Flavor Leaf vs. Hectic [Game Over]

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Post Post #2825 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:08 pm

Post by Flavor Leaf »

In post 2821, Hopkirk wrote:woah careful there, saying you've only done something as town because you haven't rolled since you started doing it can get you modkilled if your name is Elements. the same might be true if you say it about saying it while scum.
I’ve definitely done it as both alignments.

I’m pretty sure I was in the game that that happened with Elements.

Also, in regards to your other stuff,

Frankly, I think it’s just because I’m the stump, and I’m essentially scum as town here. :lol:

This is essentially what IC Flavor is like anyways
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Post Post #2826 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:18 pm

Post by Hopkirk »

Frankly, I think it’s just because I’m the stump, and I’m essentially scum as town here.
exactly, which makes the setup kinda unfun from a mechanical perspective in a way i didn't realize would suck to actually play until you falsely confirmed 4 other people as town & then moreso overnight when i realized 'so it's objectively terrible play not to just follow the stump's reads in terms of voting people out because they have significantly more information than we do unless they intentionally avoid it by choosing to have 0 masons or similar'.

the issue i've got is that
that's the correct pro-town play for you to make
+ the sheer amount of information you're going to have available to you exclusively. i feel like there's a lot of easy fixes to that since the stump feels overinformed right now. making it so that the stump isn't in a PT with masons + doesn't know which of their picks actually got mason in the end would go a ways towards fixing this.

like right now i'm actively concerned about scumhunting because
it's outright better to follow whatever FL says as a vote
due to how the setup works.

(fortunately there's a great playerlist :) )
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Post Post #2827 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:36 pm

Post by Flavor Leaf »

In post 2826, Hopkirk wrote:
Frankly, I think it’s just because I’m the stump, and I’m essentially scum as town here.
exactly, which makes the setup kinda unfun from a mechanical perspective in a way i didn't realize would suck to actually play until you falsely confirmed 4 other people as town & then moreso overnight when i realized 'so it's objectively terrible play not to just follow the stump's reads in terms of voting people out because they have significantly more information than we do unless they intentionally avoid it by choosing to have 0 masons or similar'.

the issue i've got is that
that's the correct pro-town play for you to make
+ the sheer amount of information you're going to have available to you exclusively. i feel like there's a lot of easy fixes to that since the stump feels overinformed right now. making it so that the stump isn't in a PT with masons + doesn't know which of their picks actually got mason in the end would go a ways towards fixing this.

like right now i'm actively concerned about scumhunting because
it's outright better to follow whatever FL says as a vote
due to how the setup works.

(fortunately there's a great playerlist :) )
I think it's definitely a different type of game, and when you compare it to regular Mafia, it's going to be different.

I like to see the versus more as literal team vs team, which all Mafia is, but this moreso, so the game just has to be played a bit differently.

I need townies to solve still, so it's not like I'm in it alone.

You could still find scum, but yes, FL vs Hectic is a part of it.

I don't think there should be a lot of VS games, however.
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Post Post #2828 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:38 pm

Post by Hopkirk »

Quick disclaimer - these are just roughly how i'm reading people. The exact wording of the song/title may not be
exactly
right. It's just a vibe.

Spoiler:

Hectic

my all time favourite anime antagonist


Catboi

i'm leaning towards


but i'm also getting some of these vibes


Dannflor

rip


Venus Mars and Pluto

good vibes, but there's three of them so really good vibes


Skitter30

good vibes, but there's thirty of them so ridiculously good vibes


Ydrasse

:oops:


Gamma

our surviving mason, probably immortal


Lunar Martian

are they even here?


Starcrossed

i just can't stay mad at you pooky


MorningTweet

the vibes feel off


Unwnd

the town stump doesn't like this slot


Xtoxm

not posting much and not a big fan of the setup?


