Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[unwnd]

I don't see it as demoralizing, I see it as comeuppance from people who had no right to say anything in the first place. Don't worry Dunn, you're not the only person getting my ire.

[Imperium]

Rockhopper, have you moved on from batching up the 4 easiest scumreads?

Also @ Norfolk: I love that you're reaching out to lurkers to get them to post more, BUT. I'd also like to see you talking to people that have a chance of talking back.

[Imperium]

I don't see it as demoralizing, I see it as comeuppance from people who had no right to say anything in the first place. Don't worry Dunn, you're not the only person getting my ire.

That makes more sense to me.

[WhemeStar]

Wheme, as far as I know /no one/ scumread Lotus? What is your deal, guy? I literally said /no one had hard reads on Lotus/. Stop the bullshit immediately, you will not get me tangled in my own words like you're trying to do.

HEY MAYBE THATS WHY IT WAS AN AWFUL SHOT

But bringing this up brings us no closer to finding scum, does it?

No but I feel like I have to when Im getting called scum for saying it was a bad shot.

[Dunnstral]

What did I do to get ire?

I'm not plunging the town into chaos, norfolk really needs to die here, pretty much everyone is scumreadng them or nullreading them, they might even be the godfather at this point but it's still worth shooting there honestly

[Dunnstral]

Why do I have "no right" to say anything?

Because I wasn't around for the ~30 minutes when they suddenly came in, announced their scumread, and then fired?

[Dunnstral]

Wheme, as far as I know /no one/ scumread Lotus? What is your deal, guy? I literally said /no one had hard reads on Lotus/. Stop the bullshit immediately, you will not get me tangled in my own words like you're trying to do.

HEY MAYBE THATS WHY IT WAS AN AWFUL SHOT

But bringing this up brings us no closer to finding scum, does it?

No but I feel like I have to when Im getting called scum for saying it was a bad shot.

Do you? I thought you wanted to be shot

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I don't like the demoralizing the town argument. It's a bit too dramatic for my taste.

It's something I rarely call out. But when I do, it's blatant. This is trying to create rifts (see how shade is being cast at you and unwnd), trying to call the town in general out as ineffective (insistence that the shot was bad on every level, Dunn asking me to explain the value of the shot in great detail as if I was the one who decided to make it), and generally geared at creating chaos where it does nothing but prevents town from rallying to do a better goddamn job next time. In fact, it does the opposite, because they propose nothing except that It Was Bad And Dumb And Maybe Scum Caused It.

PEDIT: Wheme, I said you get out of my townreads, not that you're scum. These are different things. Don't put words in my mouth, for fuck's sake.

[WhemeStar]

Wheme, as far as I know /no one/ scumread Lotus? What is your deal, guy? I literally said /no one had hard reads on Lotus/. Stop the bullshit immediately, you will not get me tangled in my own words like you're trying to do.

HEY MAYBE THATS WHY IT WAS AN AWFUL SHOT

But bringing this up brings us no closer to finding scum, does it?

No but I feel like I have to when Im getting called scum for saying it was a bad shot.

Do you? I thought you wanted to be shot

Im halfway memeing because purposely wanting to get shot still loses us a town and is anti-town.

[WhemeStar]

I don't like the demoralizing the town argument. It's a bit too dramatic for my taste.

It's something I rarely call out. But when I do, it's blatant. This is trying to create rifts (see how shade is being cast at you and unwnd), trying to call the town in general out as ineffective (insistence that the shot was bad on every level, Dunn asking me to explain the value of the shot in great detail as if I was the one who decided to make it), and generally geared at creating chaos where it does nothing but prevents town from rallying to do a better goddamn job next time. In fact, it does the opposite, because they propose nothing except that It Was Bad And Dumb And Maybe Scum Caused It.

PEDIT: Wheme, I said you get out of my townreads, not that you're scum. These are different things. Don't put words in my mouth, for fuck's sake.

How does someone move from a townread to a null read what

[SirCakez]

Lotus conftown makes me want to scumbin Duchess
Still reading

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Clearly by doing what you're doing, Wheme.

[Imperium]

I feel you are not getting what I'm saying.
In the content of the initial wall about Norfolk itself, the reasons you use to claim the scumreads are undeserved are fine (although obviously I disagree). I can see the logic and arguments.
My dislike of the wall doesn't come from the reasoning used, but the fence-sitty aspects of it. It doesn't make sense to me to go to the lengths you did in that wall just to declare them as a nullread anyways (as I've said many many times). More than once in the wall you basically go "well that could be town or it could be scum"

Now it's looking like a non-zero chance Norfolk is getting shot here. If he flips red then you can say you were never actually defending him. If he flips town then you can say you were correct with your defense and go after the people you were shading in the wall. Regardless of outcome, it sets you up for the future. And it doesn't feel like a genuine opinion, but an out.

See if you said that you disliked our position because we were fence-sitting, that would be an argument that I'd understand. It'd be an argument that would be completely wrong and would show a lack of understanding of Tammy's basic playstyle, but it'd be an argument that I'd understand.

