Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[unwnd]

I don't think Norfolk is worth bussing based on his low equity. If I'm scum and my partner is slanking like Norfolk and just..not really posting/being townie, then I let town figure out what they're doing with him and then coordinate around it. I think talking about him fine, I think saying 'we should shoot Norfolk' is also fine. You'll probably see more scum not necessarily bussing but maybe slipping in the thought.

[SirCakez]

I'm not digging ScrewTheTells jumping in and claiming it's suspicious that i'm not posting when it's Sunday night in the UK.

Anyone suggesting a committee or that votes should decide the shot is a scum candidate for me.

The only confirmed town is Netflix, so Netflix should decide.

Another bad Norfolk post
They're basically saying don't scumhunt, it's netflix's job.

But you did.

Wat
I called the post scummy
That's scumhunting

[Dunnstral]

I don't like unwnd's posts regarding this at all. We're two days in the start of a two-week deadline with not even 20 pages in. It's super misguided and kinda scummy to be advocating for a shot here right now for slanker shot. We have no idea whether or not norfolk will start actually posting, but based on previous games he should regardless of alignment. If he's scum, we get oh look everyone thought he was scum but no associatives to speak of, and we potentially go right into one of us eating a night kill before any impact can be made, which means we're not too far ahead.

I think what you perceive to be scummy just turns into mutual disagreement. I find myself saying this more often but it does remain to be true. I think some things Norfolk has done is scummy, I pointed out one instance when I was explaining why I advocated his shot. I don't think

everyone

thinks he's scum actually, if I were accounting based on Ctrl+F who-mentioned-norfolk-as-good-shot it'd be like.. 3 people. First: What do I gain as scum to advocate a shot on someone like this so strongly. Secondly: You answered you didn't know how scum would be treating him so. Where does the connection lie with me being scummy/misguided, and does this equate to you believing he's town?

I'm also reading you as not wanting to put in big effort in this setup

Which is fair, the 14 day deadline is overkill too

[Dunnstral]

We're now at the point of the game where somebody is rabidly defending somebody who's barely posted

Like, can you really townread norfolk that hard? Why can't sircakez/unwnd be bussing? etc

[Dunnstral]

We're now at the point of the game where somebody is rabidly defending somebody who's barely posted

Like, can you really townread norfolk that hard? Why can't sircakez/unwnd be bussing? etc

[Imperium]

I don't like unwnd's posts regarding this at all. We're two days in the start of a two-week deadline with not even 20 pages in. It's super misguided and kinda scummy to be advocating for a shot here right now for slanker shot. We have no idea whether or not norfolk will start actually posting, but based on previous games he should regardless of alignment. If he's scum, we get oh look everyone thought he was scum but no associatives to speak of, and we potentially go right into one of us eating a night kill before any impact can be made, which means we're not too far ahead.

I think what you perceive to be scummy just turns into mutual disagreement. I find myself saying this more often but it does remain to be true. I think some things Norfolk has done is scummy, I pointed out one instance when I was explaining why I advocated his shot. I don't think

everyone

thinks he's scum actually, if I were accounting based on Ctrl+F who-mentioned-norfolk-as-good-shot it'd be like.. 3 people. First: What do I gain as scum to advocate a shot on someone like this so strongly. Secondly: You answered you didn't know how scum would be treating him so. Where does the connection lie with me being scummy/misguided, and does this equate to you believing he's town?

If he's town, you get rid of netflix and you get the day cut short handing the gun to someone who's already stated they lack confidence which is a win win for scum. Possibly going into night then shooting someone for less information again. I don't think you're approaching this game genuinely. Like at all at all.

I don't know norfolk's alignment.

[Imperium]

We're now at the point of the game where somebody is rabidly defending somebody who's barely posted

Like, can you really townread norfolk that hard? Why can't sircakez/unwnd be bussing? etc

I don't have a strong townread there. I do think it's entirely possible that cakez/unwnd could be bussing. It's what I'm trying to figure out.

[Dunnstral]

I think after last game saying 'just shoot norfolk' is very reasonable from unwnd

[Imperium]

I'm not digging ScrewTheTells jumping in and claiming it's suspicious that i'm not posting when it's Sunday night in the UK.

Anyone suggesting a committee or that votes should decide the shot is a scum candidate for me.

The only confirmed town is Netflix, so Netflix should decide.

Another bad Norfolk post
They're basically saying don't scumhunt, it's netflix's job.

But you did.

Wat
I called the post scummy
That's scumhunting

I don't like that you claimed that he was basically saying don't scum hunt there. I don't like your commentary there because it feels like a stretch designed to build a narrative rather than actually read the person.