Flavor Leaf

god king emperor of the town


Titus

when Titus hammered Dann



Firebringer

i don't think hectic picked here


Chara

sus tbh lol


RCEngima

i have no idea what this title means and i can barely remember your posting. a perfect match


The general gamestate with FL around

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Post Post #2829 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:40 pm

Post by Flavor Leaf »

You nailed it.
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Post Post #2830 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:41 pm

Post by Hopkirk »

well most of those worked and 17/19 is one of pooky's all time favourite fractions so i'm counting that as a win.
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Post Post #2831 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:55 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

In post 2822, Hopkirk wrote:don't think i'd play again with this kind of setup design because i feel like what i do doesn't matter what most people think when there's a more informed confirmed town around. like sure, a confirmed town is fine because they can be wrong, but the level of informed they have above the rest of us just like... really makes this screwy to play and not especially enjoyable as a setup (good thing there's good vibes to make up for it).
dude

do you know how much easier it is to pocket ONE person than like half of the town

i love this format I just have to make FL love me and I'm set
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Post Post #2832 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:56 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

I'm not sure your complaints make sense Hop.

We are all here to prove our worth and value to our great Overlord Flavor Leaf.

I am PUMPED to play this game for him
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Post Post #2833 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:57 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

omg hop

i love billie eilish

I guess I will spare you after all
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Post Post #2834 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:03 pm

Post by Flavor Leaf »

one by
one by

one
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Post Post #2835 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:05 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

dude do you know how pumped I am to be on the same side as you for the first time ever.

PUMPED I SAY

PUMPED
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Post Post #2836 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:05 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

if you actually need me to scumhunt lemme know

otherwise I'm just gonna chill and shit post
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Post Post #2837 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:06 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

you should have this game fucking solved already

you're just stalling cuz you want to get the perfect guitar solo to woo Ydrasse

you're like me

you're a romantic in the heart and a perfectionist in the brain
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Post Post #2838 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:07 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

i'm soulvibing with you so hard dude it's like lit

we gotta do drugs together some time
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Post Post #2839 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:07 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

I've never tried to pocket someone so hard damn

but you're worth it dude
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Post Post #2840 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:14 pm

Post by Flavor Leaf »

The pocket's working, if that helps ya out :lol:

And I have that artist's curse to top it all off too
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Post Post #2841 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:18 pm

Post by Flavor Leaf »

@Xtoxm - We haven't conversed much this game. =/
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Post Post #2842 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:25 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

In post 2840, Flavor Leaf wrote:The pocket's working, if that helps ya out :lol:

And I have that artist's curse to top it all off too
I'm just sad it took 6 games for us to finally get on the same side

you're a better soul mason than Hectic tbh that dude didn't even recruit me
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Post Post #2843 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:40 pm

Post by unwnd »

I have a question to you guys

Is Hectic a chaotic scum? I do love the positive vibes but it's still mafia and I have my own takes about the game
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Post Post #2844 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:43 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

I would say yea he's pretty chaotic but he's not
unpredictable
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Post Post #2845 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:45 pm

Post by unwnd »

I mean if town is just kumbaya music reads happy time I feel like there's probably a mole

It pains me to say that however

I also wonder if he'd just let his scum slank like that, even if they couldn't keep up?
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Post Post #2846 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:46 pm

Post by Flavor Leaf »

Nah, there's probably a scum in the town reads somewhere.

In fact, I'm sure of it.
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Post Post #2847 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:50 pm

Post by Starcrossed »

gimme the list

ill hunt down the mole
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Post Post #2848 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:57 pm

Post by catboi »

Not to kill the funtime vibes, but I went through Dannflor's ISO to scrape for any sort of interactions, and this is what I came away with. My theory is that Dann made a few posts when the ame was in an RVS-ish state, fell behind, and came back realizing he was under pressure and in trouble, and so deliberately started forcing interactions. I also think scum are more likely to have voteparked Dann rather than defend him after FL publicly voiced suspicion, it's too risky to have moved off. I'm not saying Dann interacted with all of his teammates, In fact I'd say for sure there's a scum in the people he didn't really interact with at all, but right now it's easier for me to look at the info on people he DID interact with.

Dannflor/Morning Tweet:

Out of all the votes on him, Dann makes a particular point of calling out Tweet's vote on, asking her to explain it (). He says her posting is "nice, a little fence-sitty, and fairly thorough" but doesn't make a conclusion on her and continues to want to ask her about her vote: "curious to know the thought process behind it" () and asks her what caused her to unvote gamma (). He later soft defends Tweet, saying "That seems like a strange slot for a top scum read" () In 1969 he defends her by saying "I'm interested in scum reads on Morning Tweet because I don't really see anything that sticks out as not within town!Tweet's MO" but then votes her with his last post in , in a move that doesn't really make much sense.

