TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[mastina]

ythan - he had one post that pinged me 728

"You are not authorized to read this topic"
This was probably approved by the rest of his team before-hand.

True, tho that doesn't mean Xtoxm is scum.

It does however reaffirm my lack of desire to defend Xtoxm anymore tho.

[Dunnstral]

I voted you at daystart based on a legitimate ping, but clearly that's not some indictment of your slot, it's the first page. it was a fine vote, it was a fine place to pressure

No dude I think you're lying sorry

Also to have them at the bottom of your reads for this post with no other explanation is weak

[mastina]

OkaPoka
Titus
Dannflor
Hopkirk
Dunnstral
the worst

Albert B. Rampage
Xtoxm

innocentvillager
unwnd

Uncrowned
DrippingGoofball
Ythan
Almost50



AGar

Cephrir
hercule

Townbloc, townreads outside the townbloc I've no doubts on, gut-check as town, to-sort-townreads-which-must-contain-1/2-scum, scumread, strong scumreads.

[Dunnstral]

dunn you remember this from last year drink hop is towwwwwwn

I don't remember

Also the premise seems silly

[innocentvillager]

ythan - he had one post that pinged me 728

"You are not authorized to read this topic"

This was probably approved by the rest of his team before-hand.

wait a second what the fuck

so this was written in a PT then previewed then copy-pasted over here right

[OkaPoka]

I REALLY like this post.

I read that post in its entirety.

That I had nothing to say about it should tell you that I didn't.

Ditto for 2836. Which gets the same treatment: there was nothing to like in that post.

{okapoka, ducky, danny, cephrir, hercule}
{dunny, unwnd, hopkirk, IV}
{xtoxm, abr, winter flakes, a50, agar, mastina}
{ythan, titus, dgb}

this is how im grouping the game ~ and I think scum have divided themselves into these groups because if I were scum this is how I would have positioned the game out. but i will say if any grouping has two scums, its in the opposition (but im biased).

distribution in my head probably looks like 1 1 1 1 or 1 0 2 1 or 1 1 2 0 or 0 1 2 1

Oka, the very fact that scum are distributed among the groups mean that you should have a total dissolution of the groups, and rebuild the groups so that they're entirely grouped by alignment.

If the bloc has scum in it (considering your bloc has both Cephrir and hecule I guarantee it does), then you need to eject the scum from it: remove them from the group, discard their input, and fundamentally reevaluate.
If the allies have scum in it (eh, possible, but my gutcheck says all-town in there), then you need to eject the scum from it: remove them from the group, discard their input, and fundamentally reevaluate.
If the opposition has town in it (and I would say that all but one, mayyyyyyybe in a stretch 2, of the names in there are town), then you need to eject the town from it: remove them from the group, accept their input, and fundamentally reevaluate, taking the input of the town into account.

There's a difference from a D1 solve that you know is incomplete and flawed due to it being D1, and a fundamental acceptance of a flawed paradigm which even you the maker of it realize and know to be fundamentally wrong and serving to let scum blend in.

The former allows the town to have a rudimentary solve that, while imperfect, is more accurate than not.
The acceptance of the latter allows the scum to blend in because they're equally divided and have infiltrated each group, giving them a disproportionate amount of sway, meaning that the scum are never truly threatened as long as this paradigm is accepted as acceptable.

The thing is, I'm accepting the reality of scum infiltrating my 'group' because while I think it's likely, I'm not entirely sure who. I'm not entirely sure who and I don't think I am willing yet to start sacrificing members of the bloc to find the mole, I think scum will do that for us and cut the numbers down because people in this bloc are the most threatening to scum in lylo, and if scum aren't bothering about trying to set up a win, all the better for us. All it means is that in the future, you can reference this again and not get skitter'd. It's something you can use as reference in the future to remember how it felt in day 1, instead of hindsighting. Like a primary source of sorts.

Meanwhile, there are certain people that are just never going to be nightkilled and if they continue, always just going to be a LHF target, you know? Can never escape the PoE and don't really help other people solve the game. I want to look in that box first. I think as more days go by, the people who are willing to post a lot are going to be more sortable, but if you never are willing to post or explain things, you aren't going to be that sortable ever. You will always be there, lurking in poes, maybe scum maybe not.

If this were nightless, you are goddamn right I'd be investigating more. Dunnstral can vouch that in Epilogue! I tried the hardest to prevent an LHF flip first. But it's not, nightkills will happen, if I'm going to start somewhere it's going to be with the groupings that I don't perceive as nk fodder and also I perceive as +scum equity.

[mastina]

The thing is, I'm accepting the reality of scum infiltrating my 'group' because while I think it's likely, I'm not entirely sure who.

