Large Normal 231 | Etymologies | Game Over

[quiet]

I don't know why you think BBMolla is a policy yeet. He was already scummy before all his AtE antics.

And a BBMolla elim tells us a lot. He makes sense as a partner to all the suspect slots in the game.

I guess I don’t know if I’m fully on board with how scummy the slot is, given the (sigh) meta of BB. This feels within his bored town range.

The second bit, and the bit about the two wagons, I wanted to try to set up the various worlds for plus vs BB but it kinda broke my brain a bit, until I realized that I liked Vax as scum for either plus scum or bb scum.

But if generally people I like like the two existing wagons, then I’ll try to figure out which I like better. As things stand, I find PlusJOY scummier then BB, but I like the people on BB more. I think that’s the current state of the world.

[Luca Blight]

Is anyone hugely resistant to a Vax elim today?

I have this weird feeling that Vax is a good candidate for most solves.

I'd really like to hear why you think this.

[quiet]

But if generally people I like like the two existing wagons, then I’ll try to figure out which I like better. As things stand, I find PlusJOY scummier then BB, but I like the people on BB more. I think that’s the current state of the world.

quiet, what do you think of the fact that the players you think are town are voting BBMolla while the players you think are scum are voting plusJOYED?

Yeah same thought. I don’t love that fact. Also, BB had been calling me town/saying that I’m a scummy player so am prob town for most of the game, and generally being nice to me. We played together in my first newbie game, so I’m predisposed to liking them/am an easy pocket. That being said, having played with them and metadived them for that previous game, I give them more credit than some people here have been.

I think Mom is in a similar position, and she’s confirmed in my head. Previous experience with BB making her question the scummyness.

[Luca Blight]

I really don't want to rely on meta to read a player who is hyper-aware of his own meta, but I'd be interested to see some of the meta you're referring to.

Could you point me in the right direction?

[Vaxkiller]

In what world is ignoring people a townie mindset

Sometimes it's +town for the rest of the town to ignore a bad town slot.
Not saying it's the case here, but just proving that it can indeed be a townie mindset to ignore a slot.

Why do you think I've been skimming the BBMolla push? It's bad town mostly.

Hayker and Plus need to flip. If Plus is town, Andres is lockscum.

Titus, assuming this is a bad town push on town, wouldn't scum be all over that? Seems like something you should not be ignoring.

Pronouns confuse your question.

Huh? Does titus mean my use of the word "you"? I'm not understanding.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, that made no sense.

[quiet]

In post 3490, quiet wrote:
Is anyone hugely resistant to a Vax elim today? I have this weird feeling that Vax is a good candidate for most solves.
I'd really like to hear why you think this.

People not in my strong town bucket:
Speculative town
{Luca, Hayker}
Scum with some frequency:
{BBmola, chkflp}
Scum often:
{Vax, Titus, PlusJOY}

I really think the solve is within this group I'm operating under the assumption that there are 3 left, and that most of the time, they're in the bottom 5. I think Hayker/Luca only end up scum in a few scenerios (for example, if Titus got confirmed town, I'd be a lot more willing to search for a LucaScum world).

So what worlds make sense from these 5: {BBmola, chkflp, Vax, Titus, PlusJOY}

This is where my brain kinda broke. I'm not sure how good I am at this kind of analysis, it really felt like there were sort of two sides/narratives emerging today (around the if plusJoy town then Luca scum shade by Titus, and around the BBMola push). Though the votes were on BB and Plus, it almost felt like the narrative was sort Luca vs. Titus.

I really wanted to actually define what these worlds might look like, but I just...can't seem to get them down in a way that makes sense to me. What I did note was that Vax fits in as a quieter, don't rock the boat scumpartner to either side. I also have in my notes that Vax has soft pinged me a couple of times, but I'd probably need to be on a laptop to track down receipts for that, and I'm still traveling today.

I feel like I'm making a poor point badly, so I'll try to summarize where I'm at after writing up this post.

Today feels like the first time scum has to push a narrative strongly (except for maybe on Nero), given how capably NM derailed everything. There are narratives emerging today about Plus, BBmola, but also Luca, Titus, and people associated. We also got some basically mechanical clears. So it feels like we should be able to figure out which people are pushing what, and identify scum there/or even find people that make sense in either scenerio, but I'm just not good enough to do it, and it looks like I might have to recend my Vax suspicion as this post isn't even convincing myself.

Like, unless we are to believe this is a SvS wagon, then scum is pushing one way or the other to some end. I don't love it, don't know how to read it, and if sorting Vax isn't attractive, then maybe pushing Titus is. Plus and BB are both low hanging fruit to some degree, and while they could def just be scum here, I'm concerned.

[Luca Blight]

(around the if plusJoy town then Luca scum shade by Titus, and around the BBMola push). Though the votes were on BB and Plus, it almost felt like the narrative was sort Luca vs. Titus.

Still reading through your post, but wanted to correct this: Titus said that plusJOYED Town means Andres is scum. Momrangal said if PlusJOYED is scum then I'm scum.

