TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[Hopkirk]

so if xtoxm is scum and winter flakes is town why hasn't there been any attempt to counterwagon onto WF from anyone? i think i could like 7-8 people who've made comments at WF being scum and there's consistently been a couple of votes on them all game but there's never really been an active wagon there? it feels like people are reading them as consensus scum but like nobody wants to start a vote there

not sure why ABR is being wagoned
Infinity and I both think he's pre townie

When ABR flips town y'all are gonna need to look at posts like this and realize this is scum sitting on the sidelines letting the town eliminate town without actually trying to stop it.

nobody is voting Winter Flakes

yes winter flakes is in everyone's poe as well

why is nobody voting Winter Flakes. why is xtoxm's scumteam not even considering it?

I'm kinda partial to Hopkirk atm (might be conf!bias but i'm just pretty sure he's town here) so his vote, while I don't like it, is something I'm willing to look by

infinity thinks dann is scummy and that vote definitely adds to that for me

why are you partial to me? what are Ydrasse/Infinity/Kanna thinking here too? what are their thoughts in general
you can probably tell from me having recently voted/sussed like 4-5 people with townreads on me that i'm really concerned about being buddied right now (like i said at the end of the game where we just played where i was musing on the FL slot's buddying of me, but like not quite that scenario)

winter flakes continues to be scum, surprising no one

so. many. people.
like so many people scumread WF. a ton of other people have him in assorted POEs. there were a couple of people on WF during the bigger wagons.
unless the scumteam is like... mostly not even here... then why has town!WF never been the subject of even a probing wagon?

This is me, pointing out that mastina has read the first 14 pages, then turboskipped to engaging with the current events of the thread starting with page 76, is wholly uninformed on huge chunks of the gamestate, and yet is handing out "locktown-townblock" and "lockscum" reads while continuing to engage in the ongoing discussion in a central way, thereby centering herself in the discussion, generating more conversation and current discussion to get into (which right now is arguing in circles because it's more convenient to deliberately get into a shitspat with Oka) and further delaying her actually going back, continuing to get caught up, and rounding out her reads. After replacing into a JV slot that disengaged in what was an almost deliberate manner, reread Pages 1-10 like three fucking times and kept giving reads on those on page like fucking 50, and was generally shifty and dodgy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mastina

VOTE: Titus fine with this

Like, IV voted Titus here, in 858.
Titus townread IV in 1079.

Xtoxm said that he townreads Titus for townreading IV for scumreading Titus--which...Titus did, and IV did, exactly the way Xtoxm described.

If you had read up, you would understand that Titus wasn't caught up on the game at that point in time, and was giving out a read without that information. Oka has explained this to you. But it's more convenient for your "reads" to continue to engage in a bad faith argument and intentionally misunderstand what Oka is saying than to go back and read up.

maybe it's because i didn't read the entire post, but this felt commentary and idk why that makes Mastina scum?

[OkaPoka]

xtoxm and winterflakes are not necessarily unaligned

i think they have s/s equity

[Cephrir]

i tried voting him a while back and no one cared. i don't think i could make a very compelling case

[DrippingGoofball]

why is the worst being randomly thrown into people's scum lists

Because he's kinda null?

[Titus]

Xtoxm is never escaping the POE this game. ABR is being actively scummy, in the thread, right now. I'm fine if they are the competing wagons, people should just vote who they think is mafia

You are probably scum if this is t v t.

[OkaPoka]

i honestly think it's near impossible to form a legit alternative wagon to xtoxm and abr because creating a compelling day 1 case is incredibly hard and usually requires a mix of policy desire and hand wringing. but xtoxm and abr do have legitimate and compelling cases against them with the votes and appetite to kill so their very existence does quell legitimate discussion of other slots to an extent.

[AGar]

maybe it's because i didn't read the entire post, but this felt commentary and idk why that makes Mastina scum?

Come again?

Getting really miffed at people going "I didn't read AGar's whole post but what does AGar's post mean?"

Like, since I'm specifically focusing on Hopkirk, were you not just saying earlier that "everything you post is for a reason?" Do you not think everything I post serves a fucking purpose? At least show some basic fucking respect and actually read my fucking posts or don't fucking engage. Jesus christ, this game has been infuriating and half of it is because I feel like I'm screaming into the void because I don't take 3 sentences and turn them into seventeen god damn fucking posts. I've made my points - I feel they're salient. I haven't been fucking challenged on them or pushed in any legitimate manner outside of DGB's engagement because everyone just keeps qualifying their response with "I didn't read AGar's entire post." READ THE ENTIRE FUCKING POST. I'm putting reads out there and every time I'm asked to clarify or expand it's SOMETHING I ALREADY FUCKING SAID but y'all are too lazy to read one paragraph. It's not like I'm fucking wallposting.

[Titus]

he's scummy but like ??? it's day 1 in a large if either of you flipped town I would be frustrated but not surprised

ABR popping in to say xtoxm is town right before the elim is probably not scum-scum

Agreed.

