Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2-4

In recent years, international news stories have emerged reporting on development projects halted in Iceland due to the potential for disturbing elf habitats. in 2015, a new road was being laid through an area of the lava field of Gálgahraun that was believed to be enchanted. After many failed attempts, where heavy machinery had continually broken down for no apparent reason and numerous workers had suffered freak accidents, the construction company moved the road so that it would bypass the elfin community completely.

(Maybe they had a little help from local environmentalists? Nah.)

Salsabil Faria

(2): floo, quiet

Spartan117

(1): Fredrick A Campbell

Fredrick A Campbell

(1): Salsabil Faria

quiet

(1): flow trap

floo

(1): Prism

Not Voting

(1): Spartan117

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline: January 30, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-01-29 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Prism]

I'll visit that post later floo but I want to phrase what I'm saying another, perhaps more kind/generous way.

I get that some players like flow trap/Frederick think keeping things close to your chest is a strength, and I get that multiple players are paranoid of me. On some level I can adapt to this but

my entire strength as a player is helping others avoid thinking incorrectly and to sharpen their own reads, rather than winning the game off the strength of my own

. I work best as an amplifier. The entire point of my day has been to get these thoughts out of players, both to sort them and to utilize their own strengths as players. What makes the "setting up" and vague accusations deeply frustrating is that I'm trying to figure out how to set up certain players to succeed only to get rebuffed/ignored/paranoia voted.

[floo]

I'm trying to quote another game but I can't figure out how to (the server says something like "Forum is locked"), so I'll just post links to relevant posts from other games Sal has played. Newbie 2035 has no relevant posts to the current discussion, and Newbie 2042 is ongoing (I did not read that). Because the entire length of each one of these completed games is shorter than our Day One and Sal has mostly stayed under the radar as town, I have found only one relevant example.

Newbie 2039
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12298058
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12299804
In this game we see Salsabil responding to a bad accusation (I agree that triple posting is a bad reason for a scumread). She asks the accuser to substantiate their vote and, when the reason is stated, calls it out as a "crappy reason" and asks them to argue rationally. All while including elements of mocking/dismissiveness/flippantness (whatever you want to call it) mixed into her language. Big difference from this game.

[flow trap]

Key:
Yellow - Neutral due to little interaction
Gray - Neutral due to equal evidence both ways
Green - More likely
Orange - Less Likely

Salsa + Spartan: Salsa's TR on Spartan felt like they were not partners here; if Spartan is mafia I don't see Salsa being one as if they were scum their actions felt mildly pockety

Prism + Quiet: While I do think this combo would NK Zoomer, Prism has been at Safe's throat the entire time, and then when Quiet showed up Prism started being helpful to them, so I saw some town emotions in play

Salsa + FaC: Overall neutral but FaC had some questionable actions towards Salsa, but I found Salsa's actions towards FaC felt non-teammate; May NK zoomer

Floo + FaC: Spartan called FaC's vote on Floo odd and I don't think that would be an SvS situation, even if Spartan is mafia making it up, they still can't be partners

Quiet + FaC: I think this team would NK Zoomer otherwise haven't read into this that much tbh

Prism + FaC: If Prism is indeed setting up town to fail in the way I'm thinking, then FaC couldn't be their partner; I lean town on both of them anyways

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa, I suspect quite, what do you think of that?

VOTE: Quiet

Seems like he is playing the LAMIST card (refer: 1129) at the moment. Day 1 and Day 2 playing style of his is different, specially after the

esotericzoomer

's flip.

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm trying to quote another game but I can't figure out how to (the server says something like "Forum is locked"), so I'll just post links to relevant posts from other games Sal has played. Newbie 2035 has no relevant posts to the current discussion, and Newbie 2042 is ongoing (I did not read that). Because the entire length of each one of these completed games is shorter than our Day One and Sal has mostly stayed under the radar as town, I have found only one relevant example.

Newbie 2039
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12298058
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12299804
In this game we see Salsabil responding to a bad accusation (I agree that triple posting is a bad reason for a scumread). She asks the accuser to substantiate their vote and, when the reason is stated, calls it out as a "crappy reason" and asks them to argue rationally. All while including elements of mocking/dismissiveness/flippantness (whatever you want to call it) mixed into her language. Big difference from this game.