[Imperium]

I think after last game saying 'just shoot norfolk' is very reasonable from unwnd

I don't!

[Dunnstral]

I think after last game saying 'just shoot norfolk' is very reasonable from unwnd

I don't!

We're thinking of different games

[unwnd]

I don't like unwnd's posts regarding this at all. We're two days in the start of a two-week deadline with not even 20 pages in. It's super misguided and kinda scummy to be advocating for a shot here right now for slanker shot. We have no idea whether or not norfolk will start actually posting, but based on previous games he should regardless of alignment. If he's scum, we get oh look everyone thought he was scum but no associatives to speak of, and we potentially go right into one of us eating a night kill before any impact can be made, which means we're not too far ahead.

I think what you perceive to be scummy just turns into mutual disagreement. I find myself saying this more often but it does remain to be true. I think some things Norfolk has done is scummy, I pointed out one instance when I was explaining why I advocated his shot. I don't think

everyone

thinks he's scum actually, if I were accounting based on Ctrl+F who-mentioned-norfolk-as-good-shot it'd be like.. 3 people. First: What do I gain as scum to advocate a shot on someone like this so strongly. Secondly: You answered you didn't know how scum would be treating him so. Where does the connection lie with me being scummy/misguided, and does this equate to you believing he's town?

If he's town, you get rid of netflix and you get the day cut short handing the gun to someone who's already stated they lack confidence which is a win win for scum. Possibly going into night then shooting someone for less information again. I don't think you're approaching this game genuinely. Like at all at all.

I don't know norfolk's alignment.

I considered the argument but I'm not the one who has the gun. Counterpoint: Norfolk is scum and then Netflix gets to shoot again. I get where you're both coming from though, you give some guy who isn't really playing/paying attention the option to kill someone and then before you know you're down 3 townies.

[Imperium]

Imperium's defense of Norfolk feels very unearned
I would not be surprised if Tammy is going in to help a scum buddy here

Yikes.

[unwnd]

I don't like unwnd's posts regarding this at all. We're two days in the start of a two-week deadline with not even 20 pages in. It's super misguided and kinda scummy to be advocating for a shot here right now for slanker shot. We have no idea whether or not norfolk will start actually posting, but based on previous games he should regardless of alignment. If he's scum, we get oh look everyone thought he was scum but no associatives to speak of, and we potentially go right into one of us eating a night kill before any impact can be made, which means we're not too far ahead.

I think what you perceive to be scummy just turns into mutual disagreement. I find myself saying this more often but it does remain to be true. I think some things Norfolk has done is scummy, I pointed out one instance when I was explaining why I advocated his shot. I don't think

everyone

thinks he's scum actually, if I were accounting based on Ctrl+F who-mentioned-norfolk-as-good-shot it'd be like.. 3 people. First: What do I gain as scum to advocate a shot on someone like this so strongly. Secondly: You answered you didn't know how scum would be treating him so. Where does the connection lie with me being scummy/misguided, and does this equate to you believing he's town?

I'm also reading you as not wanting to put in big effort in this setup

Which is fair, the 14 day deadline is overkill too

Actually this offends me, I'm trying much harder this game because it's at a readable pace and I don't have to skim to the point I get fucking bored. My reads feel much more concrete and these past towngames either one or two things have happened

1) I die literally n1 for some reason
2) Wait that's it

[Dunnstral]

I don't like unwnd's posts regarding this at all. We're two days in the start of a two-week deadline with not even 20 pages in. It's super misguided and kinda scummy to be advocating for a shot here right now for slanker shot. We have no idea whether or not norfolk will start actually posting, but based on previous games he should regardless of alignment. If he's scum, we get oh look everyone thought he was scum but no associatives to speak of, and we potentially go right into one of us eating a night kill before any impact can be made, which means we're not too far ahead.

I think what you perceive to be scummy just turns into mutual disagreement. I find myself saying this more often but it does remain to be true. I think some things Norfolk has done is scummy, I pointed out one instance when I was explaining why I advocated his shot. I don't think

everyone

thinks he's scum actually, if I were accounting based on Ctrl+F who-mentioned-norfolk-as-good-shot it'd be like.. 3 people. First: What do I gain as scum to advocate a shot on someone like this so strongly. Secondly: You answered you didn't know how scum would be treating him so. Where does the connection lie with me being scummy/misguided, and does this equate to you believing he's town?