So take the feedback from those outside of your group, the feedback which comes from players who must contain some town, because they very much would be all too happy to tell you.

Which is why I said: you need to yeet the scum from the group and discard their input, AND, remove the town from the opposition and

take

their input.

[OkaPoka]

going to consult my team when they are available

ive also kept some reads private that my team has made, they are quite plot twisty

but if we want some plot twists, say it now or hold your peace forever

i trust town can manage without our team's sekkrit reads but if we want, we can go down a dark and bloody path

[mastina]

especially having his teammates input with developed thoughts so early in the game speaks good things towards his alignment

(Yes I am reading; yes I'm this far back)
Btw speaking of teammates, due to me not using discord much I really can't decipher the discord talk where my team is doing most of its talking, but in our team PT, Johnny offered to do isos for me if I needed his help; I basically turned him down.
(I said that if he wanted to do so, to feel free to, but his offer was given with, if I need help, and I told him that I don't need his help, essentially, so it's only something he'd do if he wants to.)

So, presumably am flying solo, but hey, never know; he could follow through. I'll let you know if he does.

[mastina]

but if we want some plot twists, say it now or hold your peace forever

Frankly, literally the only thing which'd count as a plot twist from you is you townreading Xtoxm. Literally any other read from you isn't a plot twist.

[mastina]

(Also on the note of teams. I didn't bother to look up who the teams really are. I figured that it wouldn't be necessary unless a player who has a teammate reading the game thread has me as a scumread, which would be a potential red flag depending on who the teammate was, but I've not done the research there. I probably should tho. But reading the pages is probably more important.)

[OkaPoka]

has there ever been a 'towncore' without a scum in it

[OkaPoka]

mastina you seem like the best person to talk about the history of towncores in different games so ill leave that question to you

[OkaPoka]

if im going to go for a massive high variance play

i might as well have a history lesson to go to boot with it

[OkaPoka]

@mastina who on my team should i trust the most for a second opinion

[mastina]

ok Datisi scumreads me like every game at this point lmaoooo

lame excuse

town: hercule, Dannflor, AGar
conflicted: the worst/Daddisi hydra
scum: VOTE: unwnd

Why is unwnd scum?

nvm i don't really scumread unwnd yet
but i will be watching u closely sir

i guess i want to understand what happened here, IV? this is just a very weird sequence of events to me

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

choosing this moment right after being prodded by dunn to go after him didn't really resonate w me; also feels a bit like a chainsaw

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

hmm maybe part of it was me thinking the "not necessarily both together" was a bit awkward LOL

i get having to go back and figure out what you were thinking at a given moment but it was like 2 posts ago? why are we "hmm maybe if we interpret the entrails this way" ing about an opinion that you literally just posted

It feels like you're making this up as you go along and tacking on whatever reason to scumread me

i am, is that scummy?

y... yes?

Dunnstral mega town off of this interaction.

UNVOTE: Dunnstralim willing to do this but can you explain how you got "megatown"?

after that whole exchange, someone else's opinion is the thing that gets you to unvote? what

ythan town

From what I understand, IV likes being town. His best option if he's not town is to lead with nonsense and then assume someone town reads him by his gestures; this can include fluffy nonsense. The way he convinced himself that you were scummy did not sit right for me.

this might actually be a real thought because this is exactly what I tried to do to (while pocketing the worst) in Mini 2160! but i can't do that anymore, it only works once. im curious as to how you know me so well... my towngames you've seen me in were pretty different
pedit: what are you confused/thinking about?

what on earth does the likelihood of this thought being real have to do with you happening to have done that in some other game
are you some sort of space alien i don't get these processes

Cephrir's push on IV here feels rather forced and opportunistic--at the time, innocentvillager was the leading wagon, and Cephrir's analysis was forcing a scumread onto the slot. It feels like Cephrir is inventing reasons to force a read onto a slot that was already under heavy pressure at the time.

[Cephrir]

If we pressure more people we will have better reads and form more visible connections.

and yet you seem to object to us doing this

[Cephrir]

ok Datisi scumreads me like every game at this point lmaoooo

lame excuse

town: hercule, Dannflor, AGar
conflicted: the worst/Daddisi hydra
scum: VOTE: unwnd

Why is unwnd scum?

nvm i don't really scumread unwnd yet
but i will be watching u closely sir

i guess i want to understand what happened here, IV? this is just a very weird sequence of events to me

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

choosing this moment right after being prodded by dunn to go after him didn't really resonate w me; also feels a bit like a chainsaw

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

hmm maybe part of it was me thinking the "not necessarily both together" was a bit awkward LOL

i get having to go back and figure out what you were thinking at a given moment but it was like 2 posts ago? why are we "hmm maybe if we interpret the entrails this way" ing about an opinion that you literally just posted

It feels like you're making this up as you go along and tacking on whatever reason to scumread me

i am, is that scummy?

y... yes?