Yes, it is.

esotericzoomer

mentioned it on his wall of ratings/reads thing. I'm trying to improve my gameplay in each game. It doesn't matter if I win this game or not, but I can say that I improved a lot in this game, specially on reading people from the posts and I'm proud of myself for this.

[floo]

How is shortening your responses to a scumread from discussing its merits to 2 laughing emojis an improvement?

[Salsabil Faria]

Key:
Yellow - Neutral due to little interaction
Gray - Neutral due to equal evidence both ways
Green - More likely
Orange - Less Likely

Salsa + Spartan: Salsa's TR on Spartan felt like they were not partners here; if Spartan is mafia I don't see Salsa being one as if they were scum their actions felt mildly pockety

Prism + Quiet: While I do think this combo would NK Zoomer, Prism has been at Safe's throat the entire time, and then when Quiet showed up Prism started being helpful to them, so I saw some town emotions in play

Salsa + FaC: Overall neutral but FaC had some questionable actions towards Salsa, but I found Salsa's actions towards FaC felt non-teammate; May NK zoomer

Floo + FaC: Spartan called FaC's vote on Floo odd and I don't think that would be an SvS situation, even if Spartan is mafia making it up, they still can't be partners

Quiet + FaC: I think this team would NK Zoomer otherwise haven't read into this that much tbh

Prism + FaC: If Prism is indeed setting up town to fail in the way I'm thinking, then FaC couldn't be their partner; I lean town on both of them anyways

It's getting funnier

[flow trap]

You're doing a great job at ignoring me

[flow trap]

I require posts to make posts

[quiet]

Why are you not willing to vote Fredrick? are you protecting him or something? It's very odd to me how you would rather vote Floo than vote Fredrick, I feel like while Floo hasnt posted the quantity of the rest their posts have had a lot of content and reads and have overall provided towards the town, while fredrick has yet in my eyes to provide a meaningful post, like this post of yours just gives me sus vibes that you can see your scum partner is struggling and youre trying to help guide him.

What from fredricks posts indicates to you he is townie, I have checked and I dont regard any of their posts to be legitimate pushes on players or any reads or anything of the like. It appears to me he wishes to be a passenger on this train and ride along posting without getting noticed, and I feel the only reason he didnt get lynched D1 was because Enchant was more of an attraction for everyone to jump on instead while he hid in the shadows.

I’ve yet to roll Maf since I started playing form mafia, but there is no way in hell this is how I’d defend my partner. This is a lot closer to what I might do if I wanted to distance myself from a miselim, where I had the extra info to know that it would be a miselim. I don’t see a lot of utility in my obviously jumping into the main thread to talk about not voting my partner; I think I’d save the encouragement for the PT. I could give a pep talk! That would be fun. Either way, I don’t have that extra info now; I’ve just been burned frequently by sussing low content posters. Mafia, especially good mafia, which are the scary kind, don’t play like Fred in actuality in my short experience, though it seems to be a frequent idea.

They play like floo, or prism, or sometimes even flow. They maybe play like me. They def play like salsa. I’m sure sometimes they just check out and don’t post much content, but from my perspective that’s a fine RVS/day1 vote that gets worse and worse as time goes on. I think Fredrick will give me more details to help sort them in later days. I don’t think a scum floo or scum prism EVER gives me more details in future days unless they are mechanically forced out of them. There are plenty of people pushing the Fredrick wagon without me being on it. If we get to the end of the day and my choices are vote Fred or we don’t elim, then I’d vote Fred, but I don’t think Fredrick has any trouble getting elimmed today, so if it is a miselim, it forces scum to try harder, and if it’s actually scum, then congrats to us for catching one of them so quickly and with so little effort. I think that’s my thinking there.

I don’t read Fredrick as towny. I read them as null. I don’t want a miselim today, and Frederick is an easy one from my perspective. They are going to be suspicious for the is entire game moving forward. Do you think the extra time let’s them...disappear somehow? I compleatly agree with your last stamsnrt. They only reason they didn’t get elimmed day1 was because of enchant. I don’t particularly think this makes Fredrick a good day2 elim though; scum didn’t need to create a counterwagon, and beyond light day1 scummyness (which frankly is little better than RVS), there’s nothing that makes me feel confident about Fredrick as scum. I’d like to sort someone else. That’s where I’m at, though if you can point me towards a clear scumslip, or something beyond just day1 mehness, I don’t want to vote them RN. I just don’t like it.