I disagree that we're set up regardless of Norfolk flips. We defended Norfolk. Doesn't matter if we think he's town or null - we actively attempted to lower the probability that he got shot because we didn't like the way he approached them initially. We're gonna get some heat if he flips scum and I don't get how you think that us saying that he's null instead of town is going to reduce that heat.

And this is double confusing because you saw me defend the FUCK out of you in Xenoblade and later clarified that I didn't have a super strong townread on you, I just wanted to slow the day down. You SHOULD know that my style is often pumping the brakes on overzealous townies which means that I'm unafraid to defend people I don't really have reads on if I don't like how fast the day is going or I don't like what the pushes look like.

I don't expect you to get there on me this game because you're dug in deep but I do think this push on us looks town so I need you to do me a favor.
Remember this moment. When I am confirmed town endgame, remember that Tammy waffles in every fucking post she makes and remember that I am unafraid to defend people regardless of my read on them.

[WhemeStar]

There is no way mush is town here.

[SirCakez]

Frankly Mush' push on STT looks like OMGUS

[Imperium]

Because I fucking hate quicklynches. I play on this website for a slower pace - I play for the opportunity to form complete reads on people so a lot of my early game is centered around getting people to calm the fuck down and not kill people instantly. Remember that.

[Imperium]

There is no way mush is town here.

Why?

[SirCakez]

I had a response to STT but I deleted it it's whatever. I'm just going to be content to be completely misunderstood and or misrepped this game. Whatever. Either town is just missing every fucking point I make or scum is just trying to irritate the fuck out of me to tilt me, and you know what HAVE FUN.

STT - Think your paranoia on the meta thing is probably misplaced. I understand that I really do; that kinda thing always makes me think scum in the back of my mind, but after seeing someone be town almost every time that statement is made, I don't think it's really alignment indicative anymore.

Stop playing the victim and move on! Nobody wants to continue this argument but you won't fucking move on.

[Imperium]

I will say I don't agree with your point about how you wouldn't give the gun to Netflix and Chill as scum here. If you are worried about a slot being able to catch you, the best time possible to give it to them is at game start, because it gives them the widest possible range of targets to shoot and (like many have said) they will be out of the game fairly early, barring some miracle like three straight scum shots. If you don't give them the gun, there lies the potential for N&C to go to endgame and be able to shoot you when they wouldn't otherwise due to lack of other targets.

we didn't say this.
we'd 100% give them the gun.

[unwnd]

What did I do to get ire?

I'm not plunging the town into chaos,

norfolk really needs to die here, pretty much everyone is scumreadng them or nullreading them,

they might even be the godfather at this point but it's still worth shooting there honestly

Where was your input before RLotus was given the gun? My problem right now does not stem from reacting to the shot, rather the conclusions immediately drawn from them. Even if it's my own perspective, with a greenflip this early on I find myself not going into 'yeah shoot this guy next immediately woot woot just fire em off' I'd consider reeling it back in and determining where we apparently went wrong, yet you're already insistent on saying nonsense like Me+Imperium goading Netflix. I don't really understand where you got this point and you yourself have already agreed that scum probably didn't want anything to do with the shot. So...why are you suddenly so anxious?

[Imperium]

and i don't even know what that has to do with anything else or how you got this impression in the first place. @cakez

[SirCakez]

I don’t think I want to shoot Musha either.

Brian and I did discuss shooting Tammycho because it either flips them or gives the gun to two of the players I’d most want to have it

I’m currently wrestling with my stack rank not accounting for me getting the gun and that concerns me a ton.

Do you scum read me? I don't think I'm having a totally off game, but if you're thinking that perhaps I am.

Why are you so worried about Netflix and Chill SRing you? (I know they are dead now)
When they brought up potentially shooting you earlier you got worried too.

[Imperium]

I don’t think I want to shoot Musha either.

Brian and I did discuss shooting Tammycho because it either flips them or gives the gun to two of the players I’d most want to have it

I’m currently wrestling with my stack rank not accounting for me getting the gun and that concerns me a ton.

Do you scum read me? I don't think I'm having a totally off game, but if you're thinking that perhaps I am.

Why are you so worried about Netflix and Chill SRing you? (I know they are dead now)
When they brought up potentially shooting you earlier you got worried too.

STOP

MISREPPING

ME

[Dunnstral]

Where was your input before RLotus was given the gun?

That was my input

Like I said, I wasn't here for the ~30 minutes where the shot happened, and Netflix had made it clear that they didn't want to shoot Norfolk for various reasons. I happen to think those reasons are wrong but I'm not going to keep bringing it up

[Imperium]

Hmm. You seem sensitive to these sort of dynamics, Wheme; would you say that the conversation was being pushed forward more by Imperium or by Cakez? What I mean is, if one of them dropped off the face of the earth at random during that, which one would have kept posting longer, in your opinion?

When you're done with your interactions w/Wheme I'd love for you to explain what the purpose of this line of questioning is and what you got out of it.