This was what grabbed my attention when I looking back at his posts overnight, the way he seemed to particularly put attention on tweet out of the people voting him, but didn't seem to really want to push her, making these small defenses of her even as he was trying to question her. The last minute votepark looks like a desperation move rather than any wago he thought might actually go through.

Dannflor/Venus Mars and Pluto:

Dann banters with Auro a little in , Auro says if he's scum he'll catch him, Dann asks him what's going on. He later asks Auro if he has a read on anyone (). Says Nancy shouldn't be town reading him but doesn't say she's suspicious for it, which is a weird comment to make? But maybe less likely to call a partner's read on him out in this way.

I don't think any of this is inherently clearing but don't think Nancy makes such an impassioned defense of Dann when FL's mind is set, as I said above.

Dannflor/RCEnigma:

Dann asks RCE about his early little readflip on me ( ), then says he likes RCE's setup spec theorizing about skitter's claim and scum roles based around positioning (). He writes a long post defending RCE as town based on tone and saying his fluff posting isn't scummy ().

I could go either way here. I don't have any strong conclusions to draw based on this.

Dannflor/Gamma:

Dannflor immediately jumping on Gamma's entrance post (241 + 250) and questioning me when I said the speed of the viotes was too fast (277) is way more likely to be non-partner behavior. He later justifies this by saying "his entrance was awkward" and he wanted to see what he'd do after in 1577. He then walks the read back in 1581 by saying Gamma's posting is good and he didn't overreact.

I'm pretty sure Gamma is just town based on this, him giving the townread seems to be bowing to thread consensus as much as anything.

Dannflor/Starcrossed:

Early game Dann asks about why skitter finds pooky scummy, saying he "has not disliked their posting so far" () but then flips it and votes him just a short while later in . I don't see what prompted this flip, Starcrossed only made 1 post in between speculating about who Hectic would draft.

This on itself isn't much but it does feel slightly anti-partnery, I don't think he decides to shift his opinion on a teammate so readily in the early game.

Dannflor/unwnd:

Dannflor naked votes unwnd in . He asks him what his read on the Venus/Pluto slot is () and says the way he's treating the slot isn't genuine () and that the way he engages with Nancy is LAMIST (). He continues to argue with him about this in , unwnd says Dann is making assumptions based on one or two instances of dialogue when there's more to it, Dann argues with him more about how to read Nancy. He continues to discuss how to read Nancy with unwnd in .

This was probably the most sustained interaction Dann had with anyone, if I squinted really hard I could see it as potential distancing but unwnd was maybe he most viable push of the people voting him, and the way they get sidetracked into debating a read over VMP doesn't feel like the route teammates would take in arguing. I individually townread unwnd overall because I think he wouldn't pull this weird pseudo-jester act as scum so I'd say this reinforces that read.

Dannflor/skitter30:

skitter asks Dann how he's reading her, he says he doesn't have one (). Later he says he had her as possible scum based on her read of RCEnigma () and then says he went to her iso to "look who to vote for" by sheeping her (). In he says "I just know you to be skilled as both alignments and I usually treat slots that I view as better than me with more caution than I normally would". Tonally, doesn't feel like how he talks to a partner, there's a little bit of timidity in how he reacts to her voting him, he doesn't question her or attack her on it, like he's wary of getting on her bad side.

I think from these actions he was trying to subtly get skitter to stop suspecting him, and it worked, which makes me think skitter is unlikely to be a partner.

Dannflor/Titus:

After his extended absence from hyperposting, the first person Dann mentions is Titus, saying "Titus is freaking me out a little bit but that's not quite a read yet" (). He comments on her reads list in , criticizing it and again saying it "freaks him out" and puts suspicion on her for it. Also disputes her saying he had a strong start. Later says he wants to vote Titus ().

There's not a lot to go off here, but similar to Tweet, the attention toward her in particular feels unusual and it could be a desperate attempt to force interaction after he came under pressure, the lack of follow-through makes it suspect, I think.
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Post Post #2849 (ISO) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:59 pm

Post by unwnd »

Skitter
catboi
Gamma
[Ydrasse]
Chara

That's my list for potential mole
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