[quiet]

You had no problem calling me town Day 1. One of the things that most bothered me about your slot was that 793 was spot on. My intuition was that you had the assistance of knowing my alignment. It annoyed me to think that I could be read off of a single post but in this case it's true-in no world do I step in to rein in flow trap there, and my meta establishes this extremely well. I can backlink you later if you want but the only time I did similar as scum was my first game onsite, and I lost for it. Realizing this was unfair and that I needed to set my pride aside was a big part of why I backed off today

I think I noted in that same post that you would be a scary scum. But frankly, it’s been a really busy few days, and I forgot about that specific reason I townread you day1. I think you are right that I’m probably being too unfair in regards to your slot. I’ll move on to trying to sort Floo now, my other “oh god please be town thx” slot.

As for why Spartian is disqualified from this same paranoia? I think that’s coming from a combination of frequency, detail, and how blantant they are being with their reads. If you pretend I’ve forgotten about the very towny town cohesion thing, what we have are two slots who both post super high quality content at a slower more deliberate pace (floo is further on the spectrum of the slow deliberate pace than you are) that I don’t know how I’m going to sort. So, I wanted to propose the wagons and see if anyone bit on either one.

Can’t help you on the extra assistance/tmi thing, I don’t think townreading someone working on town cohesion is a crazy read.

[quiet]

To clarify for anyone else, Prism is back in my townbucket. I’m a sucker for people who de-escalate fights, what can I say.

[quiet]

In post 662, quiet wrote:
One such thing: Hi Salsa, nice to be here, you’re town asf.
Is there any change in Sal's posting style that makes you scumread her, or did you vote her upon reviewing her posts and finding that they were not as towny as you originally believed?

I was originally in awe of Salsa’s formatting. Someday I will be that useful. Salsa was also putting in a lot of work day1, which I tend to like to a certain point.

I still need to go metadive to see if the defensiveness is NAI, but seeing it a couple times (and also given the fight with Flow that Prism helpfully reminded me of), I think that and a few other things added up in my head (I’m also thinking of how aware Salsa was of the town/scum wincon of “oh jeez we really need to not get another miselim today or we are in big trouble”, that’s not something I think most people say or being up or are deeply counting day2) to make me start feeling like a scumSalsa world could be a thing. It doesn’t help that so many people in this thread are towny as hell or capable of playing very pro-town, so my AoE is really small.

[quiet]

In this game we see Salsabil responding to a bad accusation (I agree that triple posting is a bad reason for a scumread). She asks the accuser to substantiate their vote and, when the reason is stated, calls it out as a "crappy reason" and asks them to argue rationally. All while including elements of mocking/dismissiveness/flippantness (whatever you want to call it) mixed into her language. Big difference from this game

Maybe I’m misreading this, but what you’re describing sounds kinda similar to what she’s done so far. Asking for reasons, asking for substantiation, dismissiveness, etc. I’ll go read them myself, but where are you seeing the differences in this game from what you’ve stated?

[quiet]

Prism + FaC: If Prism is indeed setting up town to fail in the way I'm thinking, then FaC couldn't be their partner; I lean town on both of them anyways

This is one hot take of a Prism read embedded in here. I was about to give a response about how my paranoia over that slot comes from a very different place, and it did not seem to me whatever that Prism was maneuvering town to fail, very much the opposite, the fear being that they were using +town maneuvering to try to get townread as scum.

And halfway through writing this, I noted that you townlean on both slots, which makes most of the first half of this post useless, but that’s also kinda another hot take, this time for your Fred townlean. Where’s that coming out of? I’m all on board the null train, but if you have town things I can use to sort them, I wanna hear it.

[quiet]

Seems like he is playing the LAMIST card (refer: 1129) at the moment. Day 1 and Day 2 playing style of his is different, specially after the esotericzoomer's flip.

Mm my first game I didn’t know they had a word for players like me. LAMIST. Yes. Sounds about right.

Afraid y’all have been getting mostly the worst of me this game. Hoping to step that up moving forward.

Finding out that I forgot one of my two strong townreads from day1 (Flow Trap the Chaos God, and Prism the Diplomat) is making me think I need to just reread everything again. I don’t have a ton of directed questions for you at this time, but will get back to you if something comes up.

