in a row, i like that Datisi gave the read and the worst mentioned it unprompted). his entrance felt forced but on reread it's not bad. could be some confbiasing going on there so im conflicted, idk, im gonna just like worsty be a slow burn read for me.

and i think with your recent interaction with me im townreading you even more. i think your disengagement from this game is fine in the context of being busy and maybe even +town in a vacuum. also i think it's easy for scum!you to try and pocket me and you've done everything but engage with me and pocket me.

I'm ok adding IV to my townblock

i dont think that's how townblocks work

iv is voting you

Haven't got there yet, but I'm ok with putting him in my never eliminate pile.

literally three posts down

like

not talking to you until you catchup because my sanity is gone

[Winter Flakes]

Empty voting at this point is a big wtf moment, is it not?

I don't see how ABR's comment is actually all that bad? It's just an observation. It feels like a terrible excuse to wagon him, a slot who has been more vulnerable than average in comparison to the rest of the slots in this games. What benefit does scum!ABR get out of making that post? Does it give him any towncred? No. I don't think it does. It doesn't make sense to post. I think it's just a legitimate observation on the situation

[mastina]

@Mastina
out of interest, how do you propose I try to stop the elim?

By dismantling the reasons for the scumread while also pointing out the reasons for the townread.

[the worst]

i've been TRing ABR for pretty much the whole game please dont' try that with me

but whyyyyy

[OkaPoka]

again multitasking which is why this took so long

Hopkirk is close to a townread but he is not at the level of unwnd or hercule for me. i get the feeling he's just a good player which makes me paranoid of his scumrange. honestly my eyes glaze over his posting (potentially not ideal) but the vibe I get is that it looks like he's being helpful and engaging everyone in an effort to understand what's going on. if he's establishing himself to push an agenda i have a feeling we'll see it later but im very okay having this slot around for now.

JacksonVirgo - mostly a tonal read. i don't love 526 or 533 but the posts i thought were +town are: 534, 597, 598, 599, 647, 648. it's hard to explain it beyond just being openly frustrated and utterly not giving a shit about his thread perception which i have found in practice (in my anecdotal experience) to be a towntell for him.

A50 - this is like exactly the same as A50 in this one towngame we played and not at all how he played in this scumgame we did (granted he replaced in, which is different). there are moments like 112, 116, 619, 622 that ring eerily similar. "but it's just A50's playstyle!" you might say. okay sure maybe, that's why he's one of my weaker townleans i guess. also 737 is a really weird thing to post as scum but i obliged him since someone on my team thinks he can read him ok.

Xtoxm - unprompted and unpostury/interesting notes from Auro are good, i liked 642 for example. don't see an agenda from this slot, not postury, takes are pretty reasonable. other people townreading them too despite lack of content quantity which feels good. weaker townlean probably

TW - ill likely be revisiting this a lot bc im paranoid. here's the reasoning i gave earlier

rn it's leantown i think with the engagement and with the hinting on Datisi scumreading me so early (inside thing where town!Datisi has tunneled early town!me for two games in a row, i like that Datisi gave the read and the worst mentioned it unprompted). his entrance felt forced but on reread it's not bad. could be some confbiasing going on there so im conflicted, idk, im gonna just like worsty be a slow burn read for me.

and i think with your recent interaction with me im townreading you even more. i think your disengagement from this game is fine in the context of being busy and maybe even +town in a vacuum. also i think it's easy for scum!you to try and pocket me and you've done everything but engage with me and pocket me.

I'm ok adding IV to my townblock

i dont think that's how townblocks work

iv is voting you

Haven't got there yet, but I'm ok with putting him in my never eliminate pile.

now since you couldnt be assed to scroll three posts down ill specify the important thing for you

Haven't got there yet,

[Cephrir]

Empty voting at this point is a big wtf moment, is it not?

I don't see how ABR's comment is actually all that bad? It's just an observation. It feels like a terrible excuse to wagon him, a slot who has been more vulnerable than average in comparison to the rest of the slots in this games. What benefit does scum!ABR get out of making that post? Does it give him any towncred? No. I don't think it does. It doesn't make sense to post. I think it's just a legitimate observation on the situation

i mean, no, those votes were all very telegraphed and clearly based on agreeing with okapoka/dann/whoever. and obviously, all 5 of those votes aren't from scum, so clearly it's possible for town to see something there.

did you read the posts that prompted those votes? can you rebut them? what's your explanation for his sudden reversal and lack of explanation for it?