[Ythan]

Page 100 gang

[Ythan]

@ABR what's your take on mastina or Ythan? I would vote either. I've made that clear as well. I'm not even sure who you are classifying as "running the show"

Mastin town Ythan dont know

ok well if you want to vote outside of Xtoxm, you can have my vote on Ythan. Other than that I'm not really sure what you are expecting as far as having people push outside, that's kind of a nebulous request. You're not relegated to the sidelines, you're just suggesting to make better bandwagons without giving any targets or reasons

What a joke lol

[Hopkirk]

honestly I'm vibing with Agar, I can't really align my brain with mastina at all and I would want to give her a pass and say she's not caught up, but at this point everyone has told her that and she is willfully ignoring it. Sometimes you just gotta vote scummy people and not make excuses for them. I feel the same way about ABR, I feel the same way about Xtoxm, I think they both reacted poorly to their wagons. I'll vote any of those three. I'll vote Ythan as well. That's where I'm at. If this day continues I will just keep sorting, I am not really in a hurry to end it but it seems to have intensified, so that's the four people I would vote in atm.

maybe i'm seventh impostering but i feel like my read is flipping on your slot?

Does anyone else feel like everyone is using the word vibe this game

I vibe with this

Big vibes

honestly I'm vibing with Agar, I can't really align my brain with mastina at all and I would want to give her a pass and say she's not caught up, but at this point everyone has told her that and she is willfully ignoring it. Sometimes you just gotta vote scummy people and not make excuses for them. I feel the same way about ABR, I feel the same way about Xtoxm, I think they both reacted poorly to their wagons. I'll vote any of those three. I'll vote Ythan as well. That's where I'm at. If this day continues I will just keep sorting, I am not really in a hurry to end it but it seems to have intensified, so that's the four people I would vote in atm.

This is a town post

Winter flakes doesn't look scummy to me from the past few pages. I guess this is a difference in tone reading.

it is? can you talk to me more about it

Ehhh

I need to reread the last few pages where they popped in without the obscuring force of extreme annoyance

I was very close to asking for a vibe check on that slot but realized that was probably just the OMGUS in me talking

can you review

how does everyone feel on winter flake btw? i want to kill that slot a lot too

"hey guys i'm not sure how this slot is perceived and i dont wanna push him myself buuuuuut if i can get support and not get solely blamed for when he flips green, i'd really appreciate it."

ok BUDDY

how come you didn't comment when Oka said the same thing about a pivot to ABR? that's the same thing

maybe it's because i didn't read the entire post, but this felt commentary and idk why that makes Mastina scum?

Come again?

Getting really miffed at people going "I didn't read AGar's whole post but what does AGar's post mean?"

Like, since I'm specifically focusing on Hopkirk, were you not just saying earlier that "everything you post is for a reason?" Do you not think everything I post serves a fucking purpose? At least show some basic fucking respect and actually read my fucking posts or don't fucking engage. Jesus christ, this game has been infuriating and half of it is because I feel like I'm screaming into the void because I don't take 3 sentences and turn them into seventeen god damn fucking posts. I've made my points - I feel they're salient. I haven't been fucking challenged on them or pushed in any legitimate manner outside of DGB's engagement because everyone just keeps qualifying their response with "I didn't read AGar's entire post." READ THE ENTIRE FUCKING POST. I'm putting reads out there and every time I'm asked to clarify or expand it's SOMETHING I ALREADY FUCKING SAID but y'all are too lazy to read one paragraph. It's not like I'm fucking wallposting.

i said 'everything i post is for a reason' in an exaggerated manner then made a post immediately afterwards saying 'a good reason' as a joke that the second post wasn't being made with a good reason. that one may not have landed, but not all my jokes do. some of them just become satellites

based on my general tone, from what you've observed this game do you think i hadn't actually read your entire post, or was i saying i hadn't in a somewhat jokey way while having read the post- wanting to see how you took the comment?

[Titus]

AGar coming in and saying 'this mastina nonsense' is actually scummy and like my heart wants to believe it

But I'm not sure if the brain agrees..

Join me in feeling Agar is scummy

[OkaPoka]

i honestly think it's near impossible to form a legit alternative wagon to xtoxm and abr because creating a compelling day 1 case is incredibly hard and usually requires a mix of policy desire and hand wringing. but xtoxm and abr do have legitimate and compelling cases against them with the votes and appetite to kill so their very existence does quell legitimate discussion of other slots to an extent.

another way to think about it:

cases don't exist for the person writing the case but exist for others who don't share the same gutread. xtoxm and abr both have solid enough d1 cases where people are willing to vote them above initial gut-read to the point where they can legitimately die. this scenario is not a common occurrence in 18p day 1s, a legitimate counterwagon either requires 10 people to sync up their guts (<1% odds) or someone to write up a legitimate case, which as it stands, no case is going to beat the xtoxm and abr cases unless the picture changes. so the fact that they are alive is going to dampen the effects of actually pressing slots like winter flakes, like ythan unless you can write a better case. but again the d1 problem arises where getting a better case is probably not going to happen, and getting 10 people to sync up their feelings is probably not going to happen.