And that catches me up! Floo, anything that might help me sort you? Previous games, etc?

[flow trap]

Prism the Diplomat

Hold up, explain

[quiet]

Deescalating warfare between the nation states of Flow and Salsa, buttery smooth vocabulary, guiding town gently to be better with political promises and not military threats. You know. Diplomat stuff.

[quiet]

I mean they even just called out floo for being inflammatory and possibly killing relations with Salsa as a plausible scumread. They’re just very against war in a way that I appreciate (and think is towny) in the same way that I read your chaos as towny. Apparently my townreads get real mediocre titles this game.

[flow trap]

I've always seen being diplomatic as a scum tell

[Prism]

I can't tell if quiet is town or if he's intentionally exploiting my self-perception/knowledge of the type of player I want to be. I hate this game sometimes.

[Prism]

Is being dismissive really towny or NAI? There's a line between "the scumreads on me don't matter, I'll just hunt for scum" versus "the people who scumread me are stupid." I'm seeing the latter from Salsabil Faria.

I took a negative tone because I knew she was more prone to being baited into a fight as you call it, I wouldn't do the same to a calmer player who reasons it out rather than yelling with GIFs and emojis. Sal is baiting me too into a fight, either intentionally or not, by responding to a harsh and serious accusation flippantly. This only makes me want to pressure her further, which I did, consciously accepting the risk of growing bitterness. Is a dismissive and flippant attitude appropriate anymore?

I have to admit I didn't read Spartan/quiet/Prism because I didn't feel like doing it in the pre-hammer days and didn't have time to on the day of my final reads. At least in part I formed reads on other players first because of their lower post volume/length. I take responsibility for my laziness as a negative for the town. I'm still alive though, and can make reads for the rest of the day on the players I didn't read on Day 1.

I think so, but this draws much more from my chat mafia background than my forum one. The line of thinking is generally that someone being town is or will be selfapparent and they don't really have to defend themselves, especially if they feel the argument is a bad one.

It's not a great way to play, but I wouldn't call it scummy especially given how much several of us were annoyed with flow trap's early antics.

I don't follow for the town motivation behind trying to rile up Salsabil/being intentionally abrasive.

Finally, if you didn't read our posts...what is the deal with 1058? (See my response in 1070)

[quiet]

I can't tell if quiet is town or if he's intentionally exploiting my self-perception/knowledge of the type of player I want to be. I hate this game sometimes.

Eh, maybe try and judge my other read on Flow Chart the Chaos God vs. try to search in my read of you. Easier to determine if I'm being genuine or exploitative when directed at someone else. Besides calling it out the first time (which I am rather proud about, good read past quiet), noticing it or pressing further on it now is probably NAI, as you've made it clear from your response that it was a good read/is how you want to play.

I'm just havin a good time, makin nicknames for my town slots, building up the energy to try and scumhunt in this most towny of games. I think I'm starting to come to the frustrating reality that if Fred isn't scum like I'm scared about, then someone that gives me townvibes is scum, which means I need to hunt better. Mafia hard. Still feel good about you and Flow though.

I've always seen being diplomatic as a scum tell

Eh, maybe it is in some cases, but specifically here past-quiet was thinking about how they were trying to build town cohesion, setting in to try and get two players to resolve differences to move the game forward. This is substantially different from being agreeable, or conflict-adverse, which is a scum tell. In fact, it's putting yourself into the spotlight, and possibly into conflict, when what seems to me to be the +EV scum play is to let town (or any two people) fight and cause chaos. This is something Prism further alludes to in regard to their floo read, where they note that floo seems to be trying to pick a fight with Salsa, how such fights are -EV for town, cause a distracting noise, and possibly setup a miselim. I liked floo's response a fair amount, and am still thinking about it, but this has been my lecture for why diplomatic =/= scummy thank you very much.

[Prism]

I've always seen being diplomatic as a scum tell

I have very, very bad news for you about me as a player lmao

In general I don't think this tell is the worst-particularly if the person is overdoing it or not taking any real stances-but becoming more diplomatic and communicate effectively with others is literally

my entire purpose for playing the game of mafia.

I don't enjoy the puzzle or solving aspect at all.