Dunnstral mega town off of this interaction.

UNVOTE: Dunnstralim willing to do this but can you explain how you got "megatown"?

after that whole exchange, someone else's opinion is the thing that gets you to unvote? what

ythan town

From what I understand, IV likes being town. His best option if he's not town is to lead with nonsense and then assume someone town reads him by his gestures; this can include fluffy nonsense. The way he convinced himself that you were scummy did not sit right for me.

this might actually be a real thought because this is exactly what I tried to do to (while pocketing the worst) in Mini 2160! but i can't do that anymore, it only works once. im curious as to how you know me so well... my towngames you've seen me in were pretty different
pedit: what are you confused/thinking about?

what on earth does the likelihood of this thought being real have to do with you happening to have done that in some other game
are you some sort of space alien i don't get these processes

Cephrir's push on IV here feels rather forced and opportunistic--at the time, innocentvillager was the leading wagon, and Cephrir's analysis was forcing a scumread onto the slot. It feels like Cephrir is inventing reasons to force a read onto a slot that was already under heavy pressure at the time.

if you were someone else i'd ask you what about this post makes it seem invented, but since you're mastina you will tell me it just feels like scum

[mastina]

has there ever been a 'towncore' without a scum in it

Quite often in fact, especially on days later than D1. A towncore without scum is quite easy to make if the town can identify other town as town, rather than identifying people who have similar takes as them as being town. (The latter is what lets deepscum infiltrate the town's core.)

@mastina who on my team should i trust the most for a second opinion

Honestly, depends. If Nancy has actually been actively following along this game and reading all of the pages rather than skimming/isoing, then her takes on some players are probably pretty good (Nancy should be able to tell this is my towngame for instance, and if she can't that alone is proof she's not reading in detail). But only IF she's actively been following along this game and reading all of the pages rather than skimming/isoing. If she's been skimming/isoing, less so.

If DKKoba treated this game like they were a replacement replacing in, then they could possibly be better, but given that DKKoba's style tends to be fairly reliant on getting reactions to their posts, you'd have needed to basically been their avatar, pushing their thoughts in and allowing them to get reactions to those thoughts. That dynamic absent, probably not DKKoba.

In general, I'd probably say Pooky's the best one to trust just generically so (Nancy could situationally be better, DKKoba also could situationally be better), so if neither of the situations I mentioned are true, then yeah, I'd trust Pooky the most, since Pooky as a player even when not heavily invested/involved still has fairly good takes/reads.

[Cephrir]

what are the chances that the thread we aren't allowed to read is the scum pt vs a team pt

is this angleshooting, it feels like angleshooting

[Cephrir]

mastina if i were scum and you were not i'd be yeeting you for things i know are playstyle and i'd probably be getting away with it

just saying

[mastina]

if you were someone else i'd ask you what about this post makes it seem invented, but since you're mastina you will tell me it just feels like scum

It's invented because of you calling the excuse lame rather than explaining why the excuse is scummy; you call the sequence of events weird rather than scummy; saying the vote on Dunn doesn't resonate rather than calling the vote OMGUS is out of place; the entire time, you're avoiding calling IV scum and yet are shading IV. Given the wagon on IV at the time and the lack of commitment, that screams scum forcing an opportunistic read rather than a genuine read.

[Cephrir]

The biggest shift for me was that post 1567 was straight up TMIing. He had to go back and justify a town read and he slipped - when I was run up I wasn't "doing content", I had like 5 posts. 2 were at you in the early phase, then there was my post that got me run up, a snarky reply about "I dared vote for ABR" and then my spat with Ceph. When I called him out on it, he handwaved it off that I was "nitpicking." (1632)

this is pretty fair actually

[Cephrir]

if you were someone else i'd ask you what about this post makes it seem invented, but since you're mastina you will tell me it just feels like scum

It's invented because of you calling the excuse lame rather than explaining why the excuse is scummy; you call the sequence of events weird rather than scummy; saying the vote on Dunn doesn't resonate rather than calling the vote OMGUS is out of place; the entire time, you're avoiding calling IV scum and yet are shading IV. Given the wagon on IV at the time and the lack of commitment, that screams scum forcing an opportunistic read rather than a genuine read.

holy shit you did it

im proud of you

[Dannflor]

I have slots I want to reconsider and reads to push

I’m also under no illusion that the proposed oka town core is air tight, I have my own suspicions there

But I want to kill xtoxm before any of that