I'm also reading you as not wanting to put in big effort in this setup

Which is fair, the 14 day deadline is overkill too

Actually this offends me, I'm trying much harder this game because it's at a readable pace and I don't have to skim to the point I get fucking bored. My reads feel much more concrete and these past towngames either one or two things have happened

1) I die literally n1 for some reason
2) Wait that's it

I meant from recent posts, not your iso, you shouldn't feel offended

[Dunnstral]

I wasn't under the impression that you had concrete reads though?

[Imperium]

I don't like unwnd's posts regarding this at all. We're two days in the start of a two-week deadline with not even 20 pages in. It's super misguided and kinda scummy to be advocating for a shot here right now for slanker shot. We have no idea whether or not norfolk will start actually posting, but based on previous games he should regardless of alignment. If he's scum, we get oh look everyone thought he was scum but no associatives to speak of, and we potentially go right into one of us eating a night kill before any impact can be made, which means we're not too far ahead.

I think what you perceive to be scummy just turns into mutual disagreement. I find myself saying this more often but it does remain to be true. I think some things Norfolk has done is scummy, I pointed out one instance when I was explaining why I advocated his shot. I don't think

everyone

thinks he's scum actually, if I were accounting based on Ctrl+F who-mentioned-norfolk-as-good-shot it'd be like.. 3 people. First: What do I gain as scum to advocate a shot on someone like this so strongly. Secondly: You answered you didn't know how scum would be treating him so. Where does the connection lie with me being scummy/misguided, and does this equate to you believing he's town?

If he's town, you get rid of netflix and you get the day cut short handing the gun to someone who's already stated they lack confidence which is a win win for scum. Possibly going into night then shooting someone for less information again. I don't think you're approaching this game genuinely. Like at all at all.

I don't know norfolk's alignment.

I considered the argument but I'm not the one who has the gun. Counterpoint: Norfolk is scum and then Netflix gets to shoot again. I get where you're both coming from though, you give some guy who isn't really playing/paying attention the option to kill someone and then before you know you're down 3 townies.

I already mentioned the counterpoint because yes, that's awesome if he's scum sort of, I'm not even interested in scum going out this soon because there's a whole lack of a lot of people posting. And I don't think that netflix is going to shoot this soon, so I'm not really concerned about that, I'm concerned that you're advocating it and writing him off as a lurker when the game just started. And it's very squicky coming from you because that's not the approach you've taken in the past couple games we've played together in which you've been quite a bit more conscientious in gaining reads.

[unwnd]

I wasn't under the impression that you had concrete reads though?

I actually feel pretty good about them yeah. At least in reference to D1. Past D1s I felt either tilted/annoyed because I was trying to read things I didn't actually want to. It's a moot point

[Imperium]

I don't like unwnd's posts regarding this at all. We're two days in the start of a two-week deadline with not even 20 pages in. It's super misguided and kinda scummy to be advocating for a shot here right now for slanker shot. We have no idea whether or not norfolk will start actually posting, but based on previous games he should regardless of alignment. If he's scum, we get oh look everyone thought he was scum but no associatives to speak of, and we potentially go right into one of us eating a night kill before any impact can be made, which means we're not too far ahead.

I think what you perceive to be scummy just turns into mutual disagreement. I find myself saying this more often but it does remain to be true. I think some things Norfolk has done is scummy, I pointed out one instance when I was explaining why I advocated his shot. I don't think

everyone

thinks he's scum actually, if I were accounting based on Ctrl+F who-mentioned-norfolk-as-good-shot it'd be like.. 3 people. First: What do I gain as scum to advocate a shot on someone like this so strongly. Secondly: You answered you didn't know how scum would be treating him so. Where does the connection lie with me being scummy/misguided, and does this equate to you believing he's town?

I'm also reading you as not wanting to put in big effort in this setup

Which is fair, the 14 day deadline is overkill too

Actually this offends me, I'm trying much harder this game because it's at a readable pace and I don't have to skim to the point I get fucking bored. My reads feel much more concrete and these past towngames either one or two things have happened

1) I die literally n1 for some reason
2) Wait that's it

But I died night one in both the games we played in, so if we go by past history you're safe :p

[unwnd]

I don't like unwnd's posts regarding this at all. We're two days in the start of a two-week deadline with not even 20 pages in. It's super misguided and kinda scummy to be advocating for a shot here right now for slanker shot. We have no idea whether or not norfolk will start actually posting, but based on previous games he should regardless of alignment. If he's scum, we get oh look everyone thought he was scum but no associatives to speak of, and we potentially go right into one of us eating a night kill before any impact can be made, which means we're not too far ahead.