[quiet]

Still reading through your post, but wanted to correct this: Titus said that plusJOYED Town means Andres is scum. Momrangal said if PlusJOYED is scum then I'm scum.

ty for the correction here. I prob should have waited to post till I was off V/LA.

This is sort of my point here. Mom's narrative is clean as she's town, but there are narratives starting to pop up for future days, and scum will either be making some or pushing some. Titus pushing a narrative is an obvious example (maybe too obvious, I think Titus is also a high frequency frame in worlds where she isn't scum), but I think theres something to discover here, I just can't articulate it. I'll probably drop this for now unless it does something useful for someone else.

A game I referenced to see how BB played in a big game (in this case, as town)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=82769

My Newbie game, where they play somewhat different to this, but still close-ish to where I disregarded any of the people sussed by the miller fakeclaim
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
In this game, they were bored/annoyed with people pushing them/just decided to make a play hoping a doc would save them that they softed a role night1 and got promptly murdered for it.

This was a scum game I referenced too
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

But there's plenty to look through, BB plays a lot.

[chkflip]

Stuff like this is why I SR you, Chkflip.

And?

You take this stance while completely ignoring all the reasoning I've given behind BBMolla being scum, and why the game-state points to plusJOYED more likely being Town.

Flase. I've stated my read. I've stood by said read since the beginning of the game. Is it possible my BBmolla read is wrong? Of course it is. But do I think I'm wrong? You've given me no reason to believe as much.

Your scum tells are superfluous and innaccurate.

Your reasons are either weak or NAI for BBmolla IME w him.

PlusJOYED has two instances in which they've denoted they ARE NOT playing.

PlusJOYED has tied voting pattern aligned to flipped scum. That's probably the most important part here, no?

THE GAMESTATE. Heh. The gamestate is what it is because one scum traded themselves for... little to no reason, it seems, other than some sort of distraction maybe? Maf was a sinking ship I guess?

Your read is your read. Mine is mine. To say I've ignored you is fallacious and misleading, don't you think?

In general your posts haven't been that bad (although not that great either) but you're guilty by association with BBMolla and Titus from where I'm standing.

Everything before but is about as good as I aim for, so, like, I understand this isn't meant to be complimentary... but thank you?

As far as everything after the but goes, well, I currently town read both of those slots. So being associated with them isn't so bad from my point of view as it stands.

[Hayker]

Hey Hayker! How do you read Titus?

Going to keep asking you questions every now and again when I see you on if that’s okay, it helps me feel good about my read on you.

Im leaning more towards scum Titus currently. The VCA leads to two townie's from my perspective. Likely just pushing as any easy miss-executions as they can before pressure mounts on them.

[chkflip]

Here’s what’s going to happen:

"Plus flips town"
Titus: My god, a totally not active slot flipped town who could have seen this coming? Good thing my trusty VCA™ confirms Andres as scum now, whew. Who could have seen that one coming?

And what do you expect town's reaction to be, exactly?

"Town: Aw, geez. It's okay, Titus! Let's go!"?

Don't be goofy, Nor. I think Titus' current theory re: PlusJOYED is sound. That's what I'm following.

[Momrangal]

I don't know why you think BBMolla is a policy yeet. He was already scummy before all his AtE antics.

And a BBMolla elim tells us a lot. He makes sense as a partner to all the suspect slots in the game.

And when he flips town?

[Luca Blight]

Stuff like this is why I SR you, Chkflip.

And?

You asked me why I SR you, remember?

You take this stance while completely ignoring all the reasoning I've given behind BBMolla being scum, and why the game-state points to plusJOYED more likely being Town.

Flase. I've stated my read. I've stood by said read since the beginning of the game. Is it possible my BBmolla read is wrong? Of course it is. But do I think I'm wrong? You've given me no reason to believe as much.

Your scum tells are superfluous and innaccurate.

Your reasons are either weak or NAI for BBmolla IME w him.

PlusJOYED has two instances in which they've denoted they ARE NOT playing.

PlusJOYED has tied voting pattern aligned to flipped scum. That's probably the most important part here, no?

THE GAMESTATE. Heh. The gamestate is what it is because one scum traded themselves for... little to no reason, it seems, other than some sort of distraction maybe? Maf was a sinking ship I guess?

Your read is your read. Mine is mine. To say I've ignored you is fallacious and misleading, don't you think?

Nah, you did ignore my points and you're still ignoring/dismissing them even now.

In general your posts haven't been that bad (although not that great either) but you're guilty by association with BBMolla and Titus from where I'm standing.

Everything before but is about as good as I aim for, so, like, I understand this isn't meant to be complimentary... but thank you?

As far as everything after the but goes, well, I currently town read both of those slots. So being associated with them isn't so bad from my point of view as it stands.

I'd like to know more about your reads in general. I feel as though you've kept your cards quite close to your chest in this regard.

[Luca Blight]

I don't know why you think BBMolla is a policy yeet. He was already scummy before all his AtE antics.