[DrippingGoofball]

So I got two team mates active on Discord right now, one of whom is whacked out from wisdom teeth extraction, and the other one who isn't.

Whacked out team mate

thinks this is ABR's town meta but is not sure.

Sober team mate

thinks that ABR could fake frustration like this as scum, especially while being run up. He says that guilting the town is a very effective countermeasure to shake off a wagon, paraphrasing ABR's behavior as

"You're all ruining mafia for me because you're all so bad."

Sober team mate also judges Ythan to be deserving of human euthanasia (paraphrasing!) for his red role PM, but at the same time claims that this would not advance the game state a whole lot, to which I replied, who cares, a red flip is good enough for me. And then he specifies that it only applies if a miselim. OK, I get it! My personal opinion is that I don't care about whether a yeet is good for the gamestate or not.

[Titus]

honestly I'm vibing with Agar, I can't really align my brain with mastina at all and I would want to give her a pass and say she's not caught up, but at this point everyone has told her that and she is willfully ignoring it. Sometimes you just gotta vote scummy people and not make excuses for them. I feel the same way about ABR, I feel the same way about Xtoxm, I think they both reacted poorly to their wagons. I'll vote any of those three. I'll vote Ythan as well. That's where I'm at. If this day continues I will just keep sorting, I am not really in a hurry to end it but it seems to have intensified, so that's the four people I would vote in atm.

This is a town post

Winter flakes doesn't look scummy to me from the past few pages. I guess this is a difference in tone reading.

Hercule may just be scum with Agar and Ythan or Agar might be his pocket.

Mastina's scumreads have all started to attack and scumread her.

[OkaPoka]

So I got two team mates active on Discord right now, one of whom is whacked out from wisdom teeth extraction, and the other one who isn't.

Whacked out team mate

thinks this is ABR's town meta but is not sure.

Sober team mate

thinks that ABR could fake frustration like this as scum, especially while being run up. He says that guilting the town is a very effective countermeasure to shake off a wagon, paraphrasing ABR's behavior as

"You're all ruining mafia for me because you're all so bad."

Sober team mate also judges Ythan to be deserving of human euthanasia (paraphrasing!) for his red role PM, but at the same time claims that this would not advance the game state a whole lot, to which I replied, who cares, a red flip is good enough for me. And then he specifies that it only applies if a miselim. OK, I get it! My personal opinion is that I don't care about whether a yeet is good for the gamestate or not.

creature thinks?

[DrippingGoofball]

Xtoxm is never escaping the POE this game. ABR is being actively scummy, in the thread, right now. I'm fine if they are the competing wagons, people should just vote who they think is mafia

You are probably scum if this is t v t.

What?

How could anyone think that Ythan isn't escaping POE, or that ABR is not being at least deserving of re-examination?

Did you have your wisdom teeth extracted this morning? LOL

[DrippingGoofball]

creature thinks?

Creature is MIA.

[Hopkirk]

Herc/Agar/WF would any of you put your vote down on one of the other people in that group of 3?

[OkaPoka]

sadness tell creature i want his thoughts D:

[DrippingGoofball]

i honestly think it's near impossible to form a legit alternative wagon to xtoxm and abr because creating a compelling day 1 case is incredibly hard and usually requires a mix of policy desire and hand wringing. but xtoxm and abr do have legitimate and compelling cases against them with the votes and appetite to kill so their very existence does quell legitimate discussion of other slots to an extent.

Ythan is a legit alternative.

[Titus]

You know what

Before mastina gets back

VOTE: Xtoxm

This is frustrating as fuck. I am literally on the same wavelength as mastina and likely am stuck with my vote now.

[hercule]

@Hopkirk I think you might just be misinterpreting my feelings towards Winter Flakes. I don't think I've ever had a hard scumread on them, it was more that my teammates thought they are a bit scummy and that they should be pressured, especially peta said they would obvtown and that still hasn't happened. I voted WF just because it felt like a good place for pressure. Now we're at a point of the day where I don't want to vote anyone unless I would be okay with flipping them. I agree that I should spend more time on WF, sooner rather than later

[DrippingGoofball]

sadness tell creature i want his thoughts D:

I transmitted your request.

[OkaPoka]

i honestly think it's near impossible to form a legit alternative wagon to xtoxm and abr because creating a compelling day 1 case is incredibly hard and usually requires a mix of policy desire and hand wringing. but xtoxm and abr do have legitimate and compelling cases against them with the votes and appetite to kill so their very existence does quell legitimate discussion of other slots to an extent.

Ythan is a legit alternative.

i think ythan is a sinner but xtoxm is a greater sinner is the issue you know