I think what you perceive to be scummy just turns into mutual disagreement. I find myself saying this more often but it does remain to be true. I think some things Norfolk has done is scummy, I pointed out one instance when I was explaining why I advocated his shot. I don't think

everyone

thinks he's scum actually, if I were accounting based on Ctrl+F who-mentioned-norfolk-as-good-shot it'd be like.. 3 people. First: What do I gain as scum to advocate a shot on someone like this so strongly. Secondly: You answered you didn't know how scum would be treating him so. Where does the connection lie with me being scummy/misguided, and does this equate to you believing he's town?

If he's town, you get rid of netflix and you get the day cut short handing the gun to someone who's already stated they lack confidence which is a win win for scum. Possibly going into night then shooting someone for less information again. I don't think you're approaching this game genuinely. Like at all at all.

I don't know norfolk's alignment.

I considered the argument but I'm not the one who has the gun. Counterpoint: Norfolk is scum and then Netflix gets to shoot again. I get where you're both coming from though, you give some guy who isn't really playing/paying attention the option to kill someone and then before you know you're down 3 townies.

I already mentioned the counterpoint because yes, that's awesome if he's scum sort of, I'm not even interested in scum going out this soon because there's a whole lack of a lot of people posting. And I don't think that netflix is going to shoot this soon, so I'm not really concerned about that, I'm concerned that you're advocating it and writing him off as a lurker when the game just started. And it's very squicky coming from you because that's not the approach you've taken in the past couple games we've played together in which you've been quite a bit more conscientious in gaining reads.

This is a different game, I alluded to this when I was talking about my approach. Having a gun in play supersedes the need for a more diplomatic approach. I'm not condemning Norfolk however and saying he's 100% scum, It's more like I want to put the idea out there, then see where it goes. I didn't really have a read on you till now so I would say that's worth something.

[Dunnstral]

Correct me if I'm wrong; your reads are norfolk scuma and duchess scum?

[unwnd]

Yeah for now

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I might as well throw down the shot I'd take now, since I've gotten enough data around it by now that I don't care about holding it back anymore.

SirCakez. That is the one slot I actually scumread /confidently./ Lots of nulls, a handful of shaky scumreads, but this slot <insert godawful pun on taking the cake>. Imperium found one solid reason to scumread the slot already. There's also an event that won't convince anyone but me that happened as well. Since inevitably the question will be asked: Let us simply state that there is no way Cakez simply did not see my rant about voting, read posts 21 and 23 as demonstrable proof of this, and move on from there since it will change exactly no minds on alignment but my own.

That said, 23 is also an interesting post even separate from my personal approach to Mafia. Almost the entire gamestate has evolved, but Cakez is still, as a practical matter, living on page 1 and has made little or no effort to move beyond that.

[WhemeStar]

I am also fine with cakez shot

[SirCakez]

We're now at the point of the game where somebody is rabidly defending somebody who's barely posted

Like, can you really townread norfolk that hard? Why can't sircakez/unwnd be bussing? etc

This is why Imperium's defense is so bizarre to me.

I'm not digging ScrewTheTells jumping in and claiming it's suspicious that i'm not posting when it's Sunday night in the UK.

Anyone suggesting a committee or that votes should decide the shot is a scum candidate for me.

The only confirmed town is Netflix, so Netflix should decide.

Another bad Norfolk post
They're basically saying don't scumhunt, it's netflix's job.

But you did.

Wat
I called the post scummy
That's scumhunting

I don't like that you claimed that he was basically saying don't scum hunt there. I don't like your commentary there because it feels like a stretch designed to build a narrative rather than actually read the person.

Ok

I might as well throw down the shot I'd take now, since I've gotten enough data around it by now that I don't care about holding it back anymore.

SirCakez. That is the one slot I actually scumread /confidently./ Lots of nulls, a handful of shaky scumreads, but this slot <insert godawful pun on taking the cake>. Imperium found one solid reason to scumread the slot already. There's also an event that won't convince anyone but me that happened as well. Since inevitably the question will be asked: Let us simply state that there is no way Cakez simply did not see my rant about voting, read posts 21 and 23 as demonstrable proof of this, and move on from there since it will change exactly no minds on alignment but my own.

That said, 23 is also an interesting post even separate from my personal approach to Mafia. Almost the entire gamestate has evolved, but Cakez is still, as a practical matter, living on page 1 and has made little or no effort to move beyond that.

I don't want to argue with you but your massive walls were too much for me to read so I was skimming and probably missed it.
I don't care if you SR me but I think that of all things is a stupid reason to SR me. At least I can see Imperium's argument.