And a BBMolla elim tells us a lot. He makes sense as a partner to all the suspect slots in the game.

And when he flips town?

IF

he flips Town (big if) I'll have to completely reassess again, of course.

[BBmolla]

BBmola is...I find myself in Mom’s camp. Day4 policy elim feels bad, and what does BB flip tell us? Heybbmola please help me sort you because there just isn’t a ton to go on, and I know this is kinda your vibe, but I need stuff to go on.

What up quiet just woke up

I agree with your Vax comments I share similar sentiments

[BBmolla]

What can I do for you?

[BBmolla]

DGB your reads are trash and so are your posts

I still enjoy you though

[BBmolla]

Like, there’s this clear divide of competency that has formed

Scum think I’m an easy miselim so they thought they could just plop a vote on me

I personally think Norwegian is far too competent to be voting me

I’ll elaborate let me get on the computer

[quiet]

BB, I think what I want from you is takes on wagons that don’t involve you.

I’m still open to hearing your take on Norwegian, or how the wagon has developed or whatever else, but I’d be curious, for example, if you think Gamma is town for their push on cheeky/their play this game more generally, your current stance on Titus/chkflp, any reads you’ve formed from interactions with the Nero wagon, the rest of the game. Otherwise it kinda just feels like you’re slamming people who voted you, which has some use if you get flipped, but isn’t really a case against flipping you. And I prefer to flip scum, so if I can feel more certain about reading you, then PlusJOY or my stupid Titus/Vax push becomes more viable.

[quiet]

That’s it for me, I’ve got to get back on the road.

[BBmolla]

Incompetent:
Gamma Emerald (His vote on me is because of an awful tell.)
DGB (This is pretty standard for DGB reads tbh, DGB is always a wildcard in terms of accuracy.)
Hayker (22 posts, half of them are about my miller claim, including their vote on me)
Luca (Conf biased on me, or scum, more likely town conf biased atm)
Binatog13 (they're town probably unless they were coached to do a weird claim)
PlusJOYED (hard to be competent when you aren't here)

Competent:
NorwegianboyEE (The only competent one imo that is voting me. What are your reads Norwegian that you think the wagon on me is good?)
Titus (Titus may be a bit too competent this game but I'm unconcerned atm.)
Momrangal
chkflip (While I have concerns he is white knighting me, I feel like there is a point where you take the easy miselim and chkflip is far past that with how much he's defending me.)
Andresvmb
quiet (someone actually did their research so I don't have to go meta myself, ty)
Vaxkiller (Their content is very non-confrontational. If I had to guess where scum was in this group, I'd look at Vax.)

If PlusJOYED and Hayker are both town, scum is likely split between these two groups. A good guess for scumteam for me would be something like Gamma, Norwegian, Vax. Norwegian hopped on for some whack reasons, Gamma's vote is based off the whack tell, and Vax is just waiting for the wagon to go through without having all three on.

There's other possibilities, Titus could be in there but that'd become clearer with flips.

We have so many elims we need to go through :/

[chkflip]

You asked me why I SR you, remember?

Ha! I clearly don't. That's my bad.

Nah, you did ignore my points and you're still ignoring/dismissing them even now.

Ignoring means I've seen and have not responded to them, right? Because I feel like I've done the opposite of that. I've engaged you with your read, I've given my opinion, and I've discussed it further with others.

That's hardly ignoring.

Now, dismissing? That's far more accurate but not in the "I'm right, you're wrong, get used to it" sort of way. It's just the nature of the beast when we have such polar opposite opinions. There's less than nothing I can do about that.

I'd like to know more about your reads in general. I feel as though you've kept your cards quite close to your chest in this regard.

Read lists help scum. I'll participate eventually but for the most part I keep to a small unit of trustees that'll change with reads. Titus, molla, and DGB are in my most likely for sures right now and looking at that group of names now it's probably more because I've played with them enough that I feel like I can read them. My reads on them aren't entirely meta but it certainly helped a lot.

It isn't that I'm opposed to discussing reads, obviously, but everyone giving full-on battle strats and setting up "if/then" scenarios and so on and so forth... Idk. Its never really been the part or the game I focused on.

[BBmolla]

BB, I think what I want from you is takes on wagons that don’t involve you.

I’m still open to hearing your take on Norwegian, or how the wagon has developed or whatever else, but I’d be curious, for example, if you think Gamma is town for their push on cheeky/their play this game more generally, your current stance on Titus/chkflp, any reads you’ve formed from interactions with the Nero wagon, the rest of the game. Otherwise it kinda just feels like you’re slamming people who voted you, which has some use if you get flipped, but isn’t really a case against flipping you. And I prefer to flip scum, so if I can feel more certain about reading you, then PlusJOY or my stupid Titus/Vax push becomes more viable.

I know I'm town so I'm mostly using that info for when you all know as well

But I can look at other wagons

[BBmolla]

@mod: PlusJOYED has not posted in two days can you please prod and see if they still want to play this game