[the worst]

xtoxm definitely was lurky in the team mafia normal no? @duck i know you were in that game

yeah and I wrote him off as "meh sort later"
scum

playing below his scumrange is a real bad tell for xtoxm d1

[OkaPoka]

hmm maybe that was too vague

(I, Titus) Haven't got there (the part where IV votes me) yet,

[the worst]

The level of certainty that xtoxm is scum is obnoxious to me. Same with the wagon on me. It's hard to play some good mafia with this herd mentality.

please be a beacon of good mafia then because so far you're like clearly the most dead weight player in the game lol

[the worst]

who is expressing such certainty that xtoxm is scum

I feel like this sudden concern about a phantom group of people that are deadset on xtoxm obv scum is made up

he's scummy but like ??? it's day 1 in a large if either of you flipped town I would be frustrated but not surprised

ding ding

[mastina]

again multitasking which is why this took so long

Hopkirk is close to a townread but he is not at the level of unwnd or hercule for me. i get the feeling he's just a good player which makes me paranoid of his scumrange. honestly my eyes glaze over his posting (potentially not ideal) but the vibe I get is that it looks like he's being helpful and engaging everyone in an effort to understand what's going on. if he's establishing himself to push an agenda i have a feeling we'll see it later but im very okay having this slot around for now.

JacksonVirgo - mostly a tonal read. i don't love 526 or 533 but the posts i thought were +town are: 534, 597, 598, 599, 647, 648. it's hard to explain it beyond just being openly frustrated and utterly not giving a shit about his thread perception which i have found in practice (in my anecdotal experience) to be a towntell for him.

A50 - this is like exactly the same as A50 in this one towngame we played and not at all how he played in this scumgame we did (granted he replaced in, which is different). there are moments like 112, 116, 619, 622 that ring eerily similar. "but it's just A50's playstyle!" you might say. okay sure maybe, that's why he's one of my weaker townleans i guess. also 737 is a really weird thing to post as scum but i obliged him since someone on my team thinks he can read him ok.

Xtoxm - unprompted and unpostury/interesting notes from Auro are good, i liked 642 for example. don't see an agenda from this slot, not postury, takes are pretty reasonable. other people townreading them too despite lack of content quantity which feels good. weaker townlean probably

TW - ill likely be revisiting this a lot bc im paranoid. here's the reasoning i gave earlier

rn it's leantown i think with the engagement and with the hinting on Datisi scumreading me so early (inside thing where town!Datisi has tunneled early town!me for two games in a row, i like that Datisi gave the read and the worst mentioned it unprompted). his entrance felt forced but on reread it's not bad. could be some confbiasing going on there so im conflicted, idk, im gonna just like worsty be a slow burn read for me.

and i think with your recent interaction with me im townreading you even more. i think your disengagement from this game is fine in the context of being busy and maybe even +town in a vacuum. also i think it's easy for scum!you to try and pocket me and you've done everything but engage with me and pocket me.

I'm ok adding IV to my townblock

i dont think that's how townblocks work

iv is voting you

Haven't got there yet, but I'm ok with putting him in my never eliminate pile.

literally three posts down

like

not talking to you until you catchup because my sanity is gone

I don't see what you're trying to say; near as I can tell, you're proving your case wrong?

Your case is that Xtoxm said he was townreading Titus for townreading IV while IV was scumreading Titus; you say that runs into a chronology problem, of IV's scumread coming AFTER Titus's townread.

Except, IV's scumread came BEFORE Titus's townread, and therefore Xtoxm's reason doesn't have a chronology problem.

You've said Xtoxm townread Titus because Titus townread IV after IV scumread Titus, and that Xtoxm's townread reasoning was made up because IV's scumread on Titus came after Titus's townread.

Except...IV's scumread on Titus did indeed come before Titus's townread on IV, so Xtoxm townreading Titus for townreading IV's scumread of her...

...Doesn't actually run into a chronology problem...

...And thus, has no